258 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Agent of Change, on 22 April 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

[/size]

Then you are talking to me because this was my exclusive goal this weekend. i have explained my reasons.

long story short, If i never have to fire a shot... it's your fault not mine.

I quoted this because I agree. If He caps me and I haven't tried to stop him... It was my fault I lost.

[BlackWidow]

Jazzbandit1313, on 21 April 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

I'm not talking about honor and all of that, I'm talking about being a ******* troll ******* who can't give a half of a **** about anyone else in the server. Pretty much as bad as a hacker.

I thought I didn't care about whine, then I read this and solidified it.

Bad as a hacker? Hyperbole much?

Complain to PGI all you want about not having a DEATHMATCH only mode. But, don't for a minute chide other players for doing what you can't seem to:

1. Know the strengths and weaknesses of their class
2. Using those to their advantage.
3. Winning within the rules CLEARLY set out for months now.

I quote Einstein, the greatest Mechwarrior of all time:

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Edited by BlackWidow, 22 April 2013 - 08:27 AM.

[Agent of Change]

BlackWidow, on 22 April 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

I kinda feel like this capping to prove a point. it's seems the idiocy is too deeply entrenched to actually accept something simple like. If I watch the base, i will get capped less and fight more.

[Jazzbandit1313]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 April 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

I quoted this because I agree. If He caps me and I haven't tried to stop him... It was my fault I lost.

What I'm trying to fight against is the Inablility to save a cap when 2-3 man teams such as the one forementioned base cap and the team that I'm on can do literally nothing to stop it because we can't get back to base soon enough. I only go for random games, and don't play with anyone i know, therefore I'm really the only one every game that begs people to stay back at base with me. You think I'm going to sit at my base for every game for the rest of my life?. hell no. What everyone is saying on this forum is correct and i respect their opinions. People say that players need to communicate and pay more attention and all of that and I AGREE. I'm just trying to get it out there that A. Maybe a slight change is needed in capture rates for those ridiculous 4 man light teams that cap super fast, and B. that people need to re-evaluate how they play. I myself am one of the players who thinks about base capping but of course in all of my time playing this game, around a year, i can say that not one person besides myself in any of the hundreds of rounds has once mentioned staying back to guard cap. So unless people get educated on how to defend or prevent base caps, i think there should be a slight change made, because 70% of players these days are "lets roll to the center of the map and squash things". And just saying, change usually happens for the majority.

Edited by Jazzbandit1313, 22 April 2013 - 08:32 AM.

[Agent of Change]

Jazzbandit1313, on 22 April 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

What I'm trying to fight against is the Inablility to save a cap when 2-3 man teams such as the one forementioned base cap and the team that I'm on can do literally nothing to stop it because we can't get back to base soon enough. I only go for random games, and don't play with anyone i know, therefore I'm really the only one every game that begs people to stay back at base with me. You think I'm going to sit at my base for every game for the rest of my life?. hell no. What everyone is saying on this forum is correct and i respect their opinions. People say that players need to communicate and pay more attention and all of that and I AGREE. I'm just trying to get it out there that A. Maybe a slight change is needed in capture rates for those ridiculous 4 man light teams that cap super fast, and B. that people need to re-evaluate how they play. I myself am one of the players who thinks about base capping but of course in all of my time playing this game, around a year, i can say that not one person besides myself in any of the hundreds of rounds has once mentioned staying back to cap. So unless people get educated on how to defend or prevent base caps, i think there should be a slight change made, because 70% of players these days are "lets roll to the center of the map and squash things". And just saying, change usually happens for the majority.

Don't move so far away from your base you cannot go back to defend it until you have confirmed they aren't coming for you.

If you have a drop with 8 assault mechs I have no pity for you accept your weakness and play around it don't expect me to have mercy because you want me to ignore the glaring weakness in your drop makeup.

[Jazzbandit1313]

Agent of Change, on 22 April 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

Don't move so far away from your base you cannot go back to defend it until you have confirmed they aren't coming for you.

If you have a drop with 8 assault mechs I have no pity for you accept your weakness and play around it don't expect me to have mercy because you want me to ignore the glaring weakness in your drop makeup.

Well seeing as there is definitely something wrong with the matchmaker around this time, i think thats partly to blame. I'm saying the problem is that you can tell assault pilots to sit still. They just can't do it. I want to stay behind and guard or go a little slower and not rush in but of course.No one playing wants to do the same. Absolutely no one

[Agent of Change]

If you don't want to do what it takes to prevent a tactic, you have no place complaining about that tactic.

I really dislike the huge amounts of assault mechs and or ppc boats running around, but guess what, capping beats ppc's most of the time. I don't want to do this all the time but I'm doing what it takes to beat your tactic. So until others change their tactics to make mine unviable then it is what it is. that's how a game meta works.

[Howdy Doody]

Howdy,

I feel the more possible options there are in a battle the less chance of it getting stale.

Last thing I want is an unwritten rule to where everyone meets at "E6" for a death match!

Options keep the mind open to fighting and mech building! That's what I love about this game....but yes those moments do suck, lol.

Doody

[Jman5]

What I always find interesting about this debate is that people legitimately do not want advice on how they can adapt to counter a strategy. Losing every time someone caps validates their opinion that nothing can be done against base cappers. If they actively tried to counter it, they may discover that there are simple steps to take that stop most base rushes.

However, instead of addressing their own fallibility, they insists its the game that must change to make their preferred playstyle optimal in all situations.

Edited by Jman5, 22 April 2013 - 08:45 AM.

[Jazzbandit1313]

Agent of Change, on 22 April 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

If you don't want to do what it takes to prevent a tactic, you have no place complaining about that tactic.

I really dislike the huge amounts of assault mechs and or ppc boats running around, but guess what, capping beats ppc's most of the time. I don't want to do this all the time but I'm doing what it takes to beat your tactic. So until others change their tactics to make mine unviable then it is what it is. that's how a game meta works.

So you're asking me to stay back and guard for every single game i play? yeah sorry no. And also i agree that this weekend, capping may be a more valid point because of the huge amounts of assaults, but When i posted this topic i was talking about my experiences in MWO from the beginning, not just this weekend. Times when there have been teams that could have easily be taken down by a lance of lights or even a half lance, yet completely ignored and capped.

[Joseph Mallan]

Jazzbandit1313, on 22 April 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

What I'm trying to fight against is the Inablility to save a cap when 2-3 man teams such as the one forementioned base cap and the team that I'm on can do literally nothing to stop it because we can't get back to base soon enough. I only go for random games, and don't play with anyone i know, therefore I'm really the only one every game that begs people to stay back at base with me. You think I'm going to sit at my base for every game for the rest of my life?. hell no. What everyone is saying on this forum is correct and i respect their opinions. People say that players need to communicate and pay more attention and all of that and I AGREE. I'm just trying to get it out there that A. Maybe a slight change is needed in capture rates for those ridiculous 4 man light teams that cap super fast, and B. that people need to re-evaluate how they play. I myself am one of the players who thinks about base capping but of course in all of my time playing this game, around a year, i can say that not one person besides myself in any of the hundreds of rounds has once mentioned staying back to guard cap. So unless people get educated on how to defend or prevent base caps, i think there should be a slight change made, because 70% of players these days are "lets roll to the center of the map and squash things". And just saying, change usually happens for the majority.

This is your teams fault. You were not prepared to beat your enemy and lost. You need to accept it and move on. Losing cause your Enemy capitalized on your weakness is not a reason to change the game.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 22 April 2013 - 08:48 AM.

[Jazzbandit1313]

Jman5, on 22 April 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

What I always find interesting about this debate is that people legitimately do not want advice on how they can adapt to counter a strategy. Losing every time someone caps validates their opinion that nothing can be done against base cappers. If they actively tried to counter it, they may discover that there are simple steps to take that stop most base rushes.

However, instead of addressing his own fallibility, he insists its the game that must change to make his preferred playstyle optimal in all situations.

Actually read things please. i say things that COULD change. not SHOULD change. And please also read my other posts where i agree with most advice or ideas presented. The major problem is making everyone else listen to this advice. If this does not happen then the majority of players who are oblivious will keep playing how they do and then there will be no other option but a change.

[Agent of Change]

Jazzbandit1313, on 22 April 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

So you're asking me to stay back and guard for every single game i play? yeah sorry no. And also i agree that this weekend, capping may be a more valid point because of the huge amounts of assaults, but When i posted this topic i was talking about my experiences in MWO from the beginning, not just this weekend. Times when there have been teams that could have easily be taken down by a lance of lights or even a half lance, yet completely ignored and capped.

Yet more reductionist arguments rather than thinking the issue through.

you could try:

• coordinating with your team nothign says you must 8 man deathstar or else.
  
• delaying the push for a minute to catch any quick rushers
  
• sending scouts to make sure teh approaches are covered
  
• keeping your eyes open to spot in coming fast movers
  
• staying where you can fire on or return to the base in a reasonable time frame.

but if you want to stick with oversimplified excuses for why you won't stop me then i'll keep winning, you'll keep raging, and one of us will end up in the steering wheel underhive... hint: It won't be me.

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[SilvaDraconis]

I only run lights or mediums infrequently but regardless of my mech weight I play to win. If I can get to your base and win I generally will if our team is disadvantaged or I haven't encountered the opponents on my way.

Win scenario = eliminate other team or capture base

When there is an option any good pilot should consider which option benefits the team most.

[Jman5]

Jazzbandit1313, on 22 April 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

Actually read things please. i say things that COULD change. not SHOULD change. And please also read my other posts where i agree with most advice or ideas presented. The major problem is making everyone else listen to this advice. If this does not happen then the majority of players who are oblivious will keep playing how they do and then there will be no other option but a change.

Then read this: Countering cap rushes is not about sitting on your base and twiddling your ******* thumbs in the hope that a light strolls onto your base. That is not how you successfully play. It's about knowing the maps, watching which path your team takes, and personally going down the alternate path if no one else does.

The problem of base rushes is almost entirely solved by a single individual who takes the initiative to scout. And you don't have to be fast. You just need to have a working set of eyeballs.

I do this in my slow atlas all the time when my team forms into a baitball and marches down the middle.

Again, it's about actively scouting not passively sitting.

Edited by Jman5, 22 April 2013 - 08:58 AM.

[Jazzbandit1313]

i dont understand the rudeness

[ElLocoMarko]

I played a match last night where the enemy team left a defense squad at their base on Alpine (Cent + Highlander).
It was tactically suicidal. We walked through their forward force and then demolished their base defense. The moment they split their team they could no longer win by force.

Plenty of folks are insisting on full team base defense as a good proper response. In random PUG drops I have never seen that. People are too twitchy. We almost kept 8 together in River City the other night. But the moment an enemy target box appeared, 4 brawlers lept into the river to charge into upper city. I swear it is like trying to contain rabid dogs... New consumable THE LEASH. I'd buy that.

[Agent of Change]

Jazzbandit1313, on 22 April 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

i dont understand the rudeness

It comes from repeatedly saying the same things time and again to people (not neccessarily the same people mind you) but people who by all appearances fall into 3 categories:

• Teamwork is cheating crew
  
• The willfully ignorant group
  
• The you're cheating because I don't like your tactics gang

And then the populaces of those combined groups whine on the forums endlessly repeating thread about why X (capping in this case) is bad but without irony failing to recognize their own part in the dance and not accepting that they could do things to change it OTHER that bitching on the forums.


This is your one explanation, i'm not specifically sayign you are in any one of these three groups but you did create yet another thread on capping and I personally have repeated the same solution suggestions at least twice in this thread alone already not counting the others. I think the reason that we have moved past friendly discourse should be self-evident..

Edited by Agent of Change, 22 April 2013 - 09:07 AM.

[Jazzbandit1313]

Jman5, on 22 April 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

Then read this: Countering cap rushes is not about sitting on your base and twiddling your ******* thumbs in the hope that a light strolls onto your base. That is not how you successfully play. It's about knowing the maps, watching which path your team takes, and personally going down the alternate path if no one else does.

The problem of base rushes is almost entirely solved by a single individual who takes the initiative to scout. And you don't have to be fast. You just need to have a working set of eyeballs.

I do this in my slow atlas all the time when my team forms into a baitball and marches down the middle.

Again, it's about actively scouting not passively sitting.

and again i do not want to be this person ever game. either educate those that don't know how to guard and play correctly or make a change.

[TruePoindexter]

Agent of Change, on 22 April 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

It comes from repeatedly saying the same things time and again to people (not neccessarily the same people mind you) but people who by all appearances fall into 3 categories:

• The Stop playing in ways I don't like crew
  
• The willfully ignorant group
  
• The your cheating because I don't like gang

And then the populaces of those combined groups whine on the forums endlessly repeating thread about why X (capping in this case) is bad but without irony failing to recognize their own part in the dance and not accepting that they could do things to change it OTHER that bitching on the forums.

This tends to be the largest problem with most people - the failure to recognize their own role in a defeat. Even if there are obvious factors outside of your control such as poor teammates or issues with weight matching at the end of the day you were there and therefore had some part in the game. It begs the question - if we replaced you with a different person would the game still have been a loss? Maybe - maybe not. It definitely would not have played out the same though.

*Rhetorical "you" not literal

Edited by TruePoindexter, 22 April 2013 - 09:39 AM.