136 replies to this topic

[Armored Yokai]

MW2 and MW3 had clan tech capabilities
and they turned out to be great games
just embrace it

[xhrit]

Tennex, on 29 March 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

I think faction specific mechs would be cool though. but with the limited amount of content now, that just means that PGI gets to sell less stuff

I think "faction mechs" is going to be a tab under "trial mechs" and "owned mechs" in the mech bay. Each faction will get 4 basic configuration mechs in faction colors to use...

[Merky Merc]

Who cares if IS mechs use only Clan tech? It's not like MLs being completely outclassed by ERMLs is some colossal waste of development time or MC.

If there is no mixing of tech, I won't be sitting around waiting to get wrecked by clan mechs. I will become Mechwarrior Merky of Clan DGAFIGOTAMADCAT, and I will run between you and a teammate every match if zelbrigen is in place. Osht you shot me lol now we can focus fire.

[VanillaG]

Well technically IS omnimechs can mount clan tech:

Quote

The technology also greatly [enhances] salvage, even if an enemy OmniMech is virtually destroyed, an intact OmniPod can be detached and reattached to a functional Omni just as quickly and easily as it was factory fresh, maximizing the Clan's overriding drive to avoid waste. While Inner Sphere and Clan technologies are generally incompatible with each other with regard to repairs, this does not apply to OmniPods, with Inner Sphere OmniMechs able to mount Clan pods and Clan Omni's able to equip Inner Sphere pods interchangeably This is due to Inner Sphere Omni technology being reverse engineered from Clan designs, as opposed to being separately developed.

If you limited IS mechs to using only use IS XL Engines, Endo, FF, and DHS and prevented Clan mechs to modifying chassis elements you would have good start. You could then allow clan weapons on any type of mech but IS mechs are still limited by hardpoints. When you look at the stats on most clan weapons, they are only about 20% better in the dimensions that are different. Not counting weight and crit space, most clan weapons are only better in 1 dimension(i.e. range, damage, heat). Lasers are the big exception in that they are better in both range and damage but given the introduction beam duration the devs can use that give the feel of more damage instead of straight boosting damage output.

Frankly all of he QQ about how it is going to ruin the game seems a little overblown.

Edited by VanillaG, 29 March 2013 - 09:13 PM.

[TehSBGX]

I say Allow Mix Tech, this way Is mechs can still stay competitive. Not allowing it will just have everyone stoping around in Mad cats and Thors killing variety.

Plus letting Omnis have drawbacks too, like you cannot TOUCH the Engine or Armor, touching sinks is fine since Clan players will have acess to coolant modules anyways :/

[PANZERBUNNY]

Merky Merc, on 29 March 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

Who cares if IS mechs use only Clan tech? It's not like MLs being completely outclassed by ERMLs is some colossal waste of development time or MC.

If there is no mixing of tech, I won't be sitting around waiting to get wrecked by clan mechs. I will become Mechwarrior Merky of Clan DGAFIGOTAMADCAT, and I will run between you and a teammate every match if zelbrigen is in place. Osht you shot me lol now we can focus fire.

I imagine the devs would be wise to the many ways people could grief Zel.

I could see it coded in that if Zel is accepted and someone is running within a certain distance of you or your target and are hit, it doesn't break Zel or have any impact on the Clan player.

Lots can be done to curb kids from ruining how Clans are supposed to be played.

Ruin Zel by ambushing or intervening when your guy is looking rough, that's fine, but out to grief and "dishonour" the Clan pilot through mechanics is fairly lame.

[Merky Merc]

PANZERBUNNY, on 29 March 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

I imagine the devs would be wise to the many ways people could grief Zel.

I could see it coded in that if Zel is accepted and someone is running within a certain distance of you or your target and are hit, it doesn't break Zel or have any impact on the Clan player.

Lots can be done to curb kids from ruining how Clans are supposed to be played.

Ruin Zel by ambushing or intervening when your guy is looking rough, that's fine, but out to grief and "dishonour" the Clan pilot through mechanics is fairly lame.

Yeah I don't see them implementing some confusing scheme just so clans are played "how they're supposed to". How would you even be able to prove that I did ran into your lasers purposefully? You can't, and I will, and zel wasn't even followed by the clans for very long soooo **** it.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Merky Merc, on 29 March 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

Yeah I don't see them implementing some confusing scheme just so clans are played "how they're supposed to". How would you even be able to prove that I did ran into your lasers purposefully? You can't, and I will, and zel wasn't even followed by the clans for very long soooo **** it.

IF someone is closing into close distance with you OR your target, it's a pretty clear threat and breach to the honour duel going on. Stop trying to game the game. We know what that person is up too. We know their intentions. It would make perfect sense for people actually respecting Zel to stay a good distance from the engaged mechs. If you fire on a mech in Zel you are a legit target and can also be fired on.

They've said many moons ago that they are experimenting with ways to enforce players in the way the Clans are supposed to fight.

Wasn't followed for very long?

Go read your books again. Your ignorance is painful and makes me want to drink more wine.

Some Clans follow it more. Some less, but they all follow it to some degree unless their opponents scoff at it.

Expect something to herd people towards a more "advanced" form of game interaction with their enemies. (As it should be.)

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 29 March 2013 - 09:37 PM.

[Merky Merc]

PANZERBUNNY, on 29 March 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

Wasn't followed for very long?

Go read your books again. Your ignorance is painful and makes me want to drink more wine.

Some Clans follow it more. Some less, but they all follow it to some degree unless their opponents scoff at it.

Expect something to herd people towards a more "advanced" form of game interaction with their enemies. (As it should be.)

Yes, go drink more wine and think about why your ideas are bad and you should feel bad.

[FunkyFritter]

Mixtech sounds far more appealing than any form of mismatched teams. I'm all for whatever implementation gives me the most design options when building a mech, lore and everything else takes a back seat.

[Dan Nashe]

A week ago I had faith. They'd pick a way. I'd live with it. My suspicions are one of the following:
(1) They'll let everything go mixed tech, including endo, FF and engines. Clan mechs will have better hardpoints (Daishi) or they won't. If they don't, chassis will be purely cosmetic.
-----(a) they'll follow TT clan weapon values, but triple armor to match the fact that clan weapons are all *at least* 50% better.
-----( they'll follow TT clan weapon values, and not change armor. Many mechs will now be able to one shot enemies. Every mech will become the Jaegerbomb.
----(c) they'll nerf clan weapons and engines and armor and endo steel into the ground. Making these weapons balanced.

(2) They'll experiment with unbalanced sides using pure TT clan/IS tech splits. This will likely fail horribly for a long time [1 mech that can one shot one enemy mech is impossible to value properly] but maybe they'll find a good matching of weight/class/# balancing.

(3) only weapons/gear will be mixed, engine, internal structure, and armor will be by base chassis. Clan mechs will rule. Good chance I'll quit, but not guaranteed. I mean, same game, different art.

(4) clanmechs will be locked behind a major pay wall of some kind. NO faction limitation. (I'd quit on this one too).

I really hope they introduce the clans in a neat way, but I'm not optimistic after the 3rd Person PoV thing (minor annoyance to me) and the community warfare "announcement." But, they could. I've seen game companies do things that I hadn't thought of and thought "okay, that works too."

What I am not going to do is panic, quit, or lose sleep until all this stuff is finalized. I might worry a little when I browse the forums, but that's it. People read *way* too much into things sometimes. On the other hand, sometimes I think PGI bit off more than they can chew. They seem to lack a real roadmap but there just may be more things they want to do than they can. But this may just be poor communication with the community (an annoyance, but not something I'd quit over pre-retail-release).

[El Bandito]

Inner Sphere whoring Clan tech is canon. Those who are not spamming Clan tech or producing their own version of omni-mechs tend to fall behind--also canon.

Just a FYI.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 March 2013 - 09:56 PM.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Merky Merc, on 29 March 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

Yes, go drink more wine and think about why your ideas are bad and you should feel bad.

It's you guys who will have to wait for it.

For those people who think they will be able to tool around in Clan mechs, toting all the great tech advantages and NONE of the "disadvantages associated with being an honourable warrior, slightly restricted in those regards unless the enemy completely breaks Zel.

BAHAH!

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

I've said what OP has said various times since the start. Don't want any Clan Tech or Mechs in my Inner Sphere Houses. They would render all IS stuff completely obsolete and pointless. Fools want them to just cost more, well then it's just an Armsrace or P2W. Problem not solved. What would solve it however is to restrict Clan Tech to a Clan House. If you want it, go over there and join those guys. They then need to make matches uneven so full IS vs full Clan would be balanced out. But if they don't do this right, all IS stuff will become useless and people that paid money for this stuff will have been ripped off. As soon as you drop Clan Tech into the Inner Sphere, this game will be dead to me and many others. Why? Because it's all anyone will ever use. Every game would be Madcats or Vultures or Daishi's; IS stuff would become a needless tier between Trials and the "good" stuff. I don't want that. I like my Inner Sphere Mech designs. Some of us actually like IS stuff and want it to be competitive, forever. Others want their purchases to NOT be rendered obsolete, which you already did to Founders and the now crappy variants we're stuck with. But there is also the future MC price issue. If Clan Mechs/heroes are usable in Inner Sphere Houses, how will they be balanced vs the IS stuff? You going to charge 50$ for a Mech? No. Just use the same MC prices and restrict them to a Clan faction(s).

Just restrict all Clan Tech to Clan factions and let people play the ones they want. Then the IS vs Clan matches could be 12vs8, or 8vs5. Trust me size can win out over tech level differences. Doesn't matter how much better your Mech is when a larger force all focus fires the same target. Size difference also means Clan Tech doesn't need to be watered down to keep IS competitive. Balancing the game in this way allows you to keep IS relevant/competitive, keep Clan stuff superior, while also having fully IS Houses vs Clan PvP matches. Commonwealth vs Clan Wolf organized PvP is just waiting to happen, but it basically won't if you let anyone in our Houses use fancy Clan stuff. It would then just be Madcats vs Madcats every day regardless of factions. NTY.

[PANZERBUNNY]

TT is 12 VS 10. Stars are 5 mechs per, so it's 3 lances VS 2 Stars.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

El Bandito, on 29 March 2013 - 09:53 PM, said:

Inner Sphere whoring Clan tech is canon. Those who are not spamming Clan tech or producing their own version of omni-mechs tend to fall behind--also canon.

Just a FYI.

That's great and all for the history books, but in an actual PvP based game with Premium Mechs and MC bought rides and factions, it'd be very bad. Also, IS wasn't able to adapt to horde Clan Tech until after the Invasion. During the actual Invasion, you wouldn't really have any of this stuff unless you lucked up and salvaged it.

PANZERBUNNY, on 29 March 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

TT is 12 VS 10. Stars are 5 mechs per, so it's 3 lances VS 2 Stars.

That's why I said those numbers. I know about Clan Stars vs House Lances.

Edit: I forgot to say, put a poll in the thread.

Edited by Bluten, 29 March 2013 - 10:11 PM.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Sometimes the fingers don't type what the mind wants them to type.

[Ryvucz]

Victor Morson, on 29 March 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

With Clan equipment looming on the horizon, I am growing increasingly concerned with the current MC direction. Namely, that Clan equipment will be available for Inner Sphere pilots on a wide scale, including chassis.

No. No, no, no. NO. Do not do this.

I'm entirely behind allowing Clans into the game, and supporting them, but the minute you allow people in the IS to buy Clan tech, even at enhanced prices, all you're going to do is muddy the faction line and not make being IS/Clan mean anything at all.

I would be OK with some exceptions, like "Experimental builds" with 1 or 2 clan hard points - but if you start allowing Inner Sphere pilots to buy Mad Cats, they will, and then that's pretty much all they will use.

You'll hurt the faction dynamic and utterly crush the game if you do large scale mix-tech. You'll accelerate this even further if you make crossteching an MC thing. Just leave a clear divide between the factions and let players go to where they'd like: Worry about balancing through other methods like BV or some kind of Clan limitation.

tl/dr: Do NOT give the IS the ability to buy Mad Cats, and don't give the Clans the options to buy IS 'mechs, either. Keep the factions separate. Maybe introduce experimental IS 'mechs that can use Clan tech, or 2nd line mechs that can use IS tech, but that should be the absolute maximum extent of cross-tech.

I hope you're not suggesting that I would have to sell all of my current mechs to obtain a Clan mech...

[jakucha]

I thought I read a dev post that said clan tech won't mix with IS.

[Taemien]

Cementblade, on 29 March 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

MW2 and MW3 had clan tech capabilities
and they turned out to be great games
just embrace it

Great single player games.

Multiplayer went like this:

4v4

4 Striders vs 4 Striders

Each had max armor, speed, and 16 Clan Er Small Lasers

In addition each player focused on an individual opponent making it four 1v1's.


That is why I stuck to Pirates Moon, we ran salvage games (first game was stock, and games after that you could only mod your mech based on what was taken in that first game in the next couple of games, usually 3 total) that prevented such configs from being used.

I'd like to see Mixtech NOT used. Mainly because around 3057-62 we start seeing weapons that the two factions don't have versions of. Clan Advanced Tactical Missiles (ATMs), Heavy Lasers, and the Inner Sphere has Heavy Gauss, Light Gauss, and Rotary Autocannons.

I would not like to see these weapons crossed over at all, as it would preserve faction integrity and distinction.