109 replies to this topic

[Daemoro]

As one person mentioned some people do have trouble with the mouse getting to the edge of the pad and having to pick it up and move it to get more "space". This is one reason I've been using a trac ball for years. Yeah I know that they are almost extinct but I love mine for pinpoint aiming. My fine motor control is better with my index finger than with my whole hand.

I like the idea mentioned here about using a joystick with the left hand for the mech movement and the mouse (trac ball in my case) for aiming. I still have an old joystick and it was "molded" for right hand use. I know some newer ones can be switched around for lefties.

Guess I will try the left joystick, right tracball technique and see how that works once I get to play.

Edited by Daemoro, 31 May 2012 - 03:37 PM.

[sumdumfu]

MadBoris, on 31 May 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

I used to gib people with a sidewinder all the time in super fast fps's, people wouldn't believe it.

The problem is we hardly use joysticks enough for them to feel like second nature anymore, like a mouse does.

I'll put the extra work in the early days playing joystick, getting owned for a little while by keyb/mouse users.
Eventually I expect to get adept again.

i suspect it'll be the reverse my friend. all the call of duty/quake pros will quickly find the mouse is not suited to controlling an unwieldy mech. playing this is nothing like quake.

[CeeKay Boques]

MadBoris, on 31 May 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

I'll put the extra work in the early days playing joystick, getting owned for a little while by keyb/mouse users.
Eventually I expect to get adept again.

Yep... "oneness" is only 80 playhours away, then you're all dead!


What.... **** is censored?

[CW Roy]

I don't know why people think a joystick is better. You might as well get a gamepad and use analog sticks. It's simply not better just because you can't remember which keys do what. And yes, I played MW4 for 7 or 8 years with the online community, and after it fell, with friends. I also played a few months with only a joystick. It just doesn't work as well. Perhaps we shall have a mouse/keyboard versus joysticks match when the game launches.

Edited by cw roy, 31 May 2012 - 03:42 PM.

[urKrash]

I always used a key, joy, trackball combo..people called me nuts but properly calibrated it's fast and accurate...joy for legs and trottle, track for torso and weapons, and keys for everything else not critical. Was deadly in my Scat...sigh..i miss her.

[Roland]

Daemoro, on 31 May 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

As one person mentioned some people do have trouble with the mouse getting to the edge of the pad and having to pick it up and move it to get more "space". This is one reason I've been using a trac ball for years.

Preach it, my trackball brother.

I use a thumb-trackball though.

[themoob]

It seems to me that using a mouse for aiming will dominate long range, where you aren't moving at high speeds and in circles and where you need pinpoint accuracy.

But in close range (especially high speeds), joystick would probably be a lot better, seeing as it's a lot more intuitive to guide your mech around whilst having control of everything at once.

[Banshee Bullet]

I want to switch from the keyboard to a joystick for my off hand but I have one problem with joysticks: thumb buttons.

I have four ******* fingers and one thumb so why are there eight thumb buttons and only one damn trigger? Some times you'll see sticks with two triggers but honestly, you're overworking your thumb and wasting fingers. You don't type with nothing but your thumbs, space bar and that's it.

[Dragon Lady]

A mouse and a keyboard is no substitute for a good HOTAS setup.

HOTAS stands for Hands on Throttle and Stick. A well setup HOTAS means you never have to take your hands off your throttle and joystick. Every single control you'll ever need will be at your fingertips on a trigger or hat switch. My old HOTAS (which needs a serial port... which my current PC doesn't have ) had 6 triggers, 2 4-way hats, and one 8-way hats (useful for looking around the cockpit) on the joystick. That gave me 14 "keys" I could press. My throttle had four triggers and four 4-way hats. That gave me 20 "keys" I could press. If I mapped one pink trigger to shift key, and the other pinky trigger to the control key, the total number of functions I could control, without ever taking my hands off my controls, was 128 (32 "keys" plus shift+, control+, and shift+control+ combos), plus the joystick and throttle's primary purpose, and the free-look 8-way hat. Use a ring finger trigger for the alt-key, and you expand your total potential functions to a mind blowing 248 (31 "keys" plus shift+, control+, alt+, shift+control+, shift+alt+, control+alt, and shift+control+alt+ combos).

A mouse is meant to be used one handed. A keyboard is meant to be used two handed. You're one hand short to maximize these controls. Chances are your mouse has three buttons plus the scroll wheel. And your keyboard (being one handed), only has access to 27 keys... and I'm being generous here, since some keys are awkward to use without moving your hand too far from "home row". Given that your pinky controls both control and shift, plus another 7 buttons, you can control 76 functions, plus the mouse's primary function and the scroll wheel. And you can't use shift/control/alt combos without either removing your left hand from home row, or your right hand from the mouse... which could hurt your response time.

There's another advantage to HOTAS beyond the sheer number of potential functions at your fingertips (how many do you need, anyways?) You can map game controls to all control+ or alt+ combinations, and use your keyboard to chat.

The only advantage a mouse/keyboard setup has over a HOTAS is the precision of the mouse for aiming while sniping And in this game, I doubt that'll come up all that often (and if it does, the mouse is still available.)

[Juiced]

provided I enjoy the game enough ill be buying a new joystick and throttle...it just will feel different playing like that. if i really really like the game ill add peddles to the deal.

[xMarshallx]

cw roy, on 31 May 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

I don't know why people think a joystick is better. You might as well get a gamepad and use analog sticks. It's simply not better just because you can't remember which keys do what. And yes, I played MW4 for 7 or 8 years with the online community, and after it fell, with friends. I also played a few months with only a joystick. It just doesn't work as well. Perhaps we shall have a mouse/keyboard versus joysticks match when the game launches.

I played MPBT for even longer and won every tournament the game offered using a stick. Stick>Keyboard/Mouse.

[Aelos03]

Mouse and keyboard i can't replace its too good for me

[MadBoris]

Most will use keyboard/mouse. Cheap and easy.

I do remember when adding mouse support into sims was actually new and strange, back when joysticks were more popular.

Poor PC lost support for the things it was good at.

[CeeKay Boques]

Dragon Lady, on 31 May 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

The only advantage a mouse/keyboard setup has over a HOTAS is the precision of the mouse for aiming while sniping And in this game, I doubt that'll come up all that often (and if it does, the mouse is still available.)

I have a HOTAS, but mouse is where the gun goes for me in MechWarrior. I will jumpjet with pedals, or possibly the joystick trigger. My mouse has 12 buttons, so we're ok there.

[Aelos03]

MadBoris, on 31 May 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Poor PC lost support for the things it was good at.

what you mean i don't get it

[CW Roy]

Steel Prophet, on 31 May 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

I've played MW-Games and especially MW4 always with a joystick and i couldn't find any difference between my accuracy and that of a player who aimed with a mouse.

To say it again: It depends on what you are used to. I don't think that from dev-side either of the 2 control methods will have an advantage over the other.

So you could consistently headshot Daishis just as easily with a joystick? I just can't see that with JS.

[Lomack]

I would think Mouse+Keyboard would have the advantage of speed of functionality. I certainly think you could probably situate yourself to playing Keyboard+Joystick. But most likely this will all fall under user prefrence.

The method you use to learn to play the game will probably be the method you use later on, even if it turns out that one controler option gives a slight advantage. Its a lot harder to go back and learn a new way once you can do most everything with an older method.

[TrentTheWanderer]

The way I have always played MechWarrior, and the way I intend to play is with Mouse + Joystick. I use the joystick to manuver and operate critical systems, as well as control weapon groups, and then my mouse to manipulate torso twist and operate optics/targeting.

It works well and is very immersive, providing an organic style of gameplay that I really enjoy.

[JazzySteel]

Maybe someone could help me out. I like the feel of a Joystick, but It feels awkward for me not to have my forearm parallel to the ground. The grip on most Joysticks is just too high.

Anybody have ideas or reccomendations for a Joystick with a low profile, or a way I could mount them lower (say chair-height instead of desk-height)

Much appreciated.

[MadBoris]

cw roy, on 31 May 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

So you could consistently headshot Daishis just as easily with a joystick? I just can't see that with JS.

I used to do it in quake and UT, very fast games. Head shots! GIBS! Sidewinder Joystick! Damn Right!

It's what you play with and practice with. Obviously people often use a mouse hours every day, hence SKILL.

15 years ago people thought playing an FPS with a game controller was ludicrous, now it's just accepted, people practiced, started actually playing on a controller, then eventually learning on a controller before playing with a mouse, making the mouse foreign to them.

Edited by MadBoris, 31 May 2012 - 04:33 PM.