137 replies to this topic

[Mercules]

I do go back when in a fast mech. I tend to play speedier mechs so that is usually always. However, there are a good many times when I can't do it myself. In many cases I am leveling up a less potent mech and the mech I am running into is a tweeked RVN-3L. I might not have unlocked the various perks or even have upgraded the mech itself all the way.

So when I am in a SDR-5K that I need to level to master a different Spider there is very little chance I am, "Stopping" the cap when I run into a JR7-D and RVN-3L standing on the cap. Heck, in my TBT-7K built for fire support I am fast, but I have very little chance of being able to hold off those two lights for very long while standing still in a box.

Don't rely on 1 light to stop a cap. It is rarely 1 mech and if it does turn out to be something like a fast Centurion that slipped back there that light might not be able to stick to the box. What that fast light gives you a chance to do is get someone slower back there with more firepower.

In a nutshell it is not the Light pilot's "job" to keep the cap clear it is the whole damn team's job. Yes the lights do go a long way toward it hopefully finding the enemy light before they ever reach it, but everyone on the team loses when the cap goes. We don't lose when one of you dies, at least not automatically. Lights go back, but the others need to use some brains and do a tactical retreat.

[Red3]

So am I the only one who sees that the OP says he plays a Cicada, and is complaining that other people dont go back to protect the base?

[Noobzorz]

Red3, on 10 April 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

So am I the only one who sees that the OP says he plays a Cicada, and is complaining that other people dont go back to protect the base?

I am presuming that he goes back to base and is annoyed by all the people who don't.

[Oni Ralas]

Aleksanteri Bekker, on 10 April 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Machines. Not Robots. Go play Hawken.

Some mechs have auto-pilot and guidance functions. They're robots by that definition.

Hawken's machines do not have the same level of tech on the guidance systems. If anything...they are less "robotic" than 3050 MW

Edited by Oni Ralas, 10 April 2013 - 11:54 AM.

[Red3]

Ya gotta admit a reading fail on my part,he does also say he's been playing a heavy lately... my bad.

[Jman5]

Quote

If you're in a heavy or assault mech, there's a fair chance you will be more effective fending off a lone light mech than any light or medium mech on the team. It will be hard for you to run halfway across the map and return to base in time to defend, but you could just stand still on the base from the start.

You may argue that as a assault mech, you're too valuable to the team to just stand around and defend base. But by this argument, you're basically saying that the light mech is less valuable than an assault mech, and that the team would be better off with 8 assault mechs. After all, if an Atlas DDC with 3 Streaks can defend base against enemy light mechs (and honestly, it will do much better than any light mech), why shouldn't it?

So if this Atlas can defend base better than any light mech, how come no one does that? Well, because just standing around and defending is boring. And people want to play the game in a manner that is fun

Because sitting on the base all game in the hopes that something comes by is a stupid strategy unless you're on a smaller map like River City. Most games do not end in base capturing, so the entire game would be essentially a 7v8. A faster mech on the other hand can come up to the front lines and then run back without missing a beat.

Look, it's a simple matter of transit time. A fast mech can run back and forth without much downtime in transit. An assault cannot. So instead of having 3 minutes of being a man down, you're only a man down for 1.5 minutes.

And yes, in a brawl a big mech with much higher damage, and much higher armor is more valuable. So yes, the team is better off with the assault staying at the front lines.

[Max Power]

Ransack, on 10 April 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

Wouldn't be all this capping going on if the bases had defenses like they were supposed to.

For me, if I'm in a light or medium, and I'm not with the main group, I probably won't go back to the base either. I would most likely be on or headed to their base. Why? because there have been many times when I ran back to the base thinking that I would chase away the light, and got a face full of Gauss and SRM's from the Assault mechs that were really there. I can understand why lights and mediums don't always go back. If you ask me, you should include those fast heavies in this. They are just as capable of base sweeping as mediums and lights.

I can totally agree with this. It sucks going back to base thinking it's just a light, when it turns out to be a Steiner scout lance.

And you are right, fast heavies, hell fast anything should shoulder the responsibility of going back to defend the cap.

[Target Rich]

Wow...yet another no brainer generating huge volumes of seriously heated mouth wash..

Basic complaint...all those terrible light mechs are not running like the little flights of fancy they are to protect the base while the fat and sassy Assault and Heavy mechs toe to toe it in the firefight in the middle...

And...sorry to say...there needs to be a couple of reality checks here...

First...let me see again...virtually ALL of your CBills and Xperience points are earned how? Oh yea...strictly by how much damage you do in the match...Winning doesn't or sitting there picking your nose at thebase or even capturing those flags doesn't actually do much of squat...for progressing and earning squat. Therefore...that horrible selfish light is doing EXACTLY what they are there to do...earn CBills and advancement points by doing as much damage as they can...

Secondly...let me think...ohh this is tough...If you are to ASSAULT a base...then you have TWO...lets count them TWO ways you can pull it off.... You can outwait the opposition...sit CLOSE to your base and draw them into your kill zone while PROTECTING your base by being close enougy to it to cover it in those nasty slow heavies and assaults...

OR...you run a rush...damn the mines full speed ahead...towards your base and hope that you capture it before the other team does the same to you..

Thus your circle jerk in the middle of the map...is merely a bunch of self absorbed assaults and heavies working to gain their own cBills and experience while they whine and whine...that the lights do not cover their sorry selfish butts...

Did I get that right???

[Mercules]

Max Power, on 10 April 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

Jobs, role. Doesn't matter what you call it. It's a basic tenant of TEAM BASED game play. The different weight classes have different strengths and weaknesses. These determine what role or job they can do best.

I don't know why you are getting so pissed at me. I've never said anything to you, let alone in a condescending manner. I never treat my team like servants. I do treat them like dumbasses if they've earned it though.

It sounds like you are taking this game and the doofuses that play it too seriously. Perhaps you need a break?

Loadout has more to do with "Role" than weight class. The Stock Dragon is designed to be a big "Striker" slipping into flanks and past enemy lines and disrupting them. The Hunchback on the other hand is not meant to be fast but is supposed a "Heavily armored Medium Brawler" that backs up Heavy mechs. With customization we change a lot of that around.

A Raven 2X with a Gauss rifle is "Fire Support" and maybe a "Spotter" but it is not a "Run back to the base and defend it." mech. Since it is unlikely to be fast or be able to defeat another light in a close ranged duck and dodge battle. Is it viable? Yes and no. Not the greatest build, but it was built for a Role and only doesn't work because players assume the whole weight class has a given role which is not true.

[Max Power]

Mercules, on 10 April 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

In a nutshell it is not the Light pilot's "job" to keep the cap clear it is the whole damn team's job. Yes the lights do go a long way toward it hopefully finding the enemy light before they ever reach it, but everyone on the team loses when the cap goes. We don't lose when one of you dies, at least not automatically. Lights go back, but the others need to use some brains and do a tactical retreat.

I can agree with this. A team shouldn't just rely on the lights to do this alone. If the light calls for help, I will help. I've always done this, when feasible.

[LordRush]

I TOTALLY agree with this and whenever a base is attacked, I am there.
Do me a flavor though Heavies and Assaults. When the bell rings and we DO go back, dont follow us and get smoked in the back when the enemy team runs after you. Stay engaged!
We'll call if we need help

Edited by LordRush, 10 April 2013 - 12:01 PM.

[Triple Patte]

This thread reminded me something. Imagine how dumb the average person is. Then realize half of them is dumber than that.

This is why lights don't go back, that's all.

[Max Power]

Target Rich, on 10 April 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

Did I get that right???

No, not really.

[Max Power]

Mercules, on 10 April 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

Loadout has more to do with "Role" than weight class. The Stock Dragon is designed to be a big "Striker" slipping into flanks and past enemy lines and disrupting them. The Hunchback on the other hand is not meant to be fast but is supposed a "Heavily armored Medium Brawler" that backs up Heavy mechs. With customization we change a lot of that around.

A Raven 2X with a Gauss rifle is "Fire Support" and maybe a "Spotter" but it is not a "Run back to the base and defend it." mech. Since it is unlikely to be fast or be able to defeat another light in a close ranged duck and dodge battle. Is it viable? Yes and no. Not the greatest build, but it was built for a Role and only doesn't work because players assume the whole weight class has a given role which is not true.

While I agree that loadout has more to do with Role than weight class, that doesn't change the fact that faster mechs should help defend the base when needed.

And by defend I don't mean sit there the whole time/it's the only thing you can do. They can play however they want. BUT when the other team starts to cap, lights need to help defend. They can help defend without firing a shot, simply by getting to the cap and delaying the capping. That way, slower mechs can make it back to help.

No one is saying you must play it this one way. At least I'm not. All I'm saying is that a smart and or team player in a faster mech will help defend the cap (or help speed cap theirs as an alternative)

You people are getting way too up in arms and putting words in others mouths based on your game play experiences. (not directed at Mercules)

Edited by Max Power, 10 April 2013 - 12:09 PM.

[Jack Lazarus]

Mercules, on 10 April 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

In a nutshell it is not the Light pilot's "job" to keep the cap clear it is the whole damn team's job. Yes the lights do go a long way toward it hopefully finding the enemy light before they ever reach it, but everyone on the team loses when the cap goes. We don't lose when one of you dies, at least not automatically. Lights go back, but the others need to use some brains and do a tactical retreat.

I'm quoting you purely because it's worth repeating. It's not any one person's job to do anything. It is up to the whole team. This is a game. But by the way people are flinging crap at each other in here I would have thought I'd stumbled into something actually serious.

[Alistair Winter]

Jman5, on 10 April 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

Because sitting on the base all game in the hopes that something comes by is a stupid strategy unless you're on a smaller map like River City. Most games do not end in base capturing, so the entire game would be essentially a 7v8. A faster mech on the other hand can come up to the front lines and then run back without missing a beat.
Look, it's a simple matter of transit time. A fast mech can run back and forth without much downtime in transit. An assault cannot. So instead of having 3 minutes of being a man down, you're only a man down for 1.5 minutes.
And yes, in a brawl a big mech with much higher damage, and much higher armor is more valuable. So yes, the team is better off with the assault staying at the front lines.

The difference is, it takes a long time for a light mech to take down another light mech. Have you ever seen a duel between two spiders? It's like watching jellyfish fight. Most of the time, the match is over before either of them have been stripped of paint.

And if the enemy is trying to cap with two light mechs, or two mediums, your 1 light mech defending base is going to die very quickly indeed. How long does it take a couple of light or medium mechs with streaks to kill your 1 light mech. Not very long at all. But an assault mech equipped for defence will survive longer and perhaps even destroy both enemy light mechs.

Is it a problem that you'll potentially be facing 8 enemy mechs with 7 of your own? Yes. But then why aren't you trying to split up the enemy by capping their base? Send 2 mechs to the enemy base, and keep the remaining 5 mechs close enough to your own base to make use of your defending Atlas, for example.




[REDACTED]

Edited by Viterbi, 10 April 2013 - 02:24 PM.
Removed reference to off-topic content

[Willie Sauerland]

Ialti, on 10 April 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Capwarrior.

Forumwarrior.

Jennerwarrior.

Catwarrior.

Is there any other kind of thing y'all would like to deride by placing in front of the word warrior? Just while we're getting it out of the way...

MG...

ECM...

LRM...

AC/20...

PPC...

LLAS...

Light Mech...

Assualt Mech...

SSRM...

Gundam...

Role...

Strategic...

Who cares...

I think that about covers it,

though I'm sure I forgot something...

[Jman5]

Target Rich, on 10 April 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

First...let me see again...virtually ALL of your CBills and Xperience points are earned how? Oh yea...strictly by how much damage you do in the match...Winning doesn't or sitting there picking your nose at thebase or even capturing those flags doesn't actually do much of squat...for progressing and earning squat. Therefore...that horrible selfish light is doing EXACTLY what they are there to do...earn CBills and advancement points by doing as much damage as they can...

1. Capturing a base gives you a fair bit of experience for the time it takes. 325 exp for cap, cap assist and win. Just pure damage does not reward you experience.

2. Mechwarrior Online has a nice little reward called: Defensive Kills

Quote

Defensive Kills: Upon killing an enemy Mech. If that enemy was currently capping a base, anyone who had attacked the capturing Mech within the last 10 seconds will be awarded 7500CBills, and 150XP.

So yes, there is a good incentive and reward for going back and defending the base. You get that reward on top of the normal kill rewards/component destructions/damage/win rewards, so it's doubly good. Again, just to re-iterate. It stacks on top of the normal kill bonus. It's extra for being a good teammate.

Here, I just played a game where a cicada tried capping our base. I ran back and spanked him:

Edited by Jman5, 10 April 2013 - 12:28 PM.

[nabechewan]

Alistair Winter, on 10 April 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

After all, if an Atlas DDC with 3 Streaks can defend base against enemy light mechs (and honestly, it will do much better than any light mech), why shouldn't it?

Wait, really? You want to know why it isn't a good idea for the most heavily equipped mech in a round to leave the front line and sit around the base in the off chance a spider drops by?

[aniviron]

I'll start running back to stop base caps when I stop consistently outdamaging atlases in my RVN-2X. C'mon heavies and assaults, don't have bad aim! Then it wouldn't be "my job" to run run around the map trying so I can sit still in multicolored rectangles.