2001 replies to this topic

[Jestun]

SirLANsalot, on 30 March 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

WoT uses both modes btw. You use 3P for driving around and doing quick drive by's, but if you want to snipe like in a TD then you use 1st person. Hence it will be the same here if we can swap between then two on the fly. Use 3P for quick drive by fights (like in a light) but if you want better accuracy when shooting at specific locations, you will need to use 1st person, especially for longer range fights.

And it gives clear advantages.

You can park behind a rock and see over it (enemy detection is based on LoS but is also shared between allies within the combined radio ranges of allied tanks - i.e. I can see any enemy which is within LoS of any tank whose sphere of radio range intersects with mine).

You can sit in hilly terrain, zoom the camera out and see not only the terrain that is hidden to 1st person but also any tanks spotted by allies.

You can see tanks behind you, you can see the terrain you are reversing into, etc.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Coolant, on 30 March 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

Nope, wasn't talking about NBT...was talking about Mercs pre-mektek vanilla and post mektek patches. To deny the popularity of 3rd Person servers would be to deny the truth. 3rd Person was the majority, so therefore there is a demographic that both wants and worth tapping into.

Once again, if, as has been expressed, the majority of players based on polls and threads here favor 1st Person, it was NOT reflected in either Mercs vanilla or Mercs+Mektek. I don't care if you played another Mercs mod that only had 1st Person. The fact is, there was a sizable population (until at least a few years after Mercs was released) that wanted and played 3rd Person even though it was just as easy to create a 1st Person only server. It really doesn't matter if good or bad players played 3rd Person, that doesn't change the fact that PEOPLE (and potential customers of PGI) wanted it. Tired of hearing that the majority of players don't want 3rd Person, when Mercs - the previous title - had plenty of players that wanted it. You are arguing a fallacy, because there WAS a market in Mercs for 3rd Person.

yes, on these servers then played primarily children, with unlimited ammo / Heat, their laser boats, jump sniping and all the other crap that BT makes just not why UDN veterans who may also want to pay what changed to MWLL

[MW Waldorf Statler]

I wanted yesterday to play Ghost recon online, but when I saw that it is in 3PV, I immediately uninstalled again, I hate this view, it bothers me when my HUD is covered by the own character and me from the game distracts I will not JumpNRun Mech...

ich wollte vorgestern Ghost recon online spielen ,aber als ich sah ,dass es in 3PV ist ,habe ich es sofort wieder deinstalliert , ich hasse diese Ansicht ,sie stört mich ,wenn mein HUD von der eigenen Spielfigur verdeckt wird und mich vom spiel ablenkt , ich will kein Mech JumpNRun

Edited by CSJ Ranger, 31 March 2013 - 01:41 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

SirLANsalot, on 31 March 2013 - 12:58 AM, said:

So after reading all the bellyaching about 3P, everyone seems to be forgetting that there is one game out there that literally has the best compromise.

World of Tanks literally has the best system out there for both 1P and 3P. They are hot swappable you can go into either mode in a single button. In WoT you use 3P mostly for driving around and taking pot shots at enemy's but not really for any specific targeting of components (tracks in this case) unless you are point blank with one another. Its better suited for fast tanks (or mechs here) like lights or mediums, but you still swap to 1P when you want to track (or in MWO take a leg/arm) a bigger tank (mech) with a well placed shot (or alpha for MWO). Also 1P only lets you use zoom in WoT you cannot zoom at all in 3P, this means you can't snipe with a Tank Destroyer unless you are in 1P mode. Meaning you cannot see left or right of you to see if another tank is sneaking up on you, since even your tank can't spot them.

Here in MWO this hot swap system of 1P/3P could apply very well to the very issue the players are clamoring over. In 3P you cannot zoom at all, in MW4 you could still use the zoom box even in 3P so you could still snipe. PGI here has a chance to fix that issue and disallow any zooming at all. Meaning you cannot use the advanced zoom module when in 3P, nor can you even use normal zoom you get now. You will have to swap to 1P mode to zoom in to take a sniper shot. The advantages of 1P become apparent now, meaning you will have the advantage of being able to place your firepower where you want it, even while brawling, over what 3P can. In 1P you will have a better sense of where your guns are, and where they are landing, in 3P you will just know your shooting at something and will be spraying everything all over the place. While in 3P you would be able to pilot your mech better, as you would have a better sense of where your legs/torso are and a better awareness overall of where you are in relation to the terrain.

So overall, 3P would be better for mid/short range combat but be less accurate and be better for driving your mech. 1P would be better for overall combat and you would have better accuracy as you are much closer to your guns but piloting your mech becomes slightly harder. No need for separate game modes for 1P/3P, as EVERY pilot would have them both active at all times, and it would be up to them if they wanted to swap between the two at a whim. Both views would have there advantages/disadvantages but no one mode would be "better" then the other. All the while the spotting system we have now would still stay intact. While in 3P you wont see weapons fire or mechs if your pilot did not see it happen in the first place.

Having an option to check what mode you wish to start the game in would be needed too.

If you think WoT so great, what do you do with here in MWO? then play your **** great WoT, I'm not even in your WoT forum and complain that there are 3PV! one reason why I will never play your great WOT!or play MW4 with Kids of 3PV Servers with unlimmited Heat/Ammo ...


when I walk into a Etablisement which advertises that I can meet there Women, I do not want guy who told me how great men are, and why I want to know that he is not and instead of women suddenly all men there are

Edited by CSJ Ranger, 31 March 2013 - 02:14 AM.

[Alienfreak]

SirLANsalot, on 31 March 2013 - 01:02 AM, said:

Mechwarrior 4. Best Mechwarrior title out there, and 3P was in it and used everywhere. As such the un-named masses will have remembered that game....and come here expecting the same thing. And without 3P will leave disappointed, without 3P and the Clans, most people won't get into this game until such a time as both of those are in. Since, again, most people remember MW4 very fondly, and only the small but noisy few, don't.

What am I reading? Off to the silent corner with you!

MW4 was like... THE WORST. The only good thing about MW4 was the Mechlab restriction.
The best MW is MW:LL. Anybody who claims otherwise must... well I dunno if he is able to use a keyboard if he says otherwise.

[FaceRipt]

I keep seeing the argument for 3pv as it helps with leg/ torso orientation. My question is, is it really so hard to figure out if your mech is walking forward or backwards and faceing left or right? They do have PG now so there really is no reason to not now how to operate your mech with some kind of proficiency imo. If it truely is that difficult for those people i would hate to see them walking down the street or heaven forbid operating a vehicle. It just seems like fishing for an advantage if you ask me.

[BattleBunny]

It makes me VERY happy to see that almost everybody here has strong feelings AGAINST implementing 3rd person view.

Being a MW4 veteran who used to run his own server, I have seen the splitting up of a community first hand, based on the point of view ingame. Half my clan played 3rd, half played first person view. I had the good fortune of getting my internet straight from a big fat university cable back then, and was able to run a dedicated server with a great ping. I made it Forced First Person (FFP) though, since I considered playing in 3rd person cheating. It nearly broke up my clan, and effectively divided the clan in two groups, that hardly got to play together anymore.

I stuck with FFP though. Its the only fair way to play.

Look, you guys made a good game here. You have gotten this dutchman to spend money on a free-to-play game, which is an impossible feat to accomplish . Now stick with upgrading the basics, add more stuff, give people a lobby to chat in and gather in before matches. Thats what this game needs in my opinion.

my 2 cents.
BB

[MentalPatient]

Really don't want third person, adds the ability to spot players in cover, which I see as cheating.

EDIT: also, as the game name implies, we are to assume the role of a mechwarrior, a human controlling a battlemech from INSIDE, and not with a view floating above and behind the mech like some radio controlled robot. For me, it's like making doom 3rd person... You just don't do it.

Edited by MentalPatient, 31 March 2013 - 02:56 AM.

[EvilCow]

FaceRipt, on 31 March 2013 - 02:31 AM, said:

I keep seeing the argument for 3pv as it helps with leg/ torso orientation. My question is, is it really so hard to figure out if your mech is walking forward or backwards and faceing left or right? They do have PG now so there really is no reason to not now how to operate your mech with some kind of proficiency imo. If it truely is that difficult for those people i would hate to see them walking down the street or heaven forbid operating a vehicle. It just seems like fishing for an advantage if you ask me.

The only reason for 3PV is poptarting and those wanting that are the same kind of ****** that mostly ruined MW4 with such lame tactics.

[Alienfreak]

EvilCow, on 31 March 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

The only reason for 3PV is poptarting and those wanting that are the same kind of ****** that mostly ruined MW4 with such lame tactics.

And Poptarding is already easy in this game.
Boat 2 ER PPCs and a Gauss in a Cataphract and poptard away.
In MW:LL this was countered by shake of the JJ in the beginning of the jump. So you had to go really high to be able to properly aim. In MW:O you can jump 10 meters high and just snipe and drop back down...

[Barghest Whelp]

SirLANsalot, on 31 March 2013 - 01:02 AM, said:

Mechwarrior 4. Best Mechwarrior title out there, and 3P was in it and used everywhere. As such the un-named masses will have remembered that game....and come here expecting the same thing. And without 3P will leave disappointed, without 3P and the Clans, most people won't get into this game until such a time as both of those are in. Since, again, most people remember MW4 very fondly, and only the small but noisy few, don't.

Wrong. MW4 was terrible compared to MW3. Want proof? How about this: after MW4 it took ten years to fund a new MW game, and then it needed a kickstarter in order to get funds. In other words, MW4 killed the franchise, just like Microsoft killed off the Mechcommander franchise with MC2.

On topic: a good way to implement 3PV is that you can only ever use it when your mech is shut down. There, no need to segment the playerbase. This way, any person using 3PV is also forced to make a sacrifice in order to do so.

[MWHawke]

Buddahcjcc, on 30 March 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

HEAD EXPLODEY

OMG!!!!

Heeden, on 30 March 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

You have the upper body, just below it you have the hips. If the camera is locked on the torso you will see the hips and can tell your direction of travel easily without looking away from the game area.

LOL!!! Whatever dude..

[Valentyn]

Alienfreak, on 31 March 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

And Poptarding is already easy in this game.
Boat 2 ER PPCs and a Gauss in a Cataphract and poptard away.
In MW:LL this was countered by shake of the JJ in the beginning of the jump. So you had to go really high to be able to properly aim. In MW:O you can jump 10 meters high and just snipe and drop back down...

I see this quite a bit on tourmaline and river city.

Add in 3PV and it'll be devastating all round, just like in MW4.

[MWHawke]

FaceRipt, on 31 March 2013 - 02:31 AM, said:

I keep seeing the argument for 3pv as it helps with leg/ torso orientation. My question is, is it really so hard to figure out if your mech is walking forward or backwards and faceing left or right? They do have PG now so there really is no reason to not now how to operate your mech with some kind of proficiency imo. If it truely is that difficult for those people i would hate to see them walking down the street or heaven forbid operating a vehicle. It just seems like fishing for an advantage if you ask me.

Apparently, there are people out there who need to have a hover-cam on their shoulder or they will walk into a wall cause they can't see their hips orientation.

[FaceRipt]

MWHawke, on 31 March 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:

Apparently, there are people out there who need to have a hover-cam on their shoulder or they will walk into a wall cause they can't see their hips orientation.

I know right, it's sad when you think about it really. Are you that stupid you can't figure out motion, how did you ever learn to walk, you don't get to see yourself in 3pv when your a child

[MentalPatient]

MWHawke, on 31 March 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:

Apparently, there are people out there who need to have a hover-cam on their shoulder or they will walk into a wall cause they can't see their hips orientation.

The thing is, for real life it's true. If you are walking around in a place which has obstacles all around you, and not looking where you re going, you will most likely bump into something. The key here is, increase your situational awareness by looking around you and where you are headed. You can tell if you are facing the way you are travelling, so there is no excuse for collisions apart from carelessness.

[FaceRipt]

MentalPatient, on 31 March 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

The thing is, for real life it's true. If you are walking around in a place which has obstacles all around you, and not looking where you re going, you will most likely bump into something. The key here is, increase your situational awareness by looking around you and where you are headed. You can tell if you are facing the way you are travelling, so there is no excuse for collisions apart from carelessness.

this.....oh so much this..........^^^^^^^^^^

[Alois Hammer]

Jestun, on 31 March 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

And it gives clear advantages.

And that's why the unwashed masses PGI is butt-kissing want it.

MWHawke, on 31 March 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:

Apparently, there are people out there who need to have a hover-cam on their shoulder or they will walk into a wall cause they can't see their hips orientation.

Give'em each a stick of chewing gum, send'em out for a walk, and call the result "culling the herd."

Edited by Alois Hammer, 31 March 2013 - 06:42 AM.

[LordBraxton]

SirLANsalot, on 30 March 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

WoT uses both modes btw. You use 3P for driving around and doing quick drive by's, but if you want to snipe like in a TD then you use 1st person. Hence it will be the same here if we can swap between then two on the fly. Use 3P for quick drive by fights (like in a light) but if you want better accuracy when shooting at specific locations, you will need to use 1st person, especially for longer range fights.

Brawling is a lot bigger deal in a mechwarrior game then a tank game, just because the pricing models are similar does not mean we should keep comparing these titles

Alois Hammer, on 31 March 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

And that's why the unwashed masses PGI is butt-kissing want it.

Don't they realize when everyone has an advantage nobody does? Its like all the education reforms in America that kept making our education system worse and worse.

[SirLANsalot]

ok so I can see how people are fearing 3P from the poptarting days of MW4, and those fears are not unfounded. However you need to keep in mind, PGI KNOWS THIS. How the hell do you think 3P will be the same? Poptarting WILL NEVER HAPPEN the way it was in MW4 with 3P. Its been said a billion times and seems to be said again.

The Spotting system will stay the same in 3P as it is now
The Spotting system will stay the same in 3P as it is now
The Spotting system will stay the same in 3P as it is now
The Spotting system will stay the same in 3P as it is now
and again
The Spotting system will stay the same in 3P as it is now

For you of small mind this means if your mechs pilot DID NOT SEE IT HAPPEN, it will not show up. You can have a craziest FoV out there...but you wont see a damn thing if your pilot would not of seen it in the first place as it is now in 1P.