443 replies to this topic

[TheSteelRhino]

Its not so much that the dragon is terrible but that changes have hurt it

1) no true "grand dragon" variant with ppcs that ditches the ballistics
2). Gauss nerf. Putting a gauss in th arm is now a bit risky. Dragon arms are easy to target(now good piloting can help mitigate this)
3) canon missile hardpoint. U just aren't going to do much with missiles in the CT. Best option is 1n for this with 2 srm4


The dragon design is a fire support mech, not a brawler.

It does have speed though. Really u are best thinking of it as an overweight medium
It can be quite effective , but you have to use its speed to be effective. With that huge ct u wont last long as a brawler

[Victor Morson]

The poor (non-Flame) Dragon.

It's the worst 'mech even in TT. The only time it's ever caught a break was MW4 due to it's non-canon support of HGR and tripple RAC.

Personally I'd be in favor of unrestricting the engine even more, to really sell it as the "fast heavy." Maybe even give it a natural speed enhancement quirk.

The Flame rocks, by the way, but it's no CBT Dragon.

PS: Where's the Grand Dragon already? It's not like they'd need a new model.

[Artgathan]

OP here,

I just wanted to step in (21 pages later) and thank every one for their input. I'll throw a few of my observations out here:

• There was a lot more positive support for the Dragon after the missile nerf. I've noticed since that nerf that there have been more Dragons (and not just the trial Dragon) on the field. It's nice to see.
  
• All the people suggesting that I should "L2P" should "Learn 2 Read". I state in the opening paragraph of this thread that I don't pilot any of the Dragon variants.
  
• It's nice to see the passion from the Dragon supporters. I do agree that any mech can be frightening in the right hands.
  
• Personal anecdotes about one's piloting skill are not helpful when players claim to be amazing pilots. As anyone familiar with statistics will know, outliers exist and they skew data. Much more useful data comes from average pilots.

That said, I appreciate everyone taking the time to post their thoughts / opinions. Perhaps the Dragon will see continued use with the current state of missiles.

[General Taskeen]

Victor Morson, on 05 April 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

PS: Where's the Grand Dragon already? It's not like they'd need a new model.

I'd rather hope for a new model. All upgrade Mechs usually seem sleeker/upgraded from the art. Spider->Venom, Cataphract->Caesar, Dragon->Grand Dragon

Some of those could easily occupy the same variant tree. Early Dragon's and GD's are designated with the same DRG, and are the same tonnage. A Venom, however, is 35 tons.

[Ezekyle]

Somehow, I happened to play only the Dragon and ended up with this build:
DRG-5N Totally skipped the missiles and actually am really quite happy with this one at the moment... though I really am not a good pilot and still n00bish as well ^^

[Ryokens leap]

Ezekyle, on 05 April 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

Somehow, I happened to play only the Dragon and ended up with this build:
DRG-5N Totally skipped the missiles and actually am really quite happy with this one at the moment... though I really am not a good pilot and still n00bish as well ^^

Are you sure? Take a second look.

[valkyrie]

I'll make this quick and easy:

The Dragon sucks because its value as a design in TT is quickly running up to enemy 'Mechs while firing, then slamming them with physical attacks. Guess what's not in-game right now?

[Kaspirikay]

I don't know, guys. The community trial dragon is pretty kickass.

The only way to play a dragon is as a hit and run mech, it seems.

[Omega MK1]

First, i want to ask something, how many of the guys that have posted here actually use a dragon?

The dragon is not for brawling, its for support or group flanking.

I've been using dragons since i have joined the game, and i got to say that if you are willing to learn an entire new way of play, use a dragon, at the start, you will get killed alot, but when you start learning from it, it won't be so hard to play.

The dragon needs no changes, its good as it is, hardpoints are ok, ct is ok, and if you dont like it, use other mech.

-A dragon pilot

Edited by Omega MK1, 06 April 2013 - 07:03 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Too bad we can't stomp, punch, or grapple. Then the Dragon's limited hard points would be less of an issue. I also prefer the original Dragon's profile, with higher/prominent, shield like torso's.



I imagine they'll add the Grand Dragon at some point. Same tonnage, same name designation. It could be added to the current Dragon variant tree, and hopefully with a sleeker model.

Edited by General Taskeen, 05 April 2013 - 07:12 PM.

[Ezekyle]

Ryokens leap, on 05 April 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

Are you sure? Take a second look.

Meh, thats's why I talk subjunctive
Could be better if I'd go back to standard armo + some better engine maybe... changing the ballistic weapon also could improve things but I somehow do have the impression that cause more and more 'Mechs are employed with an anti-missile system, one single volley of LRM is rather futile + this 'Mech is not made for brawling... this is not the CBT TT, aye
Adding a SRM to better deal with those Lights that catch you when flanking around maybe also could do better...

Understand well why so many Jager'Mechs are seen and they do a damn well job... but I still like the Dragon too much

General Taskeen, on 05 April 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

I also prefer the original Dragon's profile, with higher/prominent, shield like torso's. [...] I imagine they'll add the Grand Dragon at some point.

I'm sceptic on this - the design's rather snout like head/chest already looks rather similar to the Grand Dragon I think

Edited by Ezekyle, 06 April 2013 - 05:42 AM.

[Aim-Bot]

Yes the dragons are a trash chassi and no they arent.
In this only case the hero mechs are good dragons while the standart mechs are bad.

The Flame is a very good Dragon since it can mount 4 large laser in the arms and reach 95 kph.

[Skunk Wolf]

valkyrie, on 05 April 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

I'll make this quick and easy:

The Dragon sucks because its value as a design in TT is quickly running up to enemy 'Mechs while firing, then slamming them with physical attacks. Guess what's not in-game right now?

Winner, winner! Chicken dinner!

This thing's for charging, it's got a ram prow for crying out loud. It's for running down anything lighter than itself and trashing it hand to hand. With XL's and a big autocanon, this is light and medium mech pain. Or for cleanup duty and flanking.

Once the game's complete people are going to be screaming to nerf it because it's always knocking mechs on their butt.

[Quirkyhndl]

I am currently upgrading a DRG-1C with:

Endo, Dbl HS x14, XL 300.
4x Med pulse
Lb 10X
SSRM

I certainly need to get the speed up to be the most effective, but I have thrashed several matches with this setup that allows me to almost constantly fire on any map and completely unload when I get setup for a good shot.

I usually hit top 3 in damage in pugs alone and with 4mans, I can play decoy moderately well, assist scouts, and flank on most maps.

In the few 8 mans I have been in I have seen what others have said about the Dragon's inherent weaknesses. However, a good pilot and a good team can still put it to good use.

Personally I am an old school D&D guy so I enjoy playing what feels cool to me rather than what is calculated as best probability for potential. I'd rather have fun than feel like a combat robot.

p.s. as for a light/med scarecrow, I have consistently taken on heavy and assault mechs one on one and done more than fine.

Edited by Quirkyhndl, 06 April 2013 - 06:37 AM.

[Ryokens leap]

Ezekyle, on 06 April 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

Meh, thats's why I talk subjunctive
Could be better if I'd go back to standard armo + some better engine maybe... changing the ballistic weapon also could improve things but I somehow do have the impression that cause more and more 'Mechs are employed with an anti-missile system, one single volley of LRM is rather futile + this 'Mech is not made for brawling... this is not the CBT TT, aye
Adding a SRM to better deal with those Lights that catch you when flanking around maybe also could do better...

Understand well why so many Jager'Mechs are seen and they do a damn well job... but I still like the Dragon too much


Bro, AMS is useless, lrm 10 is useless, all the ammo is in the torsos. That's 3 glaring problems right there. Strip that thing down and start over.


I'm sceptic on this - the design's rather snout like head/chest already looks rather similar to the Grand Dragon I think

[Jazzbandit1313]

I wanted to love the dragon, i really did. I had played a few trial builds in the past and i thought i might try one out myself. Purchased the DRG-1C variant, slapped FF and endo steel on. The only thing i liked about this mech was the speed for a heavy. Everything else sucked. Soooo easy to get cored early on because your CT is almost begging to take AC rounds and missles straight on. It's like the biggest target on any mech besides an atlases CT, so pretty much a walking target. And people tell me, "turn the ct away for missles and such" but even if you turn sideways, its still jutting out a lot, making for easy hits no matter what direction you're facing, and back armor is weak.

On top of that, as everyone else has been saying the hardpoints suck. They just plain suck. it's little stubby arms are no place for balistics if you ask me. I wish there was a non-hero variant that allowed a balistic on the CT shoulder...now that would be a dragon worth playing. Plus there just aint enough space for a good set of weapons like any other heavy has. The best loadout i ever tried was 2 ERPPC's in the arm for some long range sniping, but trying to make the dragon like a K2 was just a mistake, like buying the dragon in the first place.

overall the dragon is an o.k. mech for people who dont like to brawl. it's meant for people who like to sit back and cause a little damage from time to time, constantly pecking at the enemies armor, but never get close or deal any real damage like a true heavy mech.

So, after 2 weeks of using the dragon, took off my precious ER PPCs, and sold the darn thing to free up space in my mech bay. Best decision ill make in MWO.

[SilentWolff]

I keep saying it, but here's a good post by the ELP leader, Protection, on some good Dragon builds. Notice he mentions our guild specifically when discussing the last build. That's because we **** with Dragons. Good to see the last Tourney winners also point out that the Dragons can be used quite effectively in competitive games by players who know what they are doing.

Protection, on 25 March 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

Honestly, you are about as well optimized as you are ever going to be on that thing without giving up the ERPPC.

My only suggestion would be to strip that pointless left arm bare, and put more onto the legs. Maybe even some head armour to keep the leg armour maxed. Losing an empty arm is trivial, and almost no one gets headcapped in a Spider, but getting legged usually means your have seconds left to live.




Couple of options. Flame is the best of the Dragons, arguably (although it is still a Dragon)

Slower Brawler: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b97f94e2f89475a
I like this one because it's one of the unique things you can do with the Flame that you cannot with other Dragons.

Gotta Go Fast: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...94977c15b67ebea
If you really want that top speed, and considering the missile nerf, it's not a terrible idea. Although it is expensive.

Sniper Dragon: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...af99ee23ab4735e
This is actually a really good design we've seen Karian Empire using well. I will warn you that this is not at all an easy build to learn or master, but if you can get good with it, it can be very effective.

[Grey Rabbit]

Jazzbandit1313, on 06 April 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

overall the dragon is an o.k. mech for people who dont like to brawl. it's meant for people who like to sit back and cause a little damage from time to time, constantly pecking at the enemies armor, but never get close or deal any real damage like a true heavy mech.

It's true that you won't be a brawler. I used to pilot dragons almost exclusively and it's not about the amount of damage, it's about speed and tactics on the field. You can stall a base cap like no other in this mech. You can reinforce anywhere on the battle line that you're needed quickly. When you flank the enemy, you can take the beating while your team crests the hill hit their backs. You're role isn't simply to take dudes out, you turn the tides in other ways.

Edited by Grey Rabbit, 06 April 2013 - 09:37 AM.

[Ezekyle]

Ryokens leap, on 06 April 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

Bro, AMS is useless, lrm 10 is useless, all the ammo is in the torsos. That's 3 glaring problems right there. Strip that thing down and start over.

Defintely useless when it' some light 'Mech fething you up with SRM, aye.
This is a build I copied from a post in Smurfy's forum:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...85f8f3eb32ecb2b
=> http://www.mechspecs...G-5N-Tenderizer

The before mentioned Flame as a quadruple PPC party cannon or the Gauss variant definitely look interesting. Big problem of the Dragon is, as already was mentioned, you cannot shoulder mount weapons meaning you have to walk from frontal cover - like the ridges in Tourmaline map at point Theta... think it's quite an advantage for a Jager Mech with it's high mount points to shoot from cover without presenting itself too much. Or maybe I'm totally wrong - as said, though I created my account already some days ago it's by now only a week I'm actually playing the game... and as my kill/death balance says, there's still a damn lot for me to learn
A fast and well armoured Dragon as a flanker like Grey Rabbit described is it's role as I see it but here it all depends on communication in the group. Maybe things improve if I should be able to find a pack of hunters to join with TS on and stuff.
But for now I think I'll invest some MC in buying a Dragon Flame

Edited by Ezekyle, 07 April 2013 - 05:31 AM.

[Spinning Burr]

Why is the Dragon terrible? Because Charles Barkley said so.