354 replies to this topic

[Master Maniac]

Infernus1986, on 06 April 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

implying what I want matters
PGI is adding 3rd person its quite clear they want the game to be an arcade shoot'emup.

Oh for the love of gobstoppers, 3rd person ISN'T THAT MUCH OF AN ADVANTAGE STOP WHINING GOODNESS GRACIOUS. Go play some MW4. You have almost the same field of view. It's not some amazing omniscient deity camera. You just hate MechAssault. That's okay. I hate MechAssault, too. But really, now. Really. Deep breaths.

Regarding the "little avatars" thing. It doesn't matter. The point is that this is a beta skeleton at this point, with the intention of eventually including the Houses and, possibly, mercs and merc companies. So, yes, you are part of some faction. This ain't MW4 Mercs or even MW2 Mercs. It's a hopeless battle. Give in. Make your time.

[MustrumRidcully]

DirePhoenix, on 06 April 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

So you DO want this game to stay an arcade shoot'emup then?

If it's that or Repair & Rearm, I pick arcade shoot'emup. It's more fun that way.

[Infernus1986]

Master Maniac, on 06 April 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Oh for the love of gobstoppers, 3rd person ISN'T THAT MUCH OF AN ADVANTAGE STOP WHINING GOODNESS GRACIOUS. Go play some MW4. You have almost the same field of view. It's not some amazing omniscient deity camera. You just hate MechAssault. That's okay. I hate MechAssault, too. But really, now. Really. Deep breaths.

I'm not arguing about 3rd person I'm just saying you can't get much more arcade shoot'em up than 3rd person cool your jets and keep it on topic.
Also I bought both mech assaults and enjoyed them tho no where near as much as other MW games besides this.

R&R is not coming back they have already commented that they are working on something else to eat cbills in place of R&R.
What that is we will just have to wait and see.

Edited by Infernus1986, 06 April 2013 - 01:16 PM.

[Master Maniac]

Infernus1986, on 06 April 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

I'm not arguing about 3rd person I'm just saying you can't get much more arcade shoot'em up than 3rd person cool your jets and keep it on topic.
Also I bought both mech assaults and enjoyed them tho no where near as much as other MW games besides this.

Oh, relax, I was (mostly) playing up the exasperation. To be fair, the original MA wasn't that bad. It didn't upset me that it wasn't MW. MA 2 killed me with the Korn music and the giant spider boss. So, so dreadful.

[Spudbuddy]

Master Maniac, on 06 April 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Oh for the love of gobstoppers, 3rd person ISN'T THAT MUCH OF AN ADVANTAGE STOP WHINING GOODNESS GRACIOUS. Go play some MW4. You have almost the same field of view. It's not some amazing omniscient deity camera. You just hate MechAssault. That's okay. I hate MechAssault, too. But really, now. Really. Deep breaths.

Regarding the "little avatars" thing. It doesn't matter. The point is that this is a beta skeleton at this point, with the intention of eventually including the Houses and, possibly, mercs and merc companies. So, yes, you are part of some faction. This ain't MW4 Mercs or even MW2 Mercs. It's a hopeless battle. Give in. Make your time.

it really is an amazing omniscient god-view, you can't just teleport behind people who hide behind a hill third person viewing the entire open map. Alpine, forest colony, moon city thing, caustine, tourmaline, to all these maps it's a yes, and river city barely dodges the list.

[anonymous175]

In it's current incarnation, no.

If it was Battletech Online, yes.

[Livebait]

I'm missing a game that works and is fun to play.

[Sudden Reversal]

What people don't seem to understand is that the previous incarnation of R&R was not the be all and end all, it was still in flux and the values were in need of tweaking. I seriously in all honesty when it was removed, fully expected it to come back after adjustment and to think that it will not be in is strike one for MWO. Strike two is ECM and although at least the jury is still out and they have promised modification it's not looking promising.

PGI threw the baby out with the bath water when they got rid of Repair and Rearm aka Risk and Reward wholesale and this game is all the more poorer for it.

[Wintersdark]

Roadbeer, on 06 April 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

I completely agree. R&R didn't just mean Repair & Rearm, but also Risk and Reward.

But I do get that it made an aspect of the New Player Experience horrendous.

I hope to see it again some day, then you get to juggle the R&R and consumable cost when dropping.

"Well, lets see, that cost me 205,000 CBills, and I made 174,000... maybe I shouldn't spam LRMs in the hope of a hit."

No, because that's not what happened.

What happened was people would enter matches in a busted *** unrepaired Centurion with only it's two medium lasers CT and no side torsos or arms, thereby screwing their own team so they could farm income with no R&R fees.

Also, do you find people spamming LRM's is a problem currently? lol.

It's not risk and reward. It just didn't pan out that way. There's some serious rose coloured glasses going on here. I miss the concept, too, but not the implementation. It just didn't add anything valuable to the game.

[Roadbeer]

Wintersdark, on 06 April 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

No, because that's not what happened.

What happened was people would enter matches in a busted *** unrepaired Centurion with only it's two medium lasers CT and no side torsos or arms, thereby screwing their own team so they could farm income with no R&R fees.

Also, do you find people spamming LRM's is a problem currently? lol.

It's not risk and reward. It just didn't pan out that way. There's some serious rose coloured glasses going on here. I miss the concept, too, but not the implementation. It just didn't add anything valuable to the game.

Again... nobody is saying that what we HAD was a good system, just a good concept.

Good concept + Bad Implementation = Bad Concept.

Edited by Roadbeer, 06 April 2013 - 01:48 PM.

[Sybreed]

Roadbeer, on 06 April 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

Again... nobody is saying that what we HAD was a good system, just a good concept.

Good concept + Bad Implementation = Bad Concept.

funny how people are having a hard time understanding this?

[Nick Drezary]

Sudden Reversal, on 06 April 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

What people don't seem to understand is that the previous incarnation of R&R was not the be all and end all, it was still in flux and the values were in need of tweaking. I seriously in all honesty when it was removed, fully expected it to come back after adjustment and to think that it will not be in is strike one for MWO. Strike two is ECM and although at least the jury is still out and they have promised modification it's not looking promising.

PGI threw the baby out with the bath water when they got rid of Repair and Rearm aka Risk and Reward wholesale and this game is all the more poorer for it.

While being the strongets, lagshield protected class, light mechs had almost no risk and maximum reward, while assault had maximum risk and almost no reward. Yeah, thats the system we need!

[Roadbeer]

Sybreed, on 06 April 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

funny how people are having a hard time understanding this?

I know, right?

"YOUR VIEWS ARE DIFFERENT THAN MINE, I DIDN'T REALLY READ WHAT ANYONE SAID, I'M JUST GOING TO TYPE IN CAPITAL LETTERS AND PULL "FACTS" OUT OF MY BUTT TO SUPPORT MY OPINION"

[Sudden Reversal]

Wintersdark, on 06 April 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

No, because that's not what happened.

What happened was people would enter matches in a busted *** unrepaired Centurion with only it's two medium lasers CT and no side torsos or arms, thereby screwing their own team so they could farm income with no R&R fees.

Also, do you find people spamming LRM's is a problem currently? lol.

It's not risk and reward. It just didn't pan out that way. There's some serious rose coloured glasses going on here. I miss the concept, too, but not the implementation. It just didn't add anything valuable to the game.

I'm sorry but how is this any different to going on a suicide charge, raking lasers over as many targets as you can then blowing up so that you can drop again in another Mech? If you side ends up winning even better, if not well you can't actually lose money or not gain 50k+ c-bills at least so no harm? Right? Except maybe to the quality of the game as a whole.

At least with an unrepaired Mech you can easily tell who is not contributing and black mark them. Much harder to determine when someone kamikazes if they are farming or simply a poor or unfortunate player.

[Wintersdark]

Sybreed, on 06 April 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

funny how people are having a hard time understanding this?

No... The problem is that it's trivially easy to sit here and say that, but introducing a GOOD system is not a trivial undertaking.

This would be eating designer and programmer time, that would otherwise be allocated to Community Warfare.

Then, after implementation, there would be all sorts of problems resulting in a totally ***ked up meta (yeah, there are issues now, but this would make it WORSE). If there was a way to introduce a system that isn't fundamentally flawed.

You see, the system would need to be designed first with an eye to how it can be abused. Because if I elect to not repair my mech, I screw my teammates. I save money in repairs, my teammates suffer because I've just reduced the combat effectiveness of my team.

I get wanting it. I do. I love it conceptually as well.

But the hard truth of the matter is that there's really just not a good way to implement it off hand, and there's no free development time to add something that will most likely only add a smidge of immersion but at the cost of almost certainly punishing new players more than old players and creating tons of quasi-exploits.

As a development studio, PGI/IGP have to consider the cost-benefit analysis of every new feature added. What does R&R bring, and what does it cost? It has a whole lot of fixed(original design, development, testing) and ongoing(balancing, increased balancing costs whenever other interrelated things in the game change) costs. Benefit? Just a bit of immersion. You can't use it to balance things, because then you lead to a "The Rich Get Richer, the Poor Get Poorer" system.

This is not a hard choice.

[Wintersdark]

Sudden Reversal, on 06 April 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

I'm sorry but how is this any different to going on a suicide charge, raking lasers over as many targets as you can then blowing up so that you can drop again in another Mech? If you side ends up winning even better, if not well you can't actually lose money or not gain 50k+ c-bills at least so no harm? Right? Except maybe to the quality of the game as a whole.

This does suck, and it's a bad thing. It would still happen, though, R&R would just add more ways to abuse things.

Your argument here is profoundly ignorant. "Because there's one stupid broken thing people can do in the game, there's no reason to not add more stupid broken things."

Quote

At least with an unrepaired Mech you can easily tell who is not contributing and black mark them. Much harder to determine when someone kamikazes if they are farming or simply a poor or unfortunate player.

Black mark them? How does this help anything at all? You could say "Well, there's that Bob fellow who didn't repair his Dragon." Ok... and? What do you do? You complain on the forums? Maybe he couldn't afford to repair his Dragon. Maybe he didn't understand how.

Being able to tell who isn't contributing is useless.

[malibu43]

I don't miss R&R at all. It was way more P2W than any of the consumables or hero mechs.

[Sudden Reversal]

Wintersdark, on 06 April 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

This does suck, and it's a bad thing. It would still happen, though, R&R would just add more ways to abuse things.

Your argument here is profoundly ignorant. "Because there's one stupid broken thing people can do in the game, there's no reason to not add more stupid broken things."


Black mark them? How does this help anything at all? You could say "Well, there's that Bob fellow who didn't repair his Dragon." Ok... and? What do you do? You complain on the forums? Maybe he couldn't afford to repair his Dragon. Maybe he didn't understand how.

Being able to tell who isn't contributing is useless.

Your missing the point. There are ways to wrought the system regardless of R&R not matter the number so using it a reason to refute it is futile.

I am not boiling R&R down to a 'stupid broken thing' however, I believe implemented properly it adds way more to this game. In actuality, in my case it gave me more reason to play smart in game as there was a real cost for not performing at peak and maintaining concentration and having some restraint when the situation demanded it.

Now if the phone rings or the cooking needs attention there is zero negative consequences (for me) to my just walking away from the PC. It's only your game play that is impacted. With R&R it is a different story.

By the by, I never used the 75% ammo refill and always auto repaired and rearmed. I also ran whatever build I wanted regardless and more often than not was sporting an XL engine. Sure, dying cost me...meant I had to play smarter. It also meant that I had a better load out than many equivalent mechs I was facing because they didn't want to take the risk.

R&R added depth and that can only be a good thing. Detractors just want a simpler game for the lowest common denominator.

Edited by Sudden Reversal, 06 April 2013 - 02:37 PM.

[LethalMezzle]

No, even though theoretically the same rate of C-Bill earning could be the same as before, but I prefer the game without R&R; it just felt rather annoying, for lack of better explanation.

[Henree]

Petrothian Tong, on 06 April 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

now I have fun playing different mechs losing does not matter, in fact even if i lose i win, this is FUN! I can afford everything

fixed.