173 replies to this topic

[Dr Killinger]

Do you truly and honestly think that the people who design and implement new mechs are capable of debugging and fixing engine and UI code? Character artists can fix engine issues in the same way that an aeronautical engineer can perform open heart surgery. Both very clever jobs, but absolutely no overlap.

[Ralgas]

Of all the bugs being complained about in this thread, tell me how many of them do it consistently as well as doing it to everyone.

A few questions before you gripe too loud

There's a thread running atm where a dev's asking for input as to why players may need to delete files and force a full re download, who's bothered to respond?

Have you ever sent in a ticket?

have you bothered to try a fresh install or scans on the game files (heard of a ctd actually corrupting .pak files recently)?

Is your pc malware and virus free?

How much spare memory do you have?

What else is running in the background?

are you running a modified game (user config or sweetFX)?

PGI has to consider this, as well as umpteen OS's and an almost infinite number of hardware combinations.
Most of these have to be looked at before you even touch a line of code, much less find a glitch that may or may not be reproduced on the test servers regularly.

Edited by Ralgas, 15 April 2013 - 11:54 PM.

[DCLXVI]

cant go to bed with 666 posts, hmmm this one. +1

[jay35]

James DeGriz, on 15 April 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

Whenever I see QQ about bugs either here or on the MWO Social Networking feeds, my first thought is "Did you send a bug report?". I do honestly wonder if the people who are vehemently insisting that this game isn't a beta are only doing so as a cop out excuse for not sending bug reports in.

Pretty sure the thing that annoys people most is that bugs that have persisted for months, are well known, and have been submitted, are still present in the product. When they're big enough to prevent a player from successfully playing a match, as half of the HUD bugs are, then those bugs are directly inhibiting the promotion of this product to new audiences, who get frustrated or turned off by the broken state of things they experience. I've certainly seen a few threads here where people report that very result, where they tried to get a friend interested in the game but the constant bugs made the attempt futile and even if they liked it they were inclined to wait and come back when the product actually works consistently.
And those of us who've personally played the game on several different PCs and experience the same issues on all of them, know these bugs are not only frequent, they're common.

Edited by jay35, 16 April 2013 - 04:47 AM.

[Lonestar1771]

jakucha, on 15 April 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

How can you justify complaining about something you have no idea of how it works and likely couldn't do a better job of fixing?

Wow......... care to try again?

[Roadbeer]

Rhent, on 15 April 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

Nope, pointing out a blatant fact. If you don't like facts, its cool go elsewhere. I've done three Betas for major MMO's since 1995, and I've never seen an Open Beta do a major release that wasn't first tested out on a Test Server before going to the main Beta Server. After reading PGI's teasting strategy (hey we'll automate it to run it 16X's), instead of using 200 real life testers, you get an idea of how PGI is doing development.

Its a poor model that is driving away paying subscribers.

Shhhh, it's ok Puddin, MWO will fix your little toy then you can go back outside and play.

[jakucha]

[Redacted]

Lonestar1771, on 16 April 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:

Wow......... care to try again?

You shouldn't assume it's an easy fix, that just makes you look silly.

Edited by Egomane, 16 April 2013 - 06:31 AM.
Removed quote and response to CoC violation

[KuruptU4Fun]

[kalami]

I think what many of you are missing is it's really not just the bugs that have peoples panties bunched; it's the fact that whatever PROCESS they are using to test is broken. As a QA professional the standard procedure is to regress all bugs before the next patch meaning you need to verify that the previous bugs are fixed and if not either push the patch back or release it with notice that those bugs weren't fixed.

PGI seems to be almost shocked that some of these bugs are present. I'm more annoyed that they actually seem surprised about many of these bugs and that should not be the case with how simply many of them are to reproduce.

In my case because I have access, Ive tried this game on almost 4 unique test beds here and it's the same bugs across them all; so the argument about being so many different flavors of hardware are a weak defense. I think PGI just needs to step back and review their PROCESS, there seems to be something wrong with it.

From one QA guy to another; you have to push back on management and marketing concerning content and timeframes; it's painful sometimes and you will likely argue internally, but it's the only way to keep quality.

[KuruptU4Fun]

kalami, on 16 April 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

I think what many of you are missing is it's really not just the bugs that have peoples panties bunched; it's the fact that whatever PROCESS they are using to test is broken. As a QA professional the standard procedure is to regress all bugs before the next patch meaning you need to verify that the previous bugs are fixed and if not either push the patch back or release it with notice that those bugs weren't fixed. PGI seems to be almost shocked that some of these bugs are present. I'm more annoyed that they actually seem surprised about many of these bugs and that should not be the case with how simply many of them are to reproduce. In my case because I have access, Ive tried this game on almost 4 unique test beds here and it's the same bugs across them all; so the argument about being so many different flavors of hardware are a weak defense. I think PGI just needs to step back and review their PROCESS, there seems to be something wrong with it. From one QA guy to another; you have to push back on management and marketing concerning content and timeframes; it's painful sometimes and you will likely argue internally, but it's the only way to keep quality.

What are you a QA professional of? If it's not webcoding or another IT related position then you know nothing of their PROCESSES. The issues can lie in one of several places, and can overlap easily from PGI's coding, to the game engine, to our connection to the servers. And that's the only things I as a non-professional can think of from the outside looking in.

PGI does not need to explain where the bugs lie in their development process, simply because some people think they know what they are talking about from an outside perspective. I've never read the Harry Potter books, I only know what I've seen in the movies. Does that give me the right to critique JK Rowling on how she could have made the storyline better to a mass audience based on an uninformed opinion?

[kalami]

KuruptU4Fun, on 16 April 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

What are you a QA professional of? If it's not webcoding or another IT related position then you know nothing of their PROCESSES. The issues can lie in one of several places, and can overlap easily from PGI's coding, to the game engine, to our connection to the servers. And that's the only things I as a non-professional can think of from the outside looking in.

PGI does not need to explain where the bugs lie in their development process, simply because some people think they know what they are talking about from an outside perspective. I've never read the Harry Potter books, I only know what I've seen in the movies. Does that give me the right to critique JK Rowling on how she could have made the storyline better to a mass audience based on an uninformed opinion?

I'd post my linked in profile; but I don't think it's necessary. I'm a program manager (and previous test lead and project manager) for one of the largest QA testing companies of mobile and console testing in the world.

The state of the game says the process is not working well.

[jakucha]

kalami, on 16 April 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

I'd post my linked in profile; but I don't think it's necessary. I'm a program manager (and previous test lead and project manager) for one of the largest QA testing companies of mobile and console testing in the world.

The state of the game says the process is not working well.

http://mwomercs.com/...-issues-update/

Since they recently changed some of their testing processes, we'll see with the patch today if it's helping.

[Loler skates]

Juree Riggd, on 15 April 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

Oh so the game has been polished and released, and is no longer in beta? Better let PGI know, they seem to think it still is.

I'm confused what do you call it when a product is in the market and trying to make money?

man I'll just start selling chairs with a beta tag, that way if the legs fall off i just go lawl betah

[KuruptU4Fun]

kalami, on 16 April 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

I'd post my linked in profile; but I don't think it's necessary. I'm a program manager (and previous test lead and project manager) for one of the largest QA testing companies of mobile and console testing in the world. The state of the game says the process is not working well.

And I was a gametester for Gearbox software on Borderlands and BL2 over in Plano,Tx. My job was to report bugs that I saw when I played the game, not stand over the programmers and tell them that they are screwing up the game as they programmed it.

[jakucha]

Loler skates, on 16 April 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

I'm confused what do you call it when a product is in the market and trying to make money?

Every other F2P beta.

Edited by jakucha, 16 April 2013 - 06:49 AM.

[Dishevel]

Ranek Blackstone, on 15 April 2013 - 04:47 PM, said:

The art department isn't involved in the bug hunting.

No it is not.
The bug hunting dept is one guy in the basement with an old Windows Me machine with 128 MB of RAM.

I wish they would involve the art dept.

[Loler skates]

jakucha, on 16 April 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Every other F2P beta.

So a released product trying to make money hiding behind the beta tag to avoid criticism

Okay, understood.

[kalami]

KuruptU4Fun, on 16 April 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

And I was a gametester for Gearbox software on Borderlands and BL2 over in Plano,Tx. My job was to report bugs that I saw when I played the game, not stand over the programmers and tell them that they are screwing up the game as they programmed it.

And I said that when? My point was to offer some feedback based on what I know of QA; I in no way bashed them or even called anyone out; simply offering my insight based on what I see.

[jakucha]

Loler skates, on 16 April 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

So a released product trying to make money hiding behind the beta tag to avoid criticism

Okay, understood.

It doesn't matter in the slightest what the title is. They're still adding core elements, content, and fixing bugs. They call it a beta because it's not release state. If they want to charge money for it, they can do that. You don't have to spend money on anything. What's the problem?

[Loler skates]

Barnaby Jones, on 15 April 2013 - 11:19 PM, said:

I have to ask those of you PGI defenders out there how you justify the ELO **** up they are about to fix...and how it was not found AT ALL until just a bit ago? The months we waited since 8mans were killed, the couple of months we've had ELO, and they only find this **** now? this is not a graphical bug, this is absolutely a lack of any actual testing prior to releasing it on the servers.

Not to mention the point the OP is trying to make is best expressed by the recent LRM bs.

They introduce something in the patch that makes lrms insanely op.... Most companies would roll back that bit of code and attempt to correct it before rereleasing it. IE the status quo is better than a rushed and untested fix.

PGI on the other hand, decided that it would be better to try three distinct and seperate nerfs to missles, after just three days of work, and saying "They Feel Right" and "we'll actually fix this **** in May".

Pgi are a cowboy outfit.

Simple as.