109 replies to this topic

[errorabbit]

So far, I've always played the Mechwarrior games with keyboard and mouse, but this time I think I'll finally get a joystick, just for immersion.
Maybe it's even better, who knows.

I also pondered just getting a mouse with tons of buttons instead.
As for performance for aiming... I don't know. Mouse essentially tracks position, meaning how fast you move the mouse controls how fast you turn/move your crosshairs, while with a joystick, how far you push/pull the stick determines how fast the movement is. Judging from that, logically it should be much easier to put your cursor/crosshair on a static position quickly... while keeping up a certain speed/rate of turning would be much harder than it is with the joystick... just keep it steady.
I don't know which of the two will have the advantage. But as others say before, you won't be able to pull off those immediate turns as in FPSs, so maybe leading/ following a moving target becomes more important. The Joystick should give you an edge there, theoretically. But if you never use a joystick, you're probably just simply more trained to use a mouse.

[Aelos03]

MadBoris, on 31 May 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

I used to do it in quake and UT, very fast games. Head shots! GIBS! Sidewinder Joystick! Damn Right!

It's what you play with and practice with. Obviously people often use a mouse hours every day, hence SKILL.

15 years ago people thought playing an FPS with a game controller was ludicrous, now it's just accepted, people practiced, started actually playing on a controller, then eventually learning on a controller before playing with a mouse, making the mouse foreign to them.

For FPS games mouse is best, controllers just have slow reaction time compared to mouse+keyboard setup, and i still think playing FPS game with controller is "ludicrous"

[NWHHarrier]

I'm hoping that my hotas setup will be superior...I also have one of those Belkin hand held gamer key pad things I wanna try to shoehorn in there.

Btw anyone else rocking the saitek x45? used mine for IL2 a long ways back, really hope it's up to the task in MWO

[Aelos03]

NWHHarrier, on 31 May 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

I'm hoping that my hotas setup will be superior...I also have one of those Belkin hand held gamer key pad things I wanna try to shoehorn in there.

Btw anyone else rocking the saitek x45? used mine for IL2 a long ways back, really hope it's up to the task in MWO

well it won't be superior because it wont add any advantage(expect awesome feeling )

[Guru Zeb]

Sporklift, on 31 May 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

I play with a joystick and a mouse.

THIS !!!!!!!!!
Best of both worlds ........... To be more specific.

I play mechwarrior with one of my many HOTAS's Throttles ( probs use my CH Pro Throttle for MWO maybe my Saitek x45 as it has analogue paddles for left and right) for walking speed, turning, and
jumping, then use my mouse for aiming.
Don't bother with the actual 'stick' just use the Throttle and mouse combo, the best controls for MW period.
Same setups as back the great old days of MERCS ....................

Oh yeah whats with all the crazies talking about input method affecting turning and torso speed?!?!?!?
Every mechwarrior with a clue should know both turning and torso speed are a function of your mech chassis ......... not what input method you choose. Am pretty sure devs have more than enough of a clue to not start messing with sacred scripture .......

Edited by Guru Zeb, 31 May 2012 - 05:08 PM.

[Daemoro]

JazzySteel, on 31 May 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

Anybody have ideas or reccomendations for a Joystick with a low profile, or a way I could mount them lower (say chair-height instead of desk-height)

Did you consider putting a second chair in front of your computer and setting your joystick on that? That would be "chair height"

A little more on the serious side a small end table might do the trick and look a little less corny than a chair.

I'm considering making a small table for my joystick to the left of my keyboard if I like the feel of joystick/tracball.

[FactorlanP]

Buddahcjcc, on 31 May 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

I mean holy crap if I could figure out a way to use a pedal setup for the throttle Id be golden lol

I plan on using my Saitek pedals for turning the legs, joystick to control left/right up/down on the torso, and my throttle to control throttle. If the key mapping allows it, I may experiment with setting the toe brake function on one side of my pedals to throw the Mech into reverse. My HOTAS set-up has plenty of buttons and switches, so I shouldn't need to touch the keyboard for anything but text chat.

I just hope the game is designed to allow a lot of key mapping creativity without having to rely on stick software.

Edited by FactorlanP, 31 May 2012 - 05:17 PM.

[Guru Zeb]

Buddahcjcc, on 31 May 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

I mean holy crap if I could figure out a way to use a pedal setup for the throttle Id be golden lol

Bro pedals should be no more diffiucult to get working than any HOTAS ..... they are just an extention of a HOTAS system after all.
Only reason i never tried a set is i could never justify the expense, so jsut used throttle buttons/paddles.

But pedals should be easy to setup ........ if you have a set.

Oh yeah i know ( used to know) a guy who used a steering wheel setup for turning with mouse for aim ........... guy was unstoppable in a Circle of Death scenario ... claimed steering wheel gave more subtle steering+speed control.

[Guru Zeb]

TOTALLY OT

Wow its good to see so many warriors reping for the Merc units avatars .......... ah its a good life for a freeborn.
Never fancied being fathered by or fathering via a test tube myself ...... in such matters manual and old skool is
the better methinks

[0 Tharn 0]

you guys ever consider using a joystick with lots of buttons and a track ball mouse? I used to use a j/stick trackball system called a pantherxl- it was fantastic for mech games.
im considering using a seperate trackball to emulate what the panther did.

[Dragon Lady]

JazzySteel, on 31 May 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

Maybe someone could help me out. I like the feel of a Joystick, but It feels awkward for me not to have my forearm parallel to the ground. The grip on most Joysticks is just too high.

Anybody have ideas or reccomendations for a Joystick with a low profile, or a way I could mount them lower (say chair-height instead of desk-height)

Much appreciated.

My desk includes a keyboard drawer, so I've never had those issues.

But since you do, maybe you should try something like this:


It's an ergonomic keyboard tray that attaches directly to your chair's arms. It should put everything at a good level.

Personally, I'd love to get something like this:



But that's a little out of my price range... not to mention the space it would require

[Captain Stern]

In the old games....Joystick was ALL. If configured right, you could move,target and shoot all at the same time. But I always felt that snipers would enjoy the mouse more

[NightbladeXX]

I have a hard time thinking that I can play this using a keyboard/mouse, just because of the old MechWarrior games and using a joystick/throttle combo for those ... but times have changed since the old MW2-4 days and mouse technologies have vastly improved since MW4

I loved my old CH Flightstick Pro / Throttle combo gave a huge immersion bonus compared to a keyboard/mouse but I cant really use them anymore as they are old 15 pin systems and I don't know if an USB adapter would be worth it, plus I don't know if they work or if I can still find them.

Looking at the current crop of joysticks available, I see CH still makes their old products and other like Saitek have some nice stick/throttle combos but are they as advanced as my Razer BlackWidow/Nostromo/Deathadder would be? I don't know and Im not sure if I want to shell out $200 for a CH Fighterstick/Throttle Pro combo since it doesnt seem to me that anything has improved tech wise.

Then again it's hard for me to imagine NOT using a joystick/throttle combo for MWO, ugh

[Belq]

I'm definitely playing with a Joystick/Throttle/Pedals combination strictly for the immersion factor. Controlling the torso twist with the rudder pedals really adds a lot to mech games.

That being said, I've never played mech games with a mouse and I'm very curious how a mouse would work for constant turning input? With a joystick you're constantly giving input based on the degree you move the stick. How does that work with the mouse? Do you constantly have to keep pushing the mouse one direction?

Watching the MWO videos released, the mech seems to move up and down based on leg movement, but the targeting reticule seems to automatically adjust for that. I'm wondering if a mouse may be more sensitive because of that.

[Heatsink Junkie]

Dragon Lady, on 31 May 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

A mouse and a keyboard is no substitute for a good HOTAS setup.

HOTAS stands for Hands on Throttle and Stick. A well setup HOTAS means you never have to take your hands off your throttle and joystick. Every single control you'll ever need will be at your fingertips on a trigger or hat switch. My old HOTAS (which needs a serial port... which my current PC doesn't have ) had 6 triggers, 2 4-way hats, and one 8-way hats (useful for looking around the cockpit) on the joystick. That gave me 14 "keys" I could press. My throttle had four triggers and four 4-way hats. That gave me 20 "keys" I could press. If I mapped one pink trigger to shift key, and the other pinky trigger to the control key, the total number of functions I could control, without ever taking my hands off my controls, was 128 (32 "keys" plus shift+, control+, and shift+control+ combos), plus the joystick and throttle's primary purpose, and the free-look 8-way hat. Use a ring finger trigger for the alt-key, and you expand your total potential functions to a mind blowing 248 (31 "keys" plus shift+, control+, alt+, shift+control+, shift+alt+, control+alt, and shift+control+alt+ combos).

A mouse is meant to be used one handed. A keyboard is meant to be used two handed. You're one hand short to maximize these controls. Chances are your mouse has three buttons plus the scroll wheel. And your keyboard (being one handed), only has access to 27 keys... and I'm being generous here, since some keys are awkward to use without moving your hand too far from "home row". Given that your pinky controls both control and shift, plus another 7 buttons, you can control 76 functions, plus the mouse's primary function and the scroll wheel. And you can't use shift/control/alt combos without either removing your left hand from home row, or your right hand from the mouse... which could hurt your response time.

There's another advantage to HOTAS beyond the sheer number of potential functions at your fingertips (how many do you need, anyways?) You can map game controls to all control+ or alt+ combinations, and use your keyboard to chat.

The only advantage a mouse/keyboard setup has over a HOTAS is the precision of the mouse for aiming while sniping And in this game, I doubt that'll come up all that often (and if it does, the mouse is still available.)

As much I I'd love to agree with you and join you in the wonderful land of immersion, I cant for the life of me find a cheap throttle and hopefully petals, and that's another point, if this more expensive setup really has that much off an advantage, doesn't that make the game pay to win, in a way?

[Aelos03]

Belq, on 01 June 2012 - 05:41 AM, said:

I'm definitely playing with a Joystick/Throttle/Pedals combination strictly for the immersion factor. Controlling the torso twist with the rudder pedals really adds a lot to mech games.

That being said, I've never played mech games with a mouse and I'm very curious how a mouse would work for constant turning input? With a joystick you're constantly giving input based on the degree you move the stick. How does that work with the mouse? Do you constantly have to keep pushing the mouse one direction?

Watching the MWO videos released, the mech seems to move up and down based on leg movement, but the targeting reticule seems to automatically adjust for that. I'm wondering if a mouse may be more sensitive because of that.

simple with mouse you control arms reticle when you move it to the right/up/down/left torso will follow

Edited by Aelos03, 01 June 2012 - 06:09 AM.

[Thorqemada]

So far the game is probably build and adjusted for Mouse+Keyboard users.
The most pleasant way would be a good Joysticks+Pedals combination but that is a matter of cost if they offer one and i would wait until it gets reviews about the quality and how exact it plays - it would enhance the immersion for sure a big time.
I also thought about a Joystick+Mouse combination if Joystick only sucks but that is less immersive and i could simply stay with Keyboard+Mouse.

My guess is that Keyboard+Mouse is initially far more tested and adjusted to feel right and Joystick Users will only catch up after quite a time.

[Ulric Kell]

All depends on what you are used to. Traditionally, joysticks were used for these types of games because turning took time. If torso twist in MWO is as fast as an FPS, I would say the benefit goes slightly to the mouse but I've joystick users with monster skills and wouldn't be surprised if they surpassed many of the Mouse users.

[NightbladeXX]

i'd like to find a nice set of pedals i keep breaking the darn things or they're too narrow for me

[CodeManB915]

I've always had a problem playing MechWarrior games with a keyboard and mouse. My joystick just feels more proper, and my aim is always better because of how my joystick is calibrated and set up in my current settings. If I have to use a mouse I will, but I really want to use a joystick. After all, the game is a "piloting" game, so thus it's better to play a piloting game with a joystick right?

I feel more in control and more "in tune" with where my torso twist and where my mech is in general when playing with the Joystick.