273 replies to this topic

[Zyllos]

Taemien, on 17 April 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

Convergence, seriously? You're going to go there? You didn't post anything about it in 1995, 1999, or 2000. Why now?

There is nothing wrong with Convergence. There is nothing wrong with alphastriking or group firing. People just don't know how to avoid shots and WILL NOT twist their torsos to spread out damage. Some of you say you do, but you don't. I have literally fought against a total of THREE people (and I'm not even sure it was the same guy all three times) since November that has done this when fighting me. Everyone else either faces me the entire time, or turns 180 and runs off.

If convergence is killing you, you simply cannot pilot. You might be a good shot, but you're a **** poor pilot.

You might be right (I think your not) but what about builds that need to face their target continue dealing damage?

Are all builds that have to do this bad?

Maybe I should torso twist when you shoot, but with a 4.0s CD on weapons, this is cutting about 25% of the DPS, which the build is technically already bad, even worse now.

That is the problem with weapon convergence. There is no balance between alpha strikes (all the benefits, no disadvantages) when compared with group firing weapons.

Is the only valid tactic in this game is to alpha strike so that you can torso twist away when someone else shoots at you?

Give me one good example that you would group fire PPCs and Gauss instead of alpha strike them, other than heat?

[DocGiggles]

One thing that always bugged me about this game is that beyond the shortest ranges, all the weapons on a mech, including the arms, may as well have been coming out of the same point in your cockpit. What I'd like to see is that while moving or jetting, arm and possibly even torso weapons have reducedconvergence, up to and including firing essentially "straight" out of the spot it is shot. Lighter weapons would be closer to center than heavier weapons, signifying the mech's difficulty in holding a 15 ton weapon aimed perfectly at the center crosshairs ehile moving or jetting. Essentially the arm crosshairs would split into two and end up on either side of the center. A moving sniper would still be able to hit using his arms, but not pinpoint alpha. When stopped, the crosshairs should take a signifcant (~1second?) time to converge to center. Brawlers would be much less effected as they usually carry lighter weapons and fight at closer ranges where the offset would be less significant.

I think this would solve alot of issues with the game. But i am very partial to brawlers myself.

PS: I hope everyone is keeping in mind that fixing these types of balance issues is precisely the point of an open beta. Now if they could reduce the number of common crippling glitches to the single digit range that would be great.

Edited by DocGiggles, 17 April 2013 - 08:32 AM.

[z3a1ot]

Mesosaurus, on 17 April 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

Why does this always happen?

I ask this myself also. It seems after every patch game goes to extremes. Most of the weapons i saw today was PPC and Gauss Rifle, and of course jump capable mechs.

[Multitallented]

Every patch sees a lot of the new mech when it comes out. That's only natural. This time however I think it's here to stay though. HGN-732, CTF-3D, TB-5J.... and nothing else.

[jay35]

Taemien, on 17 April 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

Convergence, seriously? You're going to go there? You didn't post anything about it in 1995, 1999, or 2000. Why now?

There is nothing wrong with Convergence. There is nothing wrong with alphastriking or group firing. People just don't know how to avoid shots and WILL NOT twist their torsos to spread out damage. Some of you say you do, but you don't. I have literally fought against a total of THREE people (and I'm not even sure it was the same guy all three times) since November that has done this when fighting me. Everyone else either faces me the entire time, or turns 180 and runs off.

If convergence is killing you, you simply cannot pilot. You might be a good shot, but you're a **** poor pilot.

This. Also, there already is enough weapon dispersion, and if you actually snipe with a mech that has its weapons spread across torso and arms, you've experienced it.

[Mudslinger]

I started working up my Hunchies not too long before the patch. Since the patch, it has become more difficult brawling. Prior to the patch, I use to see 1-2 Atlases, 1-2 stalkers and maybe an Awesome here and there per match on average. With the addition of the highlander, I am seeing a much higher number of assault mechs per game and a lot more sniping with PPCs/Gauss.

It has been a bit discouraging to a brawler mech. I can only assume it will be addressed by the Devs somehow and/or by the mech flavor of the month wearing off eventually.

Basically now, for the most part, I wait behind cover near all my friendly assault mechs as they snipe warfare with opposing assaults hoping for a lone mechs or an obvious weaknesses I can address. Generally, which ever assaulting side comes out on top of the the snipe game, wins the game game...generally.

Cheers!

[MaddMaxx]

Fate 6, on 16 April 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

snip
My comp is partly to blame, but the game never ran that well and that is because of the game's performance on anything that isn't a godly PC.

Well sir, actually that is not entirely accurate. Dual Core chips and video on the Motherboard are days gone sir.

[Joseph Mallan]

I have to chuckle that I have been using Gauss/PPC combo on my Atlas for months, But now that it is in Vogue its a problem. 6 PPCs do the kind of damage I am used to 3 doing to a Mech. It hurts and it should. Now we have jumping 90 ton Mechs that can wield 3-4 PPCs and a Gauss that can jump, and there is much crying. Soon there is going to be OmniMechs that can Poptart with dual Ultra 20s at 400+ M! Save the outrage folks, we ain't seen nothing yet!

[MN03]

I just compared my 6LL and 6ppc stalkers with each other. It's far FAR more easier to get a kill with ppc's than with large lasers.

[Eternal Hunter]

The only reason this happens is because people are..hmm not excatly chicken, but more playing it safe.

They are afraid of dying, so they go 100% poptart and all in long range with only gauss\ppc\lrm.
This way they can shoot stuff and stay far away. Also, since they\we see that most of our team mates are doing it, we have to adapt, since brawling isn't very popular now.

So, hard to brawl when your team doesn't want to get in close. If you go in alone, you just die.

If you just wait it for both teams to poptart eachother, one of three things will happen.
You'll either be the last man standing and probably die.
You mow them down before they get close for you to do anything.
They come to you (miracle) and you get to shoot something.

[Joseph Mallan]

MN03, on 17 April 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

I just compared my 6LL and 6ppc stalkers with each other. It's far FAR more easier to get a kill with ppc's than with large lasers.

That is an interesting fact sir. It should be easier but not that much easier. I would think it is the whole beam duration that is making that the case. Shame really.

[Zaptruder]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 April 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

If you are being as safe as possible you are not making a mistake either!
To err on the side of caution is to use more caution than may be necessary. Is it a mistake to do that?
Same principle here man.

So to do as much as possible to make everything balanced IS erring on the side of balance.


If you err on the side of balance you make sure you have everything as balanced as can be. It isn't a hard thing to follow.

You are still only looking at the trees and missing the forest.

Forget it. You've pretzeled logic and you're not afraid to keep doing it until the other side throws their hand up in exasperation. This is me throwing my hands up in exasperation. Congratulations.

[Joseph Mallan]

Good the thread had been side tracked enough.

[Joseph Mallan]

SicksGunz, on 17 April 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

Do people ever stop complaining? Weapons actually do damage now, and look, you can't just rush over open ground like a n00b anymore.

No. people don't stop complaining. even when they no longer have something to complain about they try to find something new.

[MustrumRidcully]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 April 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

No. people don't stop complaining. even when they no longer have something to complain about they try to find something new.

When people start complaining they have nothing to complain anymore, you may have reached an interesting point.

[Joseph Mallan]

MustrumRidcully, on 17 April 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

When people start complaining they have nothing to complain anymore, you may have reached an interesting point.

Wait for it...

[Coolant]

RiceyFighter, on 16 April 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

The entire game has become nothing but highlanders playing with gauss and PPCs. Stalkers boating PPCs, and Cataphracts with gauss and PPCs.For brawler pilots it been absolute hell for us. Can't even get to fight without being blown up left and right trying to move into position and into cover.

Can't have fun fighting up close when getting there means certain death : /

Seriously at a huge slump, I hate playing gauss and PPCs because my accuracy sucks, and I do best up close and personal.

/rant

I am going on a break from this game.

PS: The bugs in this game is not helping much. I accidentally killed 3 friendlies because of HUD issues. Crash in game every 4 matches.

Thanks for reading me ranting and I hope all of you enjoy playing MechWarrior Online. In till then o7

Play Conquest...you can't exactly jumpsnipe or use long-range when you're trying to capture a base point. Some of the best brawls out there are over a capture point, especially the ones in the middle. I play Conquest sometimes simply for the brawls and don't care much for capturing anything. I prefer Assault, but I have to admit there are some good brawls out there switching to Conquest...

Edited by Coolant, 17 April 2013 - 10:08 AM.

[Zaptruder]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 April 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

Good the thread had been side tracked enough.

Because you post too much and because you think "missing the forest for the trees" is a catchall in a semantic argument. It's not; it only serves to highlight an ignorance of an understanding of the correct contextual use of language.

[zorak ramone]

RiceyFighter, on 16 April 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

The entire game has become nothing but highlanders playing with gauss and PPCs. Stalkers boating PPCs, and Cataphracts with gauss and PPCs.For brawler pilots it been absolute hell for us. Can't even get to fight without being blown up left and right trying to move into position and into cover.

Well, what did you expect?

They nerfed the last real viable short range weapon: the SRM6.

The SSRM2 was doomed once ECM was added.

The ML does just as much damage/heat as the PPC (except in a tiny 90m radius), only the PPC fires faster, has longer range, and stuffs twice as much damage per hardpoint.

The AC20 and AC10 were and still are outclassed overall by the GR, UAC5 and even AC5, which all have better ranges and lower heat. Sure, you see 2xAC20 Jagers, but those will fade away once people realize that they don't offer more than 4xPPC Stalkers.

The SRM6 was the last, no-BS, infighter weapon. Clusters of SRMs had distinct advantages in terms of alpha damage and DPS relative to longer ranged weapons, giving players a reason to get close enough to use them. Now, they are merely ok. Yes, SRM splash was bugged, but the simple solution to that is to remove the splash and leave damage where it was. The double nerf was too much.

Instead of just comoplaining, here are some suggestions on how to fix this:
-Restore SRM damage to 2.5 per missile, but keep splash out untill they can fix it
-Reduce the nullification effect of ECM on SSRMs and LRMs (discussion for another thread)
-Reduce heat on the AC20 and AC10 by half
-Drop ML heat by 1 point

Now you have a series of viable short range weapons that have actual advantages over their long and mid ranged counterparts.

[Mister Blastman]

Tie Ma, on 16 April 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

just a phase. since introduction of highlander ppl get excited and try to make best 90ton poptart

they also need to nerf ER PPCs. it should still hve damae dropoff <90m just less so.

No, if there is a damage dropoff in ER PPCs, there should also be a damage drop off in...

1. Gauss
2. All autocannons

Just like in tabletop, also.

What needs to be done is buffing SRMs back to where they were for starters and then, after, that, consider reducing the heat of medium lasers by 1 pt like they were in closed beta June along addressing convergence of torso weapons for starters.

The second phase would be removing engine caps to give brawlers their speed back (ESPECIALLY MEDIUM MECHS). All these changes would see a dramatic change in gameflow.

... Without putting a minimum range into ERPPCs, Gauss and Autocannons.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 17 April 2013 - 10:16 AM.