296 replies to this topic

[Joe Mallad]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 March 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

dunno, but this way explains some of the tenants of CW... and for those who were not listening... i do believe when he mentioned PHASE 3, I heard the word "CLANS"........

yes he did. And it was also slipped that the game goes live in late September. So i would expect phase 3 to start about that time. sorry clanners.

[Butane9000]

My only concern in the whole video is when he's discussing the factions and he doesn't mention what will happen to custom house units (such as the Marik Gunfighter Alliance). Otherwise the system does indeed sound ideal.

[jay35]

Wintersdark, on 31 March 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

re:

Everyone is filled with rage and disgruntlement at a small snippet that may or may not have been misinterpreted or what have you, I figured I'd draw attention to it.

I, for one, am chock full off Squee at the contents of this interview:
Lone Wolf gameplay: Exists for those who just want to drop and play, and don't care about CW or the Larger Story.
Faction gameplay: For the roleplayer sorts, who want to be a part of something larger, but don't want the hassle/responsibility of being a part of a large autonomous guild of players.
Merc gameplay: For the player who wants to be a part of a large guild of players, to be a part of something entirely player driven, who want direct control of their destiny.

This sounds downright awesome to me. I'd love to do the "Merc Gameplay" style of play, but generally speaking just can't devote the time necessary to do so; scheduled events are out for me. But on the other hand, I want more than the aimless drop-and-fight we have now. I want a purpose! So it looks like Faction gameplay will be the way to go for me, unless I happen across a Merc guild that can work for me.

All in all, the interview sounded pretty damn promising.

So, a /hattip to our developers, and while I'm sure this will be lost in the Open Forum Warfare, I for one am even more excited for Community Warfare than I was before this whole kerfluffle.

As long as "Lone Wolf gameplay" doesn't equate to leaving the scraps of the beta for the free players while the design and development shifts entirely to catering to the Merc gameplay. So long as it doesn't turn out that the current incomplete matchmaker and two point-cap gametypes will be all there is for "Lone Wolf gameplay", while all the real content is done for "Merc" gameplay.

[johnyboy420]

the prob is the playerbase dosent trust PGI anymore

just like when the coolflush got out of hand

[Sifright]

I love the dollar sign which represents terra.

[Wintersdark]

Yoseful Mallad, on 31 March 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

i just feel that they need to make sue there is some way in the game for the whole community to take on everyone else. Clan players (once introduced and able to be played) should be able to fight other Clans, House Factions and Mercs. Mercs should be able to fight everyone, as well... so should the House Factions be able to fight everyone else.

Seriously - and I'm absolutely not a "PGI Apologist" or whatever else - they'll do this.

As I said above, it makes sense from a purely game design viewpoint, it's the obvious approach.

You want to maximize player pools to avoid long wait times for battles and horrendous ELO matchups, so of course house players will fight merc players and vice versa.

I'd bet real, hard cash that that'll be the case. Say what you want about PGI's decisions, but this one is pretty much a given.

You're really worried about nothing in this case.

Buddahcjcc, on 31 March 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

Yes, these interviews have nothing to do with the issue that spawned that huge thread in the first place, but Im thinking that was the point

It was my point. I wanted to talk about something else. I feel quite strongly about the other issue, but everything that can be said there has been. There's no point more in nerdraging about it - PGI knows how we feel, and now they'll do whatever they do, and we'll do whatever we do as a result of that.

And, to be sure... There's good information about CW here. We've all wanted CW information for months, we've begged and clamoured for it. Well, here it is!

Buddahcjcc, on 31 March 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

funny given that thread is what the conversation here is currently about if you read back this page and the one before.
Cant sweep it under the rug by locking the thread and funnelling us all into this thread and saying "here talk about this instead"

I love the headshaking raven, but it needed to be cut for space.

I get that's what people have been talking about, but I'd love to fix that. It's pointless, it's a waste of time. Everything that can be said has been, everyone has had their say.

God knows, I'm not trying to sweep anything under the rug. I'd just like to have a discussion about awesome stuff that's coming without it being drowned in pointless ********, that's all.

[Sifright]

Wintersdark, on 31 March 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

Seriously - and I'm absolutely not a "PGI Apologist" or whatever else - they'll do this.

As I said above, it makes sense from a purely game design viewpoint, it's the obvious approach.

You want to maximize player pools to avoid long wait times for battles and horrendous ELO matchups, so of course house players will fight merc players and vice versa.

I'd bet real, hard cash that that'll be the case. Say what you want about PGI's decisions, but this one is pretty much a given.

You're really worried about nothing in this case.


It was my point. I wanted to talk about something else. I feel quite strongly about the other issue, but everything that can be said there has been. There's no point more in nerdraging about it - PGI knows how we feel, and now they'll do whatever they do, and we'll do whatever we do as a result of that.

And, to be sure... There's good information about CW here. We've all wanted CW information for months, we've begged and clamoured for it. Well, here it is!

If they were worried about player queues and elo working properly they would be not adding another 20 odd queues to the game with 3PV (3 queues, 3PV only, FPV only, Mix of views queue) Regional player split leading to two new queues NA and EU. Any new games modes they come up with which are far more important and actually needed.

3 queues for View modes.

2 queues for Region

2 queues for game mode

2 queues for team, 4 man or 8

24 for the above, assuming nothing else which gets added as another way to split up the players.

if we assumed CW was done in a way to split existing players we could have two to three more queues for this resulting in 48-72 queues

edit:

If we assume the full release did the following

View modes = 3

Game modes = 5

CW modes = 2

Regional servers = 2
Teaming mode = 2

120 queues to split the players up...

IT certainly doesn't look like pgi fears doing this... given 8 man is already a dead zone i'm pretty worried about the future.

Edited by Sifright, 31 March 2013 - 06:03 PM.

[Wintersdark]

jay35, on 31 March 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

As long as "Lone Wolf gameplay" doesn't equate to leaving the scraps of the beta for the free players while the design and development shifts entirely to catering to the Merc gameplay. So long as it doesn't turn out that the current incomplete matchmaker and two point-cap gametypes will be all there is for "Lone Wolf gameplay", while all the real content is done for "Merc" gameplay.

There's a third group there.

I expect "Lone Wolf Gameplay" won't change much from what it is now, save for the addition of any other gamemodes, maps, etc. The whole point of the Lone Wolf aspect is to preserve the game we have now. Lone Wolves will still benefit from all the actual gameplay enhancements that come along, of course, just without the faction/unit bonuses and responsibilities.

Factions are basically for the Lone Wolf sorts who want to participate more in the CW experience without joining a Merc Unit - they get all the perks of Community Warfare, and none of the responsibilities or hassle of being beholden to the Merc Unit leaders.

[Butane9000]

jay35, on 31 March 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

As long as "Lone Wolf gameplay" doesn't equate to leaving the scraps of the beta for the free players while the design and development shifts entirely to catering to the Merc gameplay. So long as it doesn't turn out that the current incomplete matchmaker and two point-cap gametypes will be all there is for "Lone Wolf gameplay", while all the real content is done for "Merc" gameplay.

I'd imagine to say that lone wolves won't actually engage in CW since there isn't a reason to benefit from playing by yourself. However I do think they need to support lone wolves with added game modes and types.

[Skadi]

Also holy **** bryan is a nervous person...

Bishop Steiner, on 31 March 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

wow...pretty cool how even a person with Aspergers is not allowed to talk about it on here? Stay progressive folks! Autism is not a bad word, Mods, hate to break it to you, and asking is someone might have a form, not an insult. Way to take PC to the max.

What?

[Sifright]

Butane9000, on 31 March 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

I'd imagine to say that lone wolves won't actually engage in CW since there isn't a reason to benefit from playing by yourself. However I do think they need to support lone wolves with added game modes and types.

I totally want to hold and control planets on my lonesome....

one man vs the world.

Staring down a horde of mercs and house soldiers in my atlas.

Fleas and jenners charging across the battle field.

The solitary atlas staring down the battle field as the horde of enemies rush towards him an unstoppable tide of death.

(totally unrealistic ofcourse but part of me can't resist the visuals it would create)

Edited by Sifright, 31 March 2013 - 06:17 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Sifright, on 31 March 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

If they were worried about player queues and elo working properly they would be not adding another 20 odd queues to the game with 3PV (3 queues, 3PV only, FPV only, Mix of views queue) Regional player split leading to two new queues NA and EU. Any new games modes they come up with which are far more important and actually needed.

3 queues for View modes.

2 queues for Region

2 queues for game mode

2 queues for team, 4 man or 8

24 for the above, assuming nothing else which gets added as another way to split up the players.

if we assumed CW was done in a way to split existing players we could have two to three more queues for this resulting in 48-72 queues

edit:

If we assume the full release did the following

View modes = 3

Game modes = 5

CW modes = 2

Regional servers = 2
Teaming mode = 2

120 queues to split the players up...

IT certainly doesn't look like pgi fears doing this... given 8 man is already a dead zone i'm pretty worried about the future.

While I understand what you're saying - and agree that it's an issue - your math is somewhat flawed to give an exaggerated result.

Players don't have to select a game mode - they can click "Any". Selecting a game mode is a player driven choice that limits their prospective pool, so players take that responsibility and the results on themselves.

Region is inevitable. I'm sure PGI would FAR rather have integrated servers, but just like virtually every other MMO out there it's not a simple choice. There are legal and logistical concerns that greatly complicate that. So, given the choice of only NA servers, or completely seperate servers, they went with the option that at least offers EU players a good gameplay experience, if a segregated one. Failing to have servers for EU players at all is simply a bad idea, as for very many the game will be effectively unplayable anyways. Most players who choose to move off the NA queues as a result are going to be ones who don't have a good local game experience (really high ping) or are people who simply don't play for that same result. This doesn't significantly impact the player pool.

Anyways:

Being concerned about dividing the player pool doesn't mean they wouldn't do the above. It means they weigh the costs (in terms of resultant pool size) vs. the benefit of those modifications.

So, they felt implementing 3rd person view, with it's cost in terms of queues, was worth it on the balance. We'll see if that holds up or not.

But they'll keep evaluating this equation with each new feature, and as you so clearly demonstrated above, each new queue division is an expontential increase in number of queues.

Obviously, they feel they can support a certain number of different queue pools without harming the gameplay experience, but that doesn't mean they feel they can support any number of them.

Edited by Wintersdark, 31 March 2013 - 06:18 PM.

[Skadi]

Buddahcjcc, on 31 March 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

they redacted his comment saying that Bryan had it a few pages back

Ah, well he may not want that roaming about so that removal is understandable, honestly though he seems nervous more than anything, and hes kind of a cool guy. (talking to him via posting and killed/seen him killed in matches...)

[StalaggtIKE]

CW sounds great! I'm looking forward to it.

Chavette, on 31 March 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

About the body language you're right, but I think she wanted to pick him up, hope he got her number!

So it wasn't just me. Perhaps she was just trying to make him feel at ease, but her body language was definitely genial.

[Bishop Steiner]

so does about 1 in 20 people..... but apparently it is no t OK to talk about it. Don't ask, don't tell?

[Skadi]

Buddahcjcc, on 31 March 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

aww im not high enough in elo do ever see them



I do too actually lol

It was far pre elo... FAR PRE... back when killing paul was something I did on a matchly basis (closed beta)

[Bishop Steiner]

johnyboy420, on 31 March 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

even i have Aspergers i take that as a low blow BRO

huh?

[Bishop Steiner]

Niko Snow, on 31 March 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

He is a pretty cool guy, and I wouldn't say he has it based on my training from Hollywood Upstairs Medical College. Regardless, medical and psychological conditions are private matters and not the subject of discussion for mech madness. There are plenty of medical forums on the interwebs for those who wish to have such discussions. Stay on target!

Message received even if my receptors do not entirely understand the outrage.

Regardless, Community Warfare, and it's potential awesomeness, not medical conditions, are the focus.

So, as I was saying.... anyone else catch the term "Clans" in Phase 3........?

(and for the record, at least in game conversation, all of the Devs I have spoke with have been pretty cool. Even Russ after I killed his Hunchy in Closed Beta. Bryan has been cool, and I have dropped with and against Alex and Garth many times. No tudes from any of the above)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 31 March 2013 - 06:32 PM.

[Tywren]

Matt Minus, on 31 March 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

I'm absolutely saying it's OK to make fun of those people. "Pay to play with your friends" was a total fabrication with no basis in the interview, and there's nothing wrong with pay elements in the game. If there are no pay elements, there is no game. And, no, this is not DotA and they will not be able to sustain themselves on camo patterns and bobbleheads. If they could, they would.

Then they should look at other options than charging for CW, especially if it's only the mercs fitting the bill. In fact i can mention a few just off the top of my head...

1. change business models from P2P to B2P (not P2P) and make all aspects of the game that cost MC now cost C-Bills instead.

2. Implement hosted servers. while this won't make PGI money, it will save them money, as the tab for the game servers is being picked up by the hosting communities. all PGI would have to pay for are test servers, and a data storage server for pilot info/unlocks/mechs.

3. Sell future maps in Map-pack DLC format.

4. Charge for changing your mech to a custom loadout. Make those who want to turn a standard mech into a gauss Cat, an AC20 Jager, or a mech with enough double heatsinks to scoff at Tourmaline Dessert's 97c temp pay for the privilege.

[Skadi]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 March 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

Message received even if my receptors do not entirely understand the outrage.

Regardless, Community Warfare, and it's potential awesomeness, not medical conditions, are the focus.

So, as I was saying.... anyone else catch the term "Clans" in Phase 3........?

Yes, hence my "PHASE 3RANDOMLETTERSHERE" post. I want my dire wolf/Bane