1386 replies to this topic

[Kmieciu]

The sad part is, if we got a hero Spider with 2x Medium laser in each arm, it would be a very deadly skirmisher and many people would cry it is overpowered. Yet a Spider with 2x Machinegun in each arm has to be a "support" mech that needs his teammates to be effective.
Well guess what - the best way to support your team is to inflict as much damage as accurately as possible. A mech that is mostly harmless as long as you have your armor is not even a good distraction. Only a newbie that does not know the crit system works will pay any attention.
The machineguns might work, if the damage bonus worked against internal HP. Or if whey could crit the gyro or the engine. Right now the machineguns are still not worth their weight.

[Leafia Barrett]

My primary suggestion is to get rid of the cone of fire. I mean come on, this is 3050 and we're in giant mechs, you'd think they'd have learns how to make the damn things shoot straight. Seeing them implemented as actual ballistics would be cool too, but I think the biggest thing is to just make them accurate.

[SixBottles]

yeah and get rid of the firing animation... those big blobs are irratating... maybe they could up the bullet-impact graphic effects abit... more particles n stuff, so u could blind the enemy abit (suppressing fire)

[Liberator]

Machine guns could need some more love, not much, but at least some.
Soon mortars will come and we can forget the mg.

But in all fairness, even if it is against tt the mg should see a boost in dps that brings it into medium laser levels of damage, drop the stupid crit seeker bonus gimmic, that ammo is heavy and explodes, that is a serious drawback.
As others have pointed out, this is a beta and developers are allowed to gently caress around with weapon values, much more than they currently do.

[Doelloos Verdwaald]

Actually the crit mechanic is a great balance tool.
I'd even advocate critting through armor.

Energy and ballistic weapons are balanced against heat and ammo. Without the crit mechanic nothing would counter boating ppc or ac20's. With the risk of losing heatsinks and ammo being hit people need to think more about building their mechs. You'd want cooler back-up weapons and need to think seriously how much explosive ammo you'd want to stash.

Only then you get a interesting dynamic of mixed weapons. You can use case to save your CT but if all your ammo is in there you'd need a backup either as a energy weapon or 'dangerous' unprotected ammo.

Without these layers on top of gameplay it will quickly degenerate into the 'Hulk smash' huge alpha mechanic we're stuck with now.

Edited by Doelloos Verdwaald, 06 June 2013 - 01:08 AM.

[ICEFANG13]

You know its funny. I actually think that, with range and no heat, and not having to accommodate for flight, I think a MG is better than a SRM-2 now. I was doing loads better with a 4MG+PPC/LPL Cicada than with a 4SL+2SRM4 Jenner. They really need to remove spread though, its just dumb.

[Deathlike]

ICEFANG13, on 06 June 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

You know its funny. I actually think that, with range and no heat, and not having to accommodate for flight, I think a MG is better than a SRM-2 now. I was doing loads better with a 4MG+PPC/LPL Cicada than with a 4SL+2SRM4 Jenner. They really need to remove spread though, its just dumb.

The only useful SRM2 in use is the Streak SRM2.

[TheComet]

I finally picked up my Jaget JM6-DD last night....and was immediately disappointed.

2x Large Pulse Lasers and 6x MG, I was steamrolled because even against unarmored opponents, they just walked over me as my brawling range DPS was pitiful and it didn't even seem like any components I destroyed were worth a damn.

Doesn't help that the playerbase is pretty heavy on energy weapons still, those are basically a super HARD counter to any crit seeking build since heat sinks and energy weapons don't explode when destroyed.

At least my other jager got a free XL engine :/

edit: before you call me out on the XL Engine, I actually swapped it out for a faster STD engine, so it isn't because of side torso damage.

Edited by TheComet, 06 June 2013 - 01:09 PM.

[Leafia Barrett]

Someone in one of my matches brought up an interesting thought. What if MGs were capable of destroying missiles in mid-flight?

[stjobe]

Leafia Barrett, on 07 June 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

Someone in one of my matches brought up an interesting thought. What if MGs were capable of destroying missiles in mid-flight?

A missile has 1 health, what do you expect your 0.08 MG bullets are going to do over an engagement envelope of about a second? Kill a single missile?

To be effective in destroying missiles, the MG needs a damage buff. See a pattern yet?

[Leafia Barrett]

stjobe, on 07 June 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

A missile has 1 health, what do you expect your 0.08 MG bullets are going to do over an engagement envelope of about a second? Kill a single missile?

To be effective in destroying missiles, the MG needs a damage buff. See a pattern yet?

Okay, so missiles DO have a health value. I thought it was either destroyed or not.

[stjobe]

Leafia Barrett, on 07 June 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

Okay, so missiles DO have a health value. I thought it was either destroyed or not.

Fun fact: The AMS does 3.5 DPS, the MG does 0.4 - I only wish I could trick my targeting computer into somehow believing that the enemy 'mechs are LRMs and I would have a very effective MG on most of them.

[Bagheera]

TheComet, on 06 June 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

I finally picked up my Jaget JM6-DD last night....and was immediately disappointed.

2x Large Pulse Lasers and 6x MG, I was steamrolled because even against unarmored opponents, they just walked over me as my brawling range DPS was pitiful and it didn't even seem like any components I destroyed were worth a damn.

Doesn't help that the playerbase is pretty heavy on energy weapons still, those are basically a super HARD counter to any crit seeking build since heat sinks and energy weapons don't explode when destroyed.

At least my other jager got a free XL engine :/

edit: before you call me out on the XL Engine, I actually swapped it out for a faster STD engine, so it isn't because of side torso damage.

You got to go with 2 er-ppcs, 300xl, endo, etc. The LPL are cool, but you need the reach of the ppcs to get anything done before closing range. Also, they are better for stripping off armor and letting the MGs do their "work."

It's still a joke build, technically, but one that can put up big dmg numbers - albeit the damage isn't really very effective because of the spread.

Decreasing the spread might help, but "crit seeking" is still a dubious goal at best.

[Iacov]

since the buff i get more and more "finisher" kills...so whilst my pulse lasers do the armor-stripping role...the "dps" of the machine guns starts to be a threat to the enemy, especially usefull, when you have to avoid overheating and you are still able to dish out the last points of damage needed to destroy the enemy mech

wish the dps was a bit higher
but definately a very welcome improvement!

[HammerSwarm]

Dear devs,

We are all still using this gun and are still disappointed. I think that we're close to what is reasonable.
I think the 3 wants here are:

• A damage boost to 1.0 DPS (1.0 DPS is what I think is reasonable, others may disagree)
  
• Remove the cone of fire completely.
  
• Make this a projectile weapon, not hit-scan.

In my opinion it was probably made hit-scan because of the similar mechanics of a laser and a rapid firing machine gun. Even if you had to slow the firing, and increase the damage per projectile firing twice or faster than the AC 2 would make the machine gun feel like a machine gun while being a bit easier on the back end tracking all of those projectiles.

[FupDup]

http://mwomercs.com/...te-june-112013/


Woot woot! MG buff to 0.1 per bullet (and Flamers up to 0.7 but those are supposed to heat people up...). Now the 2MG on my K2 will be slightly less terrible!

Edited by FupDup, 11 June 2013 - 01:36 PM.

[stjobe]

FupDup, on 11 June 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...te-june-112013/


Woot woot! MG buff to 0.1 per bullet (and Flamers up to 0.7 but those are supposed to heat people up...). Now the 2MG on my K2 will be slightly less terrible!

Now if they only removed the spread, MGs would actually be okay. But with spread still in... Can't damage what you can't hit, can't hit what you can't aim at, and you can't aim with random freaking spread.

P.S. So the SSRM "bones" are at joints, eh? Well, WE FREAKING TOLD YOU THAT MONTHS AGO.

[BootHands]

FupDup, on 11 June 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...te-june-112013/


Woot woot! MG buff to 0.1 per bullet (and Flamers up to 0.7 but those are supposed to heat people up...). Now the 2MG on my K2 will be slightly less terrible!

This change would be much better if the only thing in it was the MG and flamer buff. Hurting boats just for the sake of hurting boats is assy.

[shintakie]

So close PGI. So close to a viable MG! Just take out the spread and .02 more damage per bullet and we'll have ourselves a winner.

[Lord of All]

Not to go off topic but why increase damage on the flamer and not heat? flamers were never designed to cause damage except as a byproduct of forcing overheating.

AFA the MG buff well are you guys gonna wait for the patch or start QQ'ing before it that it's not enough? (I know I'm being sucked into the baitfest mentality).

shintakie, on 12 June 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

So close PGI. So close to a viable MG! Just take out the spread and .02 more damage per bullet and we'll have ourselves a winner.

Woops just noticed it's already started.