673 replies to this topic

[CallMeGunny]

Personally.. I think it was better BEFORE hotfix: This is coming from a guy who streamed video of this game for 2 DAYS STRAIGHT without firing a single LRM (all yesterday and today, marathon thing.)

Now I don't get incoming missile notification often until I've already been nailed by a few volleys.
My CT goes red while nothing else has been hit, in seconds. Just a moment ago on River City Night: Hit by 3 volleys of LRM (out of about 8 coming at me) before missile warning went off. So I back up, only having been hit by about half of those 3 volleys (rest hit building on way to me): My CT was dark red in my ATLAS-D (94 frontal CT armor): Jagermech came around the corner and blew my armor off WITH 1 SHOT OF AN AC2.
And on the other hand: Missiles just miss like crazy. I'll further explain;

My ATLAS goes 48.6KPH and can often just stroll past missiles that are locked. From stationary to go, I walk TOWARDS the launcher and the missiles just casually go over my head.

As well, about a quarter of the time so far SINCE hotfix: I can't get a lock. No locking icon appears at all. Just typical red target box as though I don't even have missiles.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Bluten, on 21 March 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

Streaks weren't nerfed FYI, only SRMs and LRMs. 3L remains as OP as ever.

Taken right from this thread's first post:
LRMs drop from 1.8 damage per missile to 0.7 damage per missile.
SRMs drop from 2.5 damage per missile to 1.5 damage per missile.

Do you see Streaks mentioned here? I do not. Maybe they just didn't list it, but we'll have to actually find out, just like we did with missiles in the first place. They didn't list that huge missile bug either.

Edited by Bluten, 21 March 2013 - 07:25 PM.

[Kreisel]

I'm a bit concerned by by how much the numbers dropped on LRM, but I'll play it out to see how it feels in game before passing judgement. I will say I I would gladly take a nerfs like this to LRM in exchange for being able to shoot mechs with ECM. My experience recently has been the LRM mechs (I don't run total boats but I do have mechs where it's the primary source of damage) are highly inconsistent. Based on the presence of ECM I would either do so much damage to the other team it was silly... or be completely useless/helpless. There was no in-between, no middle ground.

I want LRM/SSRM/SRM to be good but not overpowered and I want the same to be true of ECM. Hopefully this fix to missiles spur a reconsideration as to how much ECM is 'needed' as a counter to them.

[Jern]

Thank you for the Hot Fix! I think this is a very playable solution to a difficult problem. LRM/SRMs are weaker than before Tuesday's patch but that is only because the damage is being spread more which it should. All other weapons actually have to be AIMED to hit where you want so missiles (yes even SRMs which also have to be aimed) need to have that damage spread for proper weapon balance. The SRMs need the spread too because a volley of them represents such a HUGE amount of damage. The game needs this sort of balance as it makes more of the non-missile hardpoint mechs competitive.

ECM is still a huge issue and also greatly effects which mechs are competitive. If ECM only reduced targeting range by say 20 percent, made locks take longer, and negated the bonuses of TAG, and ARTEMIS then I feel it would still be viable, but not overpowered.

Edited by Jern, 21 March 2013 - 07:49 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

SSRMs got the same nerf SRMs did.

[Commander Kobold]

D1G17AL, on 21 March 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

A discussion I just had with friends and foes after a match there was a decent consensus that there should probably be diminishing returns on the number of LRMs and SRMs hitting the same spot. With that you could rebuff damage slightly but not have the same level of over powered ability against mechs with overlapping hitboxes.

or better the more missles fired the wider the spread is (attributing to the guidance systems having to track with more missles) that way boating them is slightly nerfed while taking fewer/sing launchers become more vialble

[TheRulesLawyer]

This isn't an adjustment or bug fix. It is a nuclear nerf. So much for sensible changes like scale back the splash and *THEN* seeing where the damage was.

[Rixsaw]

Can we please have the Pre-Jagermech SRM and LRM's back?

[ZeroMaestro]

The right move, but a bit too much of a damage loss for LRMs.

[Stanton Langley]

Tested it by feel before reading this thread; had to hit the forums to find out how my missile damage for 8 tons of ammo from 2 x LRM-15 was 375 for a match. I don't mind a drop to damage per missile, but you need to buff the amount of missiles per ton accordingly. With double armor and .7 damage compared to tabletop, LRMs are extremely under-powered for their weight. Add in ammo weight, and it's simply ridiculous to try and bring missiles to the party.

[Banditman]

I am in love with the new numbers. In. Love.

It actually feels like other weapons are more viable now than at any point since last May.

[Shismar]

Stanton Langley, on 21 March 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

Tested it by feel before reading this thread; had to hit the forums to find out how my missile damage for 8 tons of ammo from 2 x LRM-15 was 375 for a match.

Sounds like it is where it should be. 2xLRM15 is not much, no matter how much ammo you are packing.

[Willie Sauerland]

Paul Inouye, on 21 March 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

It is at these levels that missile combat falls back to a level that we AND the community felt was right for a long period of time before the badness appeared. I'm going to ask you to help us test these values by FEEL. Not by playing SpreadsheetWarrior.

To me it feels right.

Missiles are still viable

and can still get good kills

but have taken on

a very necessary support role

as opposed to being

the best weapon system out there.

I'm beginning to see

some mediums again

which is very promising.

In all,

I think this was the best

balancing action

PGI has taken to date.

Note: Tested from both sides - with LRM/SRM/SSRMs and without. So, in the spirit of MW:O, this feels much more like a team based game again with actual roles being useful. Thank you.

[Cest7]

It might be the transition from yesterdays patch to today's, but it seems like no one is running LRM any more.

I'm not denying they needed a fix, but as a user posted earlier in this thread, a damage cap on the splash damage with a fading splash radius should definitely be explored. The issue was the multiplicative damage coefficient, lowering the splash radius may have fixed that on it's own. I suggest you guys explore the Damage:Splash ratio on missiles, with a max damage cap applied per missile, in internal testing,

[WVAnonymous]

Thontor, on 21 March 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

that sounds reasonable to me... they still do enough damage that you don't want to get stuck from out behind cover.. the people in the match from the screenshot i posted can attest to that. as long as being rained on by LRMs can't be ignored, they are fine.

it's when you can run around out in the open without a care in the world that they become an issue...

all numbers below assume stock AS7-D armor

think of it this way.. your 2LRM15 + artems weighs 16 tons.. and you used 1.17 tons of ammo to kill an Atlas in 7 shots

an AC/20 weighs 14 tons, and would take 8 shots to kill an Atlas hitting the center torso every shot.. that's 1.14 tons of ammo

2 PPCs weighs 14 tons and would take 8 shots to kill an Atlas hitting the center torso every shot.. and that's a lot hotter

a Gauss rifle weighs 15 tons and would take 11 shots to kill an Atlas hitting the center torso every shot.. 1.1 tons of ammo

it all sounds quite balanced to me...

Nice workup.

[DevilJade]

Thank god.

[TheRulesLawyer]

Confirmed- Its like throwing spitwads. Brawlers don't even have to bother with cover anymore as there is virtually no chance they'll get torn up up on the way in. Clumping in CT a bit much, but damage is way way way low.

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Death Dealer 199, on 21 March 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

hey just hit a mech with 4 lrm 15 volleys with artemis at 250 meters and he did not die. LRMS are totaly broke now.

The only reason to expect a mech to die from 4 volleys of a 7 (+1) ton weapon is that it was previously overpowered. Balance wise thats like being miffed that your PPC cant take out an opponent by hitting it 4 times in random locations around the mech (or in most cases even concentrated solely on CT)

[Rattazustra]

Great job at screwing everything up again. Now a fully specialized LRM mech is so ineffective, it is barely worth fielding any more.

This is not an adjustment. it is a chainsaw nerf. The new performance of LRM is horrid. Completely horrid.

I just rained EIGHT TONS(!!!) of Artemis LRM ammo down onto my enemies and most of them hit their targets square on. Guess how many kills I got. ONE! That is beyond the pale. If LRM stay like this, they are no viable weapon system any more.

[Balder]

While it was obvious that LRMs needed to be scaled back a good bit it feels like it was too much. My Trebuchet 7M went from 69 Firepower down to 35 simply with a patch. I had a 2 Lrm15 +Artemis with 900 ammo and 3 MLs. I struggle to finish anything off now. I was in a drop on River City Day and threw out 3 full 30 missile volleys at a Hunckback with mostly stripped armor. I know not every missile hit but I would see his read out light up with missile impacts that barely made a scratch. After all that another Hunckback from my team had to finish that zombie mech off with ballistic shots because my LRMs just couldn't do the job anymore. It's too bad, I really enjoyed my 7M as a fast missile platform with jump jets but unless I fire an ungodly number of missiles and just throw any thought of aim or tactical play out the window then I simply cannot contribute decent damage. Guess I'll have to use my Atlas and Cataphract brawlers for the time being.

The other issue this is going to lead to is now ECM is even more powerful than before the patch. It was already difficult enough to get a lock and have my missiles track in the 4 second PPC window but now even if I get off perfect shots the damage feels like a pittance. Really, I'm not firing off explosive smart projectiles anymore, I'm throwing nerf footballs with bottlerockets strapped to their backs. The entire missile family feels anemic.