OK - where to start.
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As I stated earlier, that I couldn't comment on the state of ECM in the game until I had 2 additional counter measures implemented into the game. This was to avoid frustration in the community without having all features in place before I discussed the situation.
OK, fair enough - but the sheer blackout of ECM talk in the meantime was just as detrimental Paul.
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ECM brought a whole new level of strategy and skill to the battlefield and is something that we've been striving to achieve instead of flat plane, long range combat. It brought the need to be aware of your surroundings and assist team mates in a way that previous MechWarrior titles didn't have. Teams will now have to work together to counter the effects of ECM and as of February 15th, the new counters allow for multiple attack vectors against the system.
New strategy? Which new strategy? Being able to not appear to the enemy radar? MW4 had this, it was called Passive Radar and it came with a disadvantage that you could not get the enemy on radar.
Teams need to work together to counter ECM. How? All fire at it? people focused fuire anyway. Using TAG? People do nto tage for each other - LRM boats carry thier own TAG to target. That is NOT teamwork Paul.
PPCs cutting out ECM - vs an Atlas, sure, Vs fast movers - even with hit detection increased its going to be hit an miss how useful that reall is (no pun intended)
This is a system that STOPS lock on HARD. All counters to it require a supreme amount of teamwork to happen. Also, most of them are only moderatly useful, or useful in select situations.
You wanted to stop things being snipewarrior online when you talk about long range, or was it the LRMs? LRMs were the chief offender so fix the causes not the symptoms.
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With the increase of projectile speeds and reduction in hit-detection issues, you will notice that a lot more ballistic/laser shots are on target. There are even more and bigger improvments coming down the pipe very soon in terms of hit-detection. These aspects combined with the actual ECM counters (PPC/Advanced Sensor Range) implemented put ECM VERY close to where we want it to be; a very frightful piece of equipment that is powerful and versitle while at the same time has its weaknesses (3 health and soon to be hardpoint limited, see below).
Good, hit detection was certainly one of the major factos in ECM effectivness - and also Raven hit boxes i think?
The health thing though ... ECM is useful for a loooooong time before there is ANY chance you are going to blow that bit off. By the time you have ripped out a torso the battle is probably nearly over anyway and that tiny tonnage cost for ECM has done its value 10 times over. Not a fix Paul - a tiny tweak that will never make anyone consider if they should, or should not take ECM.
Your weaknesses are not practical weaknesses. No one will ever come out of a match saying - well that ECM went down quick. No one will ever hover over ECM and thing - maybe i will not take it for an extra heat sink and some armour. No one will ever feel the location thier ECM is in is going to be targeted - except the Atlas - for fast movers who are not fools you just hope to hit the right place because it is nearly impossible to land the hot on the toro you desire.
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The Guardian ECM was released at the same time as the Raven Light Mech. The Raven 3L required the ECM/BAP systems as they were the main functionality of the variant. As mentioned above, the ECM really only affects 2 weapon systems. We measured the gameplay consequences against the gameplay benefits and it became clear to us that the benefits that it brought to the table would help stagger the ranges in which combat takes place. It was at this time that we decided to go ahead with the Raven/ECM launch. During this time through Beta, we knew that this would become a hot topic, but at the same time, we wanted to make sure players got used to and adapted to ECM being used in the game.
Stagger ranges? LRMs were the only things causing major stand offs not other long range weapons. With ECM it ends up in a brawl MUCH more quickly on the original smaller maps. You went from LRM warrior to brawling overnight if people worked as a team as you say - or the side without ECM gets screwed by the ECM guys hiding thier own LRMs etc. The randomness of your teammates is glorious huh.
Why didnt you just implement passive radar instead? Seriously - I am baffled.
Also - only effects two weapons systems. This means it only does not effect one missile system out of three. How many missile hardpoints are there on mechs Paul? And why hammer those weapons systems .... hmmm i wonder, beause they were proving to be OP? Then why not work on THOSE to make them viable but not rediculous? Band aid solutions.
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First, hit detection on all Mechs was off quite a bit. This was exasperated by high speed Mechs with ping related issues causing the visual targeting and hit results to be highly inconsistent. This has been reduced significantly and with an upcoming patch, you will notice an even more drastic fix to the problem (state rewinding as addressed by Bryan and Matt C. in another Command Chair post). What does this have to do with ECM? With state rewind going into the game, it is VERY possible to take down any high-speed Mech as long as you have the aim because where you aim is going to be where you hit. ECM or not, high-speed Mechs are in for a world of hurt that they are currently not used to.
Agreed that hit detection will help a heck of a lot and I hope it is enough. However conceptually ECM is still a very odd bird.
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Second, ECM counters were needed to bring it in line with where we wanted it to be. It took us some time to get these systems online because 1) We had some higher priority pressure items to deal with first and 2) we needed to make sure that all counters (especially modules) work correctly across the network. Now that they are in, you will notice that ECM is not as big of an issue as it was before. Putting a PPC shot on an ECM equipped Mech makes them very vulnerable for 4 seconds... but not only that, you have also put a lot of damage into that Mech. The “Advanced Sensor Range” module allows you to get a lock on an ECM Mech at a longer distance and S-SRMs/LRMs can be fired in a larger window than before.
I feel like a single peice of equipment will dictage module choices for many mechs and even then they are of limited benefit. Incremental benefits to try to make ECM less powerful seems liek you are stuck on the Idea that ECM is perfect the way it is and you are now revolving the entire meta game around it which seems like very poor game design to me - i am not an expert on game design but thats how it FEELs to me.
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- ECM should have a dedicated hardpoint (tonnage/space does not change). That way ECM will always be in a known location on a Mech and can be directly targeted by attackers.
So ECM atlases have a slight issue to deal with, 3L Raven is going to be running around with his Streaks as usual. The hit detection is far far far far FAR more important than this.
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- ECM should not cut out friendly signatures on the battlefield. Friendly Mechs should always be identifiable and not obscure team play.
Good, that is irritating. Competative teams can compensate but its just anti-fun for all involved.
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In summary, the points you make do not resonate with me and I imagine with many people in the community. Your justifications are glib and hardly go into any detail. There are heaps of ways the e-war system could have been implemented in a better way. there are hundreds of ideas out there that are more interested and complex and less single item oriented.
The sensor warfare system should be soemthing that a team WITHOUT ECM should be able to undertake using cover, passive/active sensors, vision modes, etc. Why not tinker with the existing system then make ECM an awesome upgrade that would make certian aspects of the sensor warfare game stronger?
To place all your faith in a single chassis limted item to control staggering of ranges as you put it is mind boggling.
Why can I not be a scout in a Spider without ECM? Why must i glow like a beacon as soon as i leave cover? Why cannot appearing on radar be a delayed action depending on your chassis size? There is just a single way that you could have made stealth more viable for EVERYONE.
This is the feedback thread. My feedback has been given. This SAME FEEDBACK has been given many times over the last month from MANY people. You finally break silence and NONE of the real issues have been addressed that have been brought up time and time again.
This is why i post less. I still play when I can but when I see good strong feedback given in well meaning and logical tones (not by me by many others) then i see an official communication here that avoids the issue yet again - its just so disheartening Paul. I know it might feel like we are trying to tear you down and all the devs but we are not. We really care. I love the game mostly but your communications are always what bring on the wrath of the community,
The lack of empathy once again shown to those who have real greviances vs ECM have been ignored. This will mean that few will show you any empathy back.
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Dexter Herbivore, on 03 April 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:
