82 replies to this topic

[Dishevel]

Willie Sauerland, on 17 April 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

Obvious,

yes.

But the devs

have already stated

most players drop

in groups.

So it is a

low priority.

The devs are wrong.
As long as the built in voice coms worked well it would be used by everyone dropping into a game where they are not the only people on their team.
Built in voice comms allows people who are working and can not speak to listen.
Pugs with no headset can Hear what is going on and respond.
The only people that built in comms would not help is 8 mans. Soon 12 mans.
Every other group could benefit from this.
The Devs are WRONG on this.
As wrong as they are about ECM. As wrong as they are for keeping missiles where they are right now.
As wrong as PGI was in their work on DNF. They are wrong here as well.
Bring built in comms. Make it work well, and ... for Gods sake ... MAKE SURE WE CAN MUTE IDIOTS!

[jeffsw6]

Willie Sauerland, on 17 April 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

The problem is,

does PGIGP

have enough staff

to actually implement this?

They already have the separate, stand-alone "C3" software, which is terrible, but all the codec functionality is there.

The task of recording audio on the server-side is completely trivial. So are the automated analysis tools required to stream-line the abuse handling process. I could literally write all of that software in less than a week, by myself, and have no trouble scaling up to a huge player-base with a huge number of abusers every day on a few cheap servers with cheap HDDs.

This **** is not rocket science, it is a basic function of how you Q/A call-center traffic. The difference is it's actually a lot easier because players are much more likely to use "report abuse," and will almost certainly use "mute player," while customers having a bad call-center experience often won't hang on the line to complete a survey or respond to some follow-up. This is why almost every call-center has that "...may be monitored or recorded for quality assurance..." announcement when you call in.

Does PGI have the support staff needed to do the manual screening of abuse recordings? No, probably not right now. That's okay. Like I said, recruit some volunteers to screen out the garbage.

PGI's biggest problem is the new player experience is horrible. Everyone knows it, including, apparently, PGI themselves. Integrated VOIP will fix it basically overnight. The increase in player retention and resulting sales of MC will certainly pay for both the technology and labor.

Lukoi, on 17 April 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

While I wouldn't mind seeing integrated voip to help PUGs, it's not going to make or break the game imo.

It has already broken the game. If you're not in a group on VOIP, you are losing the majority of your matches. If you are in a group on VOIP, you are winning most of your matches. That is broken because new players are the most likely ones to not be on ******* VOIP.

[JuiceKeeper]

This would be really nice especialy if C3 would get integrated into UI and MWO software so they are not 2 products which u have to download but its just one software bundled together.

[Black Templar]

jeffsw6, on 17 April 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

That is a really easy problem to fix, honestly.

First, make it easy to mute a teammate if you don't want to listen to him/her. Second, make it easy to "report" an abusive teammate. Third, log both of these things on the server-side and analyze the log data to determine what players are both reported for abuse AND being muted by teammates during a high percentage of the games they play.

Fourth, make it possible for the server to record the voice stream from a player, flag players who have often been reported for abuse to be recorded, and the next few times that player is reported by his teammates, kick those recording files up to a support person who will quickly review the transmissions from that player, and if needed, sanction them.

Fifth, if the player is a newbie account (one with few games played) and they quickly made it to step #4, completely skip the support review of stored audio, and ban that user from transmitting VOIP for 25 games, all by automation, with no personnel cost involved.

As someone with 16 years of experience in software development, I can tell you with absolute certainty, that abusive VOIP users exist only because the game companies do not care enough about the problem to do the very simple steps above to stream-line the process of dealing with them.


Before you know-it-alls start saying it's too expensive to record in-game VOIP transmissions: no, it isn't. Even uncompressed, telephone-quality audio is approximately 8KB/sec and this is not how VOIP clients typically transmit, anyway; they use lower-bit-rate codecs to conserve bandwidth. A G.729 stream can be as small as 2KB/sec and still have passable audio quality. But let's stay with 8KB/sec, worst case, for now.

Let's say the abusive user transmits continuously some terrible bagpipe music into every match he plays, all day long, for 26 hours, because he's taking really good drugs and can't find anything better to do but annoy people in MW:O. Even if no support person reviews the reports until the following day, that's a whopping 743MB of stored transmissions. You can easily store that (temporarily, while reports are queued) for tens of thousands of abusive users without spending any real money.

Now let's say you use your brain a little more, and you delete the stored files for any matches where there were no abuse reports. Also delete repeat reports by the same teammate (over some threshold.) Finally, just stop storing them once you've got that person being abusive dozens of times in a single day, with tons of people muting and reporting him. So now you'll cut his 26 hours of bagpipe crap down to maybe 2 hours, or 57MB.

Now get some "volunteer moderators" to screen the reports so the silly crap gets dropped, and build some automation to ignore reports by people who just push the "report" button because they think it's fun.


There you have it. No more VOIP abuse. Problem solved.

It's amazing what you can do if you use your brain. I've been doing it for decades!

of course muting players would be a mandatory option. /ignore [insertplayername] and be done with it.
what you suggest sounds like an interesting take on a playerbased reporting system. i like the idea even though it comes with a consitent cost to PGI. why not make it a community feature where everyone is invited to listen to the recordings and vote on banning the accused? this way we would avoid the need for additional staff. league of legends did it successfully and it could very well serve as a good example of how to do it.

[Jace Lancer]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 17 April 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

TF2 has built-in comms (default is team-only, but server owners can set it to all). ME3 has built-in comms (multiplayer is co-op horde mode, so comms are inherently team-only). Both are robust push-to-talk solutions that are integrated fully into the game and both vastly improve game play.

It seems like one of the most obvious things in the world to put an integrated push-to-talk team voice chat function into your multiplayer team shooter. The key there is integrated, where you don't have to mess with signing up for anything, or downloading anything. If you install the game, you have the comm system.

Team fortress CLASSIC and counterstrike had it since around 2001. (which were FREE games)

[King Arthur IV]

i vote no because there are bigger problems then no viop (bugs) and viop doesnt make the game anymore fun like lets say another game mode or more maps or lobby or dropship or community warfare or..............

currently 3rd party services are out there, there is no need to spend time and money into something you can obtain already. i understand integrated viop is a differently lvl of communication but imo its a waste of time and money because its not the main act. as much as i like the game as it is, i still find it stale in terms of a competitive struggle.

[Joseph Mallan]

We do not need integrated VOiP. It would be nice to have, but there are plenty of Usable VOiPs out there that are being used effectively now.

[Soulscour]

I voted no. I think it is a complete waste of time and money developing a feature that already exists with third party. I do not think a small dev studio can be so wasteful. I also think the poll is a loaded question. "Great addition" Yeah ok..

[Joseph Mallan]

Dishevel, on 17 April 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

for Gods sake ... MAKE SURE WE CAN MUTE IDIOTS!

While PUGging or with the Law, I have not once ran into anyone who required muting.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 18 April 2013 - 05:51 AM.

[Markis Steiner]

I voted yes because for the most part I like the idea of a VOIP system in the game. Typing in the middle of a battle is a bit of a pain, but being able to push a button and speak is always a nice option in any game. I however would like for the VOIP system to automatically mute a player's mic upon death so we do not have to listen to them complain. If you are dead, typing is just fine for you.

My only real qualms about a VOIP system stem from certain players using it.
I need to be able to mute individual players as I do not think I can handle more 12 year olds slinging curse words all over the place because they think it makes them sound cool. This type of stuff makes me want to smash my speakers.
Another persona that makes me not want to listen to VOIP are the guys who like to hit on any girl gamers playing in the match. I know that is the only exposure some guys get to the female of the species....but I do not want to hear it.
I would probably want to mute RPers and anyone that uses 'Bra/Bro' too much. I think I would rather drag my unmentionables across 15 miles of broken glass than listen to these things!

[jeffsw6]

King Arthur IV, on 18 April 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

i vote no because there are bigger problems then no viop (bugs) and viop doesnt make the game anymore fun like lets say another game mode or more maps or lobby or dropship or community warfare or...............

Lack of integrated VOIP is an even bigger problem than bugs.

New players aren't quitting the game because it's buggy, they are quitting the game because it sucks to play outside of a group.

Without many more new players, there will be no game. They do not have nearly enough players for MW:O to make financial sense. If they can't retain players after "launch," look for your investment of time and money to turn into nothing.

Edited by jeffsw6, 18 April 2013 - 11:06 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Team Leader, on 17 April 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

Yes, he does. He gets joy out of people commenting on his annoying formatting that belongs in kaetatoa. Don't feed the troll. That's why I have all his posts on block, they never have anything interesting in them and they take up too much space.

You do realize

There is three choices

for how we can format our posts.

SO if WIllie is using one of the "Authorized" formats,

it is his prerogative!

[Phoenix Gray]

Black Templar, on 17 April 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

i don't care about premades. i thought it was obvious that integrated VOIP would be beneficial for PUGs.

Pugs and noobs. Would solve a LOT of the 'balance' and new player retention issues.

[Phoenix Gray]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 April 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

While PUGging or with the Law, I have not once ran into anyone who required muting.

Oh, they exist. Some of them even YouTube their asshattery.

With a common VOIP, everyone has a real incentive to *ahem* "reimplement enhanced target selection protocols" IYKWIMAITYD

Markis Steiner, on 18 April 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

I voted yes because for the most part I like the idea of a VOIP system in the game. Typing in the middle of a battle is a bit of a pain, but being able to push a button and speak is always a nice option in any game. I however would like for the VOIP system to automatically mute a player's mic upon death so we do not have to listen to them complain. If you are dead, typing is just fine for you.

My only real qualms about a VOIP system stem from certain players using it.
I need to be able to mute individual players as I do not think I can handle more 12 year olds slinging curse words all over the place because they think it makes them sound cool. This type of stuff makes me want to smash my speakers.
Another persona that makes me not want to listen to VOIP are the guys who like to hit on any girl gamers playing in the match. I know that is the only exposure some guys get to the female of the species....but I do not want to hear it.
I would probably want to mute RPers and anyone that uses 'Bra/Bro' too much. I think I would rather drag my unmentionables across 15 miles of broken glass than listen to these things!

Sounds like we need a NEW! FROM PGI! product to address this... hmmmm...

[Phoenix Gray]

NEW! FROM PGI!

THE BATTLEMECH ASSHAT!

Tired of garbage mouths, pervs and punks in YOUR VOIP channel? Fret no more!

The new Mechwarrior Asshat Module (320MC/999,999 CBills) is here for you!

The module takes full advantage of censoring features already in place for the MWO forums. Whenever it detects language or content that violate game standards, the Module projects a shiny pink asshat above the head of the offending player's mech. This greatly simplifies identification of the troublemakers and is a handy guide to leaving a cleaner and more polite battlefield through judicious target selection.

Warning. Certain Highlander players may give a misleading reading. Only shoot the ones that show TWO shiny pink asshats, one above the other.

Remember: a courteous battlefield is a HAPPY battlefield, so pony up and do your part today!

Edited by Phoenix Gray, 18 April 2013 - 11:29 AM.

[Phoenix Gray]

RG Notch, on 17 April 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

First thing I would do was disable it.

Second thing you do would be die in a hail of missiles, shells and beams.

[King Arthur IV]

jeffsw6, on 18 April 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

Lack of integrated VOIP is an even bigger problem than bugs.

New players aren't quitting the game because it's buggy, they are quitting the game because it sucks to play outside of a group.

Without many more new players, there will be no game. They do not have nearly enough players for MW:O to make financial sense. If they can't retain players after "launch," look for your investment of time and money to turn into nothing.

iv crashed 38 times out of 43 now. if new players still stick around, sure! bugs arnt priority.

btw i think people quit becuase its boring and they get stomped in trial mechs. viop does nothing to make the game playable for new players.
get stompped, have hud bugs and crash every few games = omg frustration. not to mention no info on how to play. (lil)

Edited by King Arthur IV, 18 April 2013 - 11:50 AM.

[Willie Sauerland]

Phoenix Gray, on 18 April 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

NEW! FROM PGI!

THE BATTLEMECH ASSHAT!

Tired of garbage mouths, pervs and punks in YOUR VOIP channel? Fret no more!

The new Mechwarrior Asshat Module (320MC/999,999 CBills) is here for you!

The module takes full advantage of censoring features already in place for the MWO forums. Whenever it detects language or content that violate game standards, the Module projects a shiny pink asshat above the head of the offending player's mech. This greatly simplifies identification of the troublemakers and is a handy guide to leaving a cleaner and more polite battlefield through judicious target selection.

Warning. Certain Highlander players may give a misleading reading. Only shoot the ones that show TWO shiny pink asshats, one above the other.

Remember: a courteous battlefield is a HAPPY battlefield, so pony up and do your part today!

I like it.

In fact, I would play just to get to wear it.

[Peiper]

Wait... what is this C3 thing that I get every time I start my computer. Isn't that integrated (or at least, automatically enabled) team VOIP?

1. I already use teamspeak. Why would I need another VOIP open?
2. Can't pugs just go to Comstar NA and EU servers to hop into and find groups?
3. Most organized units, houses, clans, merc corps have their own VOIP set up, and/or can set one up with one of the large existing teamspeaks (and other types) out there.
4. There's an awful lot of work still to be done in the game, and VOIP is something the players can figure out for themselves (hell, we could figure out CW for ourselves if we had lobbies - where we could, incidentally, give out VOIP information to new players...).
5. If the players can't figure out how to find my unit (any unit) why would I (or you) want them? If they can't figure out how to navigate the internet and/or figure out how to set up teamspeak or the like, they are probably stinky pilots too.

So, I voted no. PGI needs to do so many more important things before they can get around to more frivolous stuff. Hell, they can't even balance ECM yet, and all the have to do is change a few values in the code....

[MentalPatient]

Man this website needs a downvote option, so many people totally ignorant of why we need integrated voip. Having bugs is no reason not to have voip. It's a game changer, as many of you who use teamspeak keep saying, if your not on teamspeak your not winning. But not everyone is part of a gaming community, many of us work all day, and like to take an hour or so out of our day dropping into MWO playing a few rounds. For us, we can't waste time trying to find people to add to our social network to drop with, we have limited time to drop in and make the most of it. What we want is to drop into a match and be able to communicate with our team mates using voip, totally integrated with no extra effort involved. It makes such a huge difference, so why limit the majority of the community who don't play like you elite few do?

Communication is always better than no communication. I can't just stop what I'm doing and type a message when I see an enemy, by the time I've typed it, they are gone, and if I'm in trouble I can type to send backup, as it makes you extremely vulnerable and you may as well just walk away and kiss your mech goodbye. Working as a team is so important, and PUGS do want to have that same team experience as group drops, even if we don't know each other.