109 replies to this topic

[JazzySteel]

I think the mouse would be nice to use with mechs that have Arm actuators, you can use them to lead fast mechs and make precision shots. But mechs without arms (IE, Jenner and Catap) would move more smoothly with a joystick.

[MadBoris]

I was thinking how cool it would be to have my mouse available to the left hand, just to use as a pilot free look around the cockpit and windows. But the primary X,Y,Z with the right hand using the joystick.

Although everyone will be more accurate with a mouse because it's what we predominantly use.
With one hand on the joystick I control X,Y,Z looking, turning and twisting and have access to 4 weapon configs, pretty good for one hand.

Just being able to freelook as the pilot in the mech with the mouse would be a cool addition IMO.

Edited by MadBoris, 31 May 2012 - 02:40 PM.

[Frostiken]

Steel Prophet, on 31 May 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

It depends on what you are used to. It's that simple.

You might as well be arguing that an Xbox controller will be just as good for Unreal Tournament.

No, joystick aiming is suicide. You *will* be worse off for it. Not only does it require much more muscle control and movement to aim finely, but requires more overall movement. Arm fatigue will also be a factor.

I will be playing mouse / keyboard simply because that's the best setup. IF the game supports it, which I doubt, I will be playing Joystick / Keyboard. The joystick is in my left hand. Tilting left or right gives me analog control over the mech's turning. The throttle functions by being exactly tied to forward tilt. Let go of stick, throttle goes neutral. Move stick forward 80%, throttle goes to 80%. Slam it backwards, goes to -100%.

This is the best overall setup as you gain much more than you lose. Digital-only keyboard makes turning rough and throttle control requires too much attention. Additionally, with like 30-some buttons on my joystick, all commands are in reach of my left hand, whereas on the keyboard I will inevitably have to move my hand to hit more keys.

However, because turning and speed control are both 'not important', I can leave this to my off-hand.

The right hand, however, will always be a mouse for torso turning and aiming. You cannot beat the mouse.

[Solidussnake]

I've played mouse and keyboard style ever since Mechwarrior 2 31st century combat.

[CW Roy]

A mouse and keyboard works so much better for MechWarrior, or any game for that matter.

[AirCooled]

Personally, I can't wait to drag out my Saitek joystick and throttle control. I share a desk with my wife and I can already see it's going to be like when you take your seat on a commercial jet. You need to establish dominance of the arm rests early in the flight. They will take their place on the desk surface and remain. She will just need to accomodate the change. For me the joystick is easier to memorize the controls than a keyboard. All the controls are where they make sense to you. I really don't like having to look down at the keyboard to find the F key when I'm overheating and going critical. I agree, it is what you're used to though. There were alot of great players out there that never used a joystick and weren't at any disadvantage.

[Bulslayer85]

Personally i go keyboard + Joystick with most of the core functions mapped to the joy but all the handy advanced functions readily available on the keyboard. Flush coolant isn't something you should use regularly but it has its important moments.

[sumdumfu]

as a long time gamer who's freely used both, i have to say that joysticks have the advantage in sims for multiple reasons.

1) you can't effectively sustain a turn with a mouse. imagine trying to do an immelman with a mouse/kb. doable (with extreme dexterity) but nowhere near as simple and easy as with joystick. move mouse/pick up and move back/move mouse. not very accurate, especially if this game controls anything like MW4 where rotation rate and acceleration were both capped as they should be. i would frankly be rather annoyed if I could wrist-flick a 180 degree turn in a tenth of a second like i could in quake.

kb would also be problematic because since it's completely digital (on/off), you get one turn rate or nothing. no degrees of control like an analogue device, thus again losing accuracy.

2) because of the cap on rotational acceleration, it will be very similar to the effect of mouse lag, so even when making minute movements the reticule will not mirror your mouse precisely. if you want to keep your sights on a target moving at a relatively constant rate across you, joystick is surely the way to go; you'll want to throw your mouse out the window when you hit the edge of your mousepad and have to lift up and move back. maybe you've gotten good at it, but to my rational mind that's just an unnecessary headache that's easily solved by using the correct tools.

i tried using both in MW4:Mercs but i found that joystick was just the correct tool for the job. if you ask me anybody that insists on using mouse/kb for this game either never played a sim game or is just stubborn beyond belief.

[Alakarr]

I used a joystick for all the other MW games I've played. I have a Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS and after reading this thread, loaded up MW4: Mercenaries and tried it with the Thrustmaster and mouse and n52. If the control system for MWO is similar, the mouse and n52 will be much easier to use then the stick. Keeping weapons on target while maneuvering was way easier with the mouse setup. The dedicated throttle was the only thing that felt better with the stick.

Will definitely need to try both when the game comes out.

[Frostiken]

sumdumfu, on 31 May 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

if you ask me anybody that insists on using mouse/kb for this game either never played a sim game or is just stubborn beyond belief.

This is going to **** off a lot of people, but the honest to god truth is that Mechwharrior really isn't a sim game. It's not as complex as people make it out to be. The most confusing aspect of it is how many weapons there are and what they all do, as well as the staggering number of mechs you encounter.

Everything else is accomplished by a single button push. R to turn off radar. C to **** coolant everywhere. E to select nearest enemy.

Until I have a clickable cockpit and there are complete avionics, radar modes, advanced damage modeling, etc, at best it's a detailed tank game.

As a DCS: A-10C vet, stop calling Mechwarrior a "sim". It isn't.

Edited by Frostiken, 31 May 2012 - 03:03 PM.

[Jaq Savage]

If this game plays anything like any of the previous Mechwarrior games or like the previous MPBT games, a joystick will be superior and this is why. Piloting a mech is very reactive. I have always found that I could react alot quicker when I had all of the necessary buttons at my fingertips. Not to mention it's a whole lot easier to torso twist while turning for example with a joystick. It's much much quicker then a mouse and keyboard. Not to mention while you are doing other things you can still aim and fire relatively quick and it's easier to switch firing tics as well. Everything is just so much faster with a joystick.

[Frostiken]

Quote

Everything is just so much faster with a joystick.

I dare you to navigate windows by typing your joystick to the mouse, and using that.

You will get nothing done quicker. You cannot effectively aim finely with a joystic. When you do it, you require a HUGE amount of effort and muscle control to do it.

[IwanN]

Keyboard + Mouse win.
Good luck doing this with a pad

Edited by IwanN, 31 May 2012 - 03:07 PM.

[Roland]

Quote

No, joystick aiming is suicide. You *will* be worse off for it. Not only does it require much more muscle control and movement to aim finely, but requires more overall movement. Arm fatigue will also be a factor.

Logic would compel me to agree, but at the same time one of the best pilots I ever saw play mechwarrior always played with a joystick. Fury used to use the old force feedback sidewinders, and there was never a time where he had any problem pulling off crazy shots.

For my personal experience, I always preferred a mouse... but for some folks, the joystick definitely works.

EDIT:
One thing that I think makes the joystick work in this game compared to other shooters.... You can't just spin as fast as you want to anyway. Your turning speed and torso twist are limited by the mech chassis. So, some of the normal benefit that you get in most FPS from a mouse is gone right off the bat.

Edited by Roland, 31 May 2012 - 03:10 PM.

[GrizzlyViking]

Vampyr, on 31 May 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

Hi All,

Based on the in-game footage we have seen, do you think mouse + keyboard players will have an advantage over joystick players?

Why or why not? Interested in hearing peoples thoughts.

Thank you.

I played MW3 key and mouse and MW4 joystick. Without playing MWO it is only speculation to say which is more accurate. Looking at screen shots really does not provide enough data to come to a good conclusion regarding accuracy. I will use joystick hands down. With many years of experience in MW4 I can say that joystick players far and away were better than key and mouse. There were at least 10:1, maybe more, joystick to key and mouse players in MW4 and it was due to the superiority of the joystick to manage all of the Mech's functions better. I cannot say that MWO will be set up the same way without having played it, but I do not expect any major functional differences in how Mechs are controlled as compared to MW4. So, if they are quite similar, then joystick is the way to go.

I will also add this...for those that have never played a PC based MechWarrior game, it is not like other games where you can just do whatever the heck you want with the reticle. It was like that in MW3, but not in MW4. In MW4 you couldn't just put your reticle anywhere you could see. It's doesn't work like that. It's more like unto riding in a tank or flying an airplane where you have to position the unit in the proper position before the target can be acquired. Targeting is limited by the capabilities of the unit you are piloting. The reticle will come around at the speed of the torso twist and is limited to the number of degrees the torso can move right to left and the speed of the twist. Some Mech have a greater twist range than others. Usually Assaults have much more restricted torso twist range and lights greater range. Mainly people need to understand this is not like other games you have played out there and the mechanics are much different than most. At the end of the day most of those people that start this game with key and mouse either quit or buy a joystick. That's the gist of it.

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 31 May 2012 - 03:37 PM.

[sumdumfu]

IwanN, on 31 May 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

Keyboard + Mouse win.
Good luck doing this with a pad

i see you've never played a mech game before. doing that in a mech is impossible. try learning a thing or two about this game before acting like yours is the last opinion.

[sumdumfu]

Roland, on 31 May 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

Logic would compel me to agree, but at the same time one of the best pilots I ever saw play mechwarrior always played with a joystick. Fury used to use the old force feedback sidewinders, and there was never a time where he had any problem pulling off crazy shots.

For my personal experience, I always preferred a mouse... but for some folks, the joystick definitely works.

EDIT:
One thing that I think makes the joystick work in this game compared to other shooters.... You can't just spin as fast as you want to anyway. Your turning speed and torso twist are limited by the mech chassis. So, some of the normal benefit that you get in most FPS from a mouse is gone right off the bat.

actually it doesn't require more motor control, but less. in order to aim with a mouse you have to constantly move it, and at as constant a rate as possible. this will be less constant than just moving a stick a half inch to the side and holding it there. after that making fine adjustments with the stick is as simple as minute movements to vary the rate of turn. i've always found this much easier than having to change my mouse movement rate from say 1 in./sec to .95 in./sec. to adjust to a moving target. not a problem when you have unlimited aiming speed, but as in my post above, the limit rotation speed and acceleration of a mech body will favor joysticks.

Edited by sumdumfu, 31 May 2012 - 03:21 PM.

[Noiseyboy88]

i would love to use my saitek x52 for torso and throttle and steering and have arm weapons ran by my trackir 5. would be the best option for me.

[MadBoris]

I used to gib people with a sidewinder all the time in super fast fps's, people wouldn't believe it.

The problem is we hardly use joysticks enough for them to feel like second nature anymore, like a mouse does.

I'll put the extra work in the early days playing joystick, getting owned for a little while by keyb/mouse users.
Eventually I expect to get adept again.

Edited by MadBoris, 31 May 2012 - 03:31 PM.

[CeeKay Boques]

Frostiken, on 31 May 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

This is going to **** off a lot of people, but the honest to god truth is that Mechwharrior really isn't a sim game. It's not as complex as people make it out to be. The most confusing aspect of it is how many weapons there are and what they all do, as well as the staggering number of mechs you encounter.

Everything else is accomplished by a single button push. R to turn off radar. C to **** coolant everywhere. E to select nearest enemy.

Until I have a clickable cockpit and there are complete avionics, radar modes, advanced damage modeling, etc, at best it's a detailed tank game.

As a DCS: A-10C vet, stop calling Mechwarrior a "sim". It isn't.

Oh stop it, I suppose Flaming Cliffs and IL-2 aren't sims either. As a Falcon4 guy, I know that Clickable is more simmy, but that doesn't make it not a sim. Hey Rise of Flight only has 3 ***** and none of them are clickable can't pull either , but its the best damn FM I've seen, and if you're a FS guy I know you know what I mean. There's more to sims than switchology. This is a sim, compared to the other robot games out there. If ever there was a robot sim, this is it. (minus steel battallion).