1089 replies to this topic

[SubRyan]

hammerreborn, on 03 April 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

And since the SRM nerf most people are saying the D-DC is useless, and with every state rewind lights have been disappearing at an alarming pace.

I quite enjoy my SDR-5D and use it often. Same goes for the RVN-2X, 4X, and COM-1B

[Vassago Rain]

I'm gonna bring out my crystalball again. Due to needless whining over a system that worked, and instead of adding fun stuff to let you cut through it/mod the system/customize your mechs, we get locked ECM modules.

This will result in at least one full ****** mech with ECM in the leg, or an atlas with it locked in the left arm, which screws over builds that were established 8 months ago. Which makes these mechs unpopular. Which makes warbosses rarer than they already are, while the ECM mechs without ******** hardpoint locks (you know one raven will not have it locked in a silly place) become the new hotness.

Then you'll all complain, but the former warbosses will be too busy poptarting in our highlanders to care this time.

Feel free to quote me on this in a month, when they throw in this change.

[Davers]

Stalkerr, on 03 April 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

Paul, I love you for your love for Battletech bud, but these are not good ideas from the perspective of building a deep and lasting metagame in MWO.

• ECM should not be a dedicated hardpoint so people can disable it. This defeats the purpose of having a mechlab in the first place. You might as well rename it the "Weapon Lab", because you're essentially taking away the ability to customize a robot to be as effective as possible. There is already a counter to ECM and it's called ECM on counter. Alternately, you could also make BAP counter ECM, and call it a day. Plus, PPCs can temp counter ECM now a well. PLEASE do not make lazy game design choices like this. You kill off the depth of metagaming robot builds with these kinds of decisions.
  
• ECM should continue to cut out friendly signatures. If your teammates are that far split off from you without some sort of ECM counter, there should be some sort of penalty when they come under an ECM umbrella. This is a perfectly valid game mechanic and should remain in the game.

Short story... if you make these changes, you nerf ECM so much there is no reason to ever bring one on any robot in MWO's metagame. If your intention is to make the ECM useless and make MWO matches a more shallow experience, then you're on the right track. As a former game designer myself I implore you, please do not take the easy road on this and think carefully through the downstream implications of your decision.


Thanks,

So this is one vote for buffing ECM?

It really stinks that in conversations about EW Narc wasn't even mentioned.

[Thuzel]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 03 April 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

5 months for that? And PPCs vs ECM. Hilarious. Guess that ECM thread was a waste of time.

This is what a lot of us have been saying for over half a year. PGI does not listen. They do what they want to do, and we're just along for the ride.

The best we ever seem to get is some occasional lip service and backpedaling when it really hits the fan.

[shintakie]

Vassago Rain, on 03 April 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

That's not. We don't have that one, and never will have it. So they consolidated the mechs into 'tech,' 'generalist,' and 'commander.'

We...have the Atlas K though? I've played an Atlas K. How exactly do we not have an Atlas-K in game?

[John MatriX82]

Take away counter mode, ECM bearers must be targeted AND locked on when they come close to any enemy mech and spotted for the whole team. Adv Sensor range helps to extend this detection range.

With longer lock times, for sure, that you can reduce only by bringing BAP and tagging/narcing the ecm bearer.

This way it's an alternative AMS and thanks to the new vision modes it will truly allow silent infiltration behind enemy lines or spotting for the team.

However I can be glad that to an extent the situational awareness breaking will come to an end. At least this.. but don't get to me telling that PPCs are a counter to ECM, I feel joked..

[razzle]

Stalkerr, on 03 April 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

Paul, I love you for your love for Battletech bud, but these are not good ideas from the perspective of building a deep and lasting metagame in MWO.

• ECM should not be a dedicated hardpoint so people can disable it. This defeats the purpose of having a mechlab in the first place. You might as well rename it the "Weapon Lab", because you're essentially taking away the ability to customize a robot to be as effective as possible. There is already a counter to ECM and it's called ECM on counter. Alternately, you could also make BAP counter ECM, and call it a day. Plus, PPCs can temp counter ECM now a well. PLEASE do not make lazy game design choices like this. You kill off the depth of metagaming robot builds with these kinds of decisions.
  
• ECM should continue to cut out friendly signatures. If your teammates are that far split off from you without some sort of ECM counter, there should be some sort of penalty when they come under an ECM umbrella. This is a perfectly valid game mechanic and should remain in the game.

Short story... if you make these changes, you nerf ECM so much there is no reason to ever bring one on any robot in MWO's metagame. If your intention is to make the ECM useless and make MWO matches a more shallow experience, then you're on the right track. As a former game designer myself I implore you, please do not take the easy road on this and think carefully through the downstream implications of your decision.


Thanks,

Signed.

[Jacob Dieffenbach]

Two thoughts:

Woo, I don't know if other people suggested it but I independently suggested the hardpoint idea! Not for the Ravens or Spiders, but for the Atlases and Cicadas. Knowing where to shoot is as huge a nerf as knowing to aim for the right torso on an Atlas to kill its big gun.

Second, while I do agree that if ECM was allowed on every 'Mech, it would diminish the value of those 'Mechs designed to hold the ECM like the 3L, I ALSO think that there's a very simple and logical solution: make the ability to add ECM to a 'Mech require a module slot.

Want an ECM on a Catapult C1? You have to buy the "ECM Compatability" module for 15,000,000 C-bills and 15,000 GXP. Once you have it though you can equip it on your Catapult.

And the advantage the 3L and DDC and whatnot would have is that they wouldn't need the module--they'd have the hardpoint available by default.

In fact, I think a lot of pieces of equipment could use this system.

As an alternative method, they could have it in the Upgrades screen, like the DHS and Endo Steel. Make it so the Raven 3L comes equipped with the "ECM Compatible" upgrade. I don't know how they'd balance that and make it so it's not an even more mandatory upgrade than DHS. Maybe make the 'Mech less Heat efficient since it's using power for the ECM systems? But anyway, I think that could work.

Of course, I'm also fine having certain 'Mechs use the ECM. It's good having it so when you see a Raven crest a hill, you know it's going to have ECM. If every 'Mech could do it, you'd never know who to aim for.

[Stalkerr]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 03 April 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

He is.

I am not actually kidding. I don't kid on feedback posts.

[Rofl]

It's been said before, it cannot be said enough. Allow ECM on every mech for a month and see what happens. See what mechs don't take it, see what mechs still take LRMs and Streaks.

[INSEkT L0GIC]

Hmm, would be nice to sweep a TAG into an ECM bubble brawl to light up friendlies for your side as well as enemies.

[Rofl]

Vassago Rain, on 03 April 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

I'm gonna bring out my crystalball again. Due to needless whining over a system that worked, and instead of adding fun stuff to let you cut through it/mod the system/customize your mechs, we get locked ECM modules.

This will result in at least one full ****** mech with ECM in the leg, or an atlas with it locked in the left arm, which screws over builds that were established 8 months ago. Which makes these mechs unpopular. Which makes warbosses rarer than they already are, while the ECM mechs without ******** hardpoint locks (you know one raven will not have it locked in a silly place) become the new hotness.

Then you'll all complain, but the former warbosses will be too busy poptarting in our highlanders to care this time.

Feel free to quote me on this in a month, when they throw in this change.

Agreed that fixed hardpoints is a very stupid way of handling this.

[HRR Insanity]

There are no reasonable counters to multiple opponent 'Mechs with ECM. Smart teams will always take multiple 'Mechs with ECM. ECM combined with Streaks... still far too strong vs. lights.

The complete and total ECM design fail continues.

[Jungle Rhino]

Wait so the new plan is to shoot a small ecm module off a raven moving at 150kmph

*golf clap*

[FupDup]

Jungle Rhino, on 03 April 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

Wait so the new plan is to shoot a small ecm module off a raven moving at 150kmph

*golf clap*

Crit-seek them to death with your Flamers, Machine Guns, and soon Narc Beacons!

[Stoicblitzer]

knowing which component the ECM is in helps a lot. however, it would take some time to destroy it so not a huge deal imo. if they force the D-DC to put it in it's right torso, that would be a big deal as that would kill the AC/20 (doubt they would do it). No longer disrupting radar and still being able to see where friendlies are is pretty huge imo. In pugs, that reduces noob confusion greatly.

[DegeneratePervert]

My friendlies will be back on the radar, even under ECM? Well, that settles one of my main gripes.

[Jabilo]

I think ECM is fine right now.

If the Streak damage comes back up then maybe we need to continue to evaluate it.

You have waited this long (months) to address it, so lets wait a little more before we do something we regret.

Once missiles are sorted lets look at ECM balance.

On the whole I think locking ECM in place is NOT really a good idea.

As someone pointed out in another thread, designing mechs is half the game. Limiting choice and variety in the mech building process may not be a good idea.

[Serpentine]

I'm proud to run a RVN-3L with Streaks and ECM... but I always chip in and support my team by countering any enemy ECM and rolling with my team instead of going off elsewhere.

Really, I feel guilty for using it, now.

Edited by Serpentine, 03 April 2013 - 02:45 PM.

[CutterWolf]

Wow, really? That's it? Nothing about how your new vision modes just buffed ECM so now ECM mechs can close to point blank range without fear or cap bases even easier now? What about the fact that PPC's EMP effect only effects ECM mechs?? Does that seem right to anyone else? That only ECM is effected by that EMP effect? I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere that it effects "all" mechs electronics carrying ECM or not.

Description

The Particle Projector Cannon (or PPC) is a unique energy weapon. PPCs fire a concentrated stream of protons or ions at a target, causing damage through both thermal and kinetic energy. As such, despite being an energy weapon, it produces recoil. The lethality of the weapon rivals that of a higher-caliber autocannon; just three shots from a PPC will vaporize two tons of standard military-grade armor. Targets hit by multiple, simultaneous PPCs can also suffer electrical side-effects, such as overloaded computer systems or targeting sensors.

Edited by CutterWolf, 03 April 2013 - 02:44 PM.