122 replies to this topic

[Gaan Cathal]

Munkerz, on 17 March 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

I can't recall much "wrong" with Shogun 2 i regards to MP Vs. SP, however the new line of sight rules in Rome 2 I'm looking forward to checking out.

I find the lack of bunnyhopping and other twitch-skill deplorable.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Munkerz, on 17 March 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

After the lashing DMC received, I shouldn't think so.

I do believe that was "lashed" because it was hard and people dont like hard games because of :effort:

[Stoicblitzer]

Munkerz, on 17 March 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

I can't recall much "wrong" with Shogun 2 i regards to MP Vs. SP, however the new line of sight rules in Rome 2 I'm looking forward to checking out.

I only played MP on those games. There are many things "wrong." CA ignores the competitive community and balance is their last priority. ETW launched without a flat map. Just dumb **** like that that shows they don't care about multiplayer. EU3 is a much better single player game especially with mods.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

So is WoW a beta? They make more changes to their core systems than I've seen in MWO and they are released. Beta is ********
We all know it just some of us wear blinders.

[Munkerz]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 17 March 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

I do believe that was "lashed" because it was hard and people dont like hard games because of :effort:

It wasn't though. The basic game can be pretty easy, with unlockable challenge modes (These could get insane). The reason it got bombed on Metacritic was because of the character having black hair. That's really about it! Other claims to shortcomings of the game Vs. previous DMC titles are mostly BS. Yes, it's not a perfect game, but it sure as hell isn't a 4/10

[tuokaerf]

This is all pure speculation since I'm not privy to PGI/IGP's financial status, but I do know software development.

MWO is in open beta and charging for items because that it is what will enable them to stay afloat to create this game. Screaming about the definition of beta is stupid, PGI can call it whatever they want until the content they want is in to make it a full release. There's no bible that states what beta means.

It's also stupid to demonize PGI for not releasing content fast enough. They have been quite open with their roadmap and upcoming items and have demonstrably made changes to appease the userbase. I'd rather have things take a bit longer to be done properly than half-baked.

From what I can gather from the Dev Blogs, the current idea of MWO came to be in Winter of 2011. For the sake of argument, let's say that the game has been in development for almost two years. That's not a very long time to create the game based on the vision in the Dev Blog posts. DotA2 has been under development for 3 1/2 years and still isn't technically released. Valve can afford to take this sort of time because they have a number of income streams independent from DotA2. PGI and IGP are small shops, and it looks like MWO is about the only source of income for PGI at this point.

It's absolutely unrealistic to think they could create all of that content, get funding, and release a complete game in under two years to the scope they put forward and what we want as a community. We would be receiving a **** game. PGI is betting their company on this game, and using common sense, they wouldn't jeopardize their company by releasing a half baked game and milking it for a year while people leave.

As been brought up, yes they made $5mil or so off the Founder's program. While that may sound a lot, that's nothing. Let's assume PGI has around 100 employees with an average yearly salary of $50,000 for each (which is way low, good developers make twice that). Do the math and see how long that lasts. That's not even taking in account license fees, split to the publisher, etc.

So while I agree like everyone else that I'd like to see Community Warfare, more mechs, additional balancing, etc., screaming for it now is not productive. Read the Command Chair posts and listen to some of the NGNG podcasts with the dev team, none of these things are surprises to the devs and they've stated they're working on it. Also, chastising PGI for charging for an Open Beta is silly. If they didn't, we wouldn't have a MechWarrior game.

[Eddy Hawkins]

Thirdstar, on 16 March 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

Here's an excerpt from a Betawatch post on Massively.com

"Massively considers a game to be in open testing if it has open, public signups and plans for a server wipe before its official launch. Self-described "open beta" MMOs that have soft-launched with functioning real-money cash shops will not be listed."

somone correct me if i am mistaken, but (and it was a while back) PGI said that there would be no more server wipes. what you have now is what you will have when the game goes live.

doesnt that blow the OP argument right out of the water?

[Thirdstar]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 17 March 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

Then again there are games that when released are literally unfinished alpha builds that the developers even call "a mess of blown out code" that take the better part of a year just to get WORKING that JUST... WONT... DIE

IE: http://www.metacriti...lords-of-winter

It's funny you should mention SotS because I bought a while ago on a Steam sale (mostly because I love 4X) but I haven't gotten around to playing it because I hear its still quite broken.

[Krell Darkmoon]

hey OP

It's BETA

Get over it.

[Munkerz]

Eddy Hawkins, on 17 March 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

somone correct me if i am mistaken, but (and it was a while back) PGI said that there would be no more server wipes. what you have now is what you will have when the game goes live.

doesnt that blow the OP argument right out of the water?

Actually you're right about the wipes. What we have now is sticking, however it doesn't negate the OP's argument. The OP is actually using the no more wipes as a means to prove their point.
Massively claims that a game with no more wipes has launched, regardless of the official statement from the publisher.

The lines between what beta testing Vs. launch used to imply have changed immensely over the last decade. I feel like soft-launch could be appropriate, however testing (via playing) is also what we should be doing. Keeping an eye out for issues, bugs, balance, whatever, and bringing them to PGI's attention. What I see a bit too much of is whining rather than presenting feedback in a constructed format.

[POWR]

Hawkwings, on 16 March 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

I can release a ****** terrible game tomorrow that is obviously not complete, and I can call it a beta. Does that make it a beta?

Just because PGI calls this game a beta does not mean that it is.

Your post is generic showing in a lack of understanding.

[Thirdstar]

Eddy Hawkins, on 17 March 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

somone correct me if i am mistaken, but (and it was a while back) PGI said that there would be no more server wipes. what you have now is what you will have when the game goes live.

doesnt that blow the OP argument right out of the water?

Re-read the quoted text again and then read your reply. I'll wait.

[Precarious]

Thirdstar, on 16 March 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

Here's an excerpt from a Betawatch post on Massively.com

"Massively considers a game to be in open testing if it has open, public signups and plans for a server wipe before its official launch. Self-described "open beta" MMOs that have soft-launched with functioning real-money cash shops will not be listed."

http://massively.joy...arch-9-15-2013/

Now one, you'll note that Massively covers more than just MMOs.

Two, what I'm pointing out here is that Open Beta like we have here is perceived in a certain way. And perceptions are more important than consensus, in this case.

This is aimed at the people who use the 'It's a BETA' argument incorrectly. And by incorrectly I mean trotting it out in an effort to silence legitimate feedback. It happens and it happens OFTEN on these boards. Lets put an end to that please.

*Bolding last paragraph because apparently people have reading comprehension issues*

This is a factual statement with a defensibly rational basis.

[Sierra19]

Personally, I use the "It's Beta" argument, when I hear people gripe or whine about "Why isn't this really cool feature in the game yet, because it just sucks/is stupid/is boring right now." They are adding a map and a mech a month right now, as well as refining the game engine, fixing bugs/issues, discovering new ones (the whole LRM/SRM thing), and tweaking game balance issues. That in of itself, screams Beta, as the initial content the devs want in game are not present yet. And having an Open Beta, allows the servers to be tested under stress, and allows many more people into the game, all of whom can provide constructive criticism and feedback, which the devs can use to make adjustments to the game.

This game isn't even a year old yet, and there's a lot of work ahead, but without a playerbase, and a steady income stream, this game WILL fold. There are a whole host of F2P games that have folded in the last year, Warhammer Online-Wrath of Heroes and Bullet Run, just to name two off the top of my head, went belly up in just the last couple of months. I think this game has a large enough player base that that won't happen, but seriously, give the devs time to get all of the INITIAL content into the game, and make it stable and balanced, then we can worry about things like medals and awards, and other nice extras.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

It also ceases to be a beta if the companies in charge are already marketing the product as a primary goal. Here you've got hero variants. This is taking development time away from "finishing" the game in favor of "marketing" the game. This is what you'd do with a released product; make more DLC or things to sell. It's not what you'd do with a game mid development.

Beta tag here is basically just a shield. On the other hand, released and marketed or not, they're still telling you it isn't done, which it isn't. So either play it or don't. I hate seeing the "it's a beta" line drops as well, because that's not an excuse for anything. That's what they say when they have nothing better to say. It has replaced "YOUR MOM" lines. It's not finished, but it's not a "beta" either.

[Coolant]

hey, I'm all for constructive criticism, I've given plenty to date. However, that is just Massively's criteria. They are not the only source for MMO material and news. Do a search on MMO's...you'll find hundreds of sites. Just because 1 major site doesn't allow MWO to fit the bill of Open Beta doesn't mean it doesn't apply. Besides that, PGI has been clear THEY think it's Open Beta and have been clear about that.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Wrath of Heroes sunk because it was just a rip off of Warhammer Online; an already bad MMO. Why they didn't just convert Warhammer to F2P instead of bothering with this; I'll never know. But EA and Mythic still haven't figured out how to do anything right in the MMO or F2P market.

[Stoicblitzer]

Eddy Hawkins, on 17 March 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

somone correct me if i am mistaken, but (and it was a while back) PGI said that there would be no more server wipes. what you have now is what you will have when the game goes live.

you're mistaken. They will wipe stats when "achievements" are implemented. XP isn't wiped.

[Franchi]

Stoicblitzer, on 17 March 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

you're mistaken. They will wipe stats when "achievements" are implemented. XP isn't wiped.

Nor is Cbills nor is mechs owned, nor will MC be reset.

MWO has been soft launched the PGI forum defense force needs to get over and accept that.

[Riogar Daylighter]

I can only fathom this thread was made just to start an argument.