253 replies to this topic

[NRP]

@Void Angel
You really think the ERPPC is the most powerful weapon in the game? I think it's too friggin hot to bother with. I find I can't boat more than two without serious heat issues on any map without snow on it.

[Lightfoot]

I don't see the JJet thing as an issue really. JJetting shooters are confined by the action to a vertical cone of fire, more or less, so you just keep your distance, 500+ meters, and move laterally. Shoot back when they jump and work your way to the side of the ridge they are shooting from. They usually fall apart under concentrated fire. Not saying it's easy, just that's what you do.

However, the only nerf that would add difficulty to jump jetting at a hill or ridgeline would be to have the jjets always propel the mech forward a few meters. They would need to reposition themselves after every shot so this might be a fair trade-off.

[Lightfoot]

NRP, on 04 May 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

@Void Angel
You really think the ERPPC is the most powerful weapon in the game? I think it's too friggin hot to bother with. I find I can't boat more than two without serious heat issues on any map without snow on it.

QFT. 3xERPPC is impossible to manage even with 21 DHS. In a firefight you would be hitting override after every shot or be dead.

[BigBangA1]

I think a good fix for the JJ pop tart situation would be making the jump jets for larger mechs take longer to recharge. Right now, as far as I can tell, the JJ fuel recharge on a light mech is the same as the recharge time on an assault mech. I would suggest increasing the recharge rates as follows: 75% increase on assaults, 50% increase on the heavies, 25% increase on the mediums, and no change on the lights. This would still allow poptarting as a tactic, but would make it much more tactical. Plus, the lights who need JJ for maneuverability would not be affected, and the lighter poptarts, such as the treb, would still be effective in their roll.

Full disclosure: I pilot a poptart catapult and 3 highlanders.

[Just wanna play]

Void Angel, on 02 May 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

...
First-off, use the fracking quote function. The only reason I can tell what's mine and what's yours is because I wrote part of this quote.

Second, ERPPCs are the most devastating weapon in the game right now - the only difference in what you're advocating would be to make them even more a must-have weapon. You're really talking about making something that can both brawl and snipe at the same time. This is a Bad Idea, even if the brawling ability is somewhat less than a pure brawler.

Third, your diatribe about the Awesome demonstrates a total lack of knowledge concerning weapon balance. Lasers have more damage and range than a PPC?! The numbers you're using to support your opinion are wrong. This means that your opinion is wrong, and you need a new opinion - or at least to fix your argument. Also, PGI tried tabletop numbers, and it sucked - people just died to0 quickly with any weapon, so it would have been brutal just trying to learn to play, much less fine-tuning a build. Educate yourself as to how the game works - starting here. The ERPPC is currently the most powerful weapon in the game overall - it needs to be toned down (a bit, not a lot,) not buffed because "in tabletop, the Awesome could do this!"

Finally, you don't understand my objection, or the implications of your own suggestion. Energy armaments are limited by heat generation as much as by tonnage limitations and space. If you increase the heat and damage generation, most people are going to do one of two things, depending on their build: either they'll bring (roughly) 30% fewer PPCs to the party (and use tonnage freed to buy close-range weapons,) or else they'll giggle to themselves and keep right on stacking as many PPCs onto their Stalkers as they can carry - because overheating doesn't damage you unless you override the safety shutdown. Neither of these outcomes is good for the game - players who are going for sustained sniping power just got an extra arsenal of close-in weaponry to overcome what used to be a weakness of their build (long-range focus.) Meanwhile, the ShudownWarrior cheese builds get a boost of 20% damage to their already huge alpha strike.

PS: My drop buddy is using an ERPPC Stalker - he doesn't particularly love the heat levels on those maps, but the big, open areas do a lot to make up for that.

you dont have to override shut down to take damage if your mech is hot enough, and i wanted to just point out as of right now the stalker can do the awesome 8qs job better then the awesome itself can, and er large laser offer better damage per ton, less heat, and better range, sure they arent pinpoint, but the fact that ppc would be losing damage before er large laser would kinda hurts that bonus, and how the heck are erppcs the best weapons in the game right now?? 10 dmg, 11ish heat, many weapons can beat it at ranges past 810m, like the guass, i just think the awesome needs something better then speed to be good in this game


build an awesome 8q with ppcs and lots of heat, damage? 30, use 4 er large laser, get 36 damage, longer range, less heat, and you can put in an extra hs for the tonnage savings

[Just wanna play]

Lightfoot, on 04 May 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

QFT. 3xERPPC is impossible to manage even with 21 DHS. In a firefight you would be hitting override after every shot or be dead.

what would you consider "hot" exactly??? if you really wanted to build a slow but well armored and cool running ppc boat, ou should use std hs and a heavy mech
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dec3fabfebaffed

slow, but 40% heat eff, almost max armor, not that hot overall, but considering i had to use std hs and an atlas, they are KINDA hot

45 std heat sinks, you can make it run cooler at the cost of more speed, or make it run hotter and faster

with 200 engine can get 4 erppcs with 28% heat eff

[Hex Pallett]

Just saying that finally the game seems to be no longer poptart infested, though PPCs are still the most frequently use weapons, but at least game feels like playable again. Reversed my 733 to brawler and feeling good.

[Void Angel]

NRP, on 04 May 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

@Void Angel
You really think the ERPPC is the most powerful weapon in the game? I think it's too friggin hot to bother with. I find I can't boat more than two without serious heat issues on any map without snow on it.

Lightfoot, on 04 May 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

QFT. 3xERPPC is impossible to manage even with 21 DHS. In a firefight you would be hitting override after every shot or be dead.

ERPPCs are the most overall powerful weapon in the game - the fact that they're hot doesn't change that. The heat inefficiency just underscores their overall utility. Sure, a brawler will do more sustainable dps - but you can cut a brawler to pieces if you catch him trying to close, and your alpha is still huge enough to plaster anyone smaller than you. Remember, just because they're the best weapon overall doesn't mean they outperform everything no matter what - you can brawl with them, but a dedicated brawler will beat you - short of a lucky headshot on your part.

Helmstif, on 05 May 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

Just saying that finally the game seems to be no longer poptart infested, though PPCs are still the most frequently use weapons, but at least game feels like playable again. Reversed my 733 to brawler and feeling good.

The problem with all the sniper newbage was more that everyone and his Clanner uncle was playing SniparWarrior builds. This is great if everyone on both sides both uses those builds and just snipes - although it sucks for the guy who didn't get the memo. But that crap doesn't work if a more balanced team will support their close-range specialists. I dusted off my AC/20 last week and started smoking newbs - welcome to the Brawler Backlash. =)

Edited by Void Angel, 05 May 2013 - 10:29 PM.

[Tremendous Upside]

Void Angel, on 05 May 2013 - 10:27 PM, said:

The problem with all the sniper newbage was more that everyone and his Clanner uncle was playing SniparWarrior builds. This is great if everyone on both sides both uses those builds and just snipes - although it sucks for the guy who didn't get the memo. But that crap doesn't work if a more balanced team will support their close-range specialists. I dusted off my AC/20 last week and started smoking newbs - welcome to the Brawler Backlash. =)

This in a nutshell has been the problem all along. It's about the drop compositions and not the individual weapons themselves. Adjust heat back up on weapons like the PPC and you'll make perfectly legitimate builds like the AWS-8Q/9M completely unviable (again). This game has always been prone to wild swings in the FOTM. One minute people are screaming about Guasscats or dual AC20 Jagers. The next it's 6 PPC stalkers (which I have absolutely no problem dealing with in my "brawl-heavy" HGNs btw). Next it may well be LRM boats for all we know - or the return of the mighty streak-cat that no one could seem to handle. I just wish players would spend more time analyzing their own play and correcting weaknesses and less time looking for excuses within the game.

[oldradagast]

Banky, on 06 May 2013 - 05:04 AM, said:

This in a nutshell has been the problem all along. It's about the drop compositions and not the individual weapons themselves. Adjust heat back up on weapons like the PPC and you'll make perfectly legitimate builds like the AWS-8Q/9M completely unviable (again). This game has always been prone to wild swings in the FOTM. One minute people are screaming about Guasscats or dual AC20 Jagers. The next it's 6 PPC stalkers (which I have absolutely no problem dealing with in my "brawl-heavy" HGNs btw). Next it may well be LRM boats for all we know - or the return of the mighty streak-cat that no one could seem to handle. I just wish players would spend more time analyzing their own play and correcting weaknesses and less time looking for excuses within the game.

Agreed.

The sniping has died down for the most part in whatever sad little corner of the ELO level where I reside

I've seen a lot better mix of tactics since late last week, and the only really successful sniper game was a team that clearly knew what they were doing - it wasn't "lone guy snipes everyone to death." They took up a defensible position near their base on River City and picked apart my team as we approached. It was well-played and they earned their win, IMHO.

[Lord of All]

Dammit, Keep this to yourselves! I've been eating these things with my brawler all along. Now everyone's gonna know!

[Void Angel]

Banky, on 06 May 2013 - 05:04 AM, said:

This in a nutshell has been the problem all along. It's about the drop compositions and not the individual weapons themselves. Adjust heat back up on weapons like the PPC and you'll make perfectly legitimate builds like the AWS-8Q/9M completely unviable (again). This game has always been prone to wild swings in the FOTM. One minute people are screaming about Guasscats or dual AC20 Jagers. The next it's 6 PPC stalkers (which I have absolutely no problem dealing with in my "brawl-heavy" HGNs btw). Next it may well be LRM boats for all we know - or the return of the mighty streak-cat that no one could seem to handle. I just wish players would spend more time analyzing their own play and correcting weaknesses and less time looking for excuses within the game.

Part of the issue is that we have, as yet, a relatively small player base. I run into people who recognize my name from forum posts, and vice versa, on a semi-regular basis. There's just not that many of us. So, when something like the Highlander shows up and starts pulling 700+ damage games as a lametart on a regular basis, it's not gonna take very long for everyone to start using ERPPCsand adopting a "camp 'n cower" playstyle (as many inexperienced long-range builds will do.) Eventually, though, enough people are going to either get bored with camping or get smashed by a brawler - and then the game will shift back.

Don't get me wrong; the ERPPC went from being a totally unattractive weapon to being too useful - which is why it's still so prevalent. But a lot of the back-and-forth swing you see is a function of the small player base of an open beta.

[Big Giant Head]

KrazedOmega, on 26 April 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

They need to add a massive amount of screen shake when JJ's are in use. That would stop most of the poptarts.

No that wont fix it.
Why?
Because your not gonna hold space-bar while you are already up in the air.
My solution is just to increase JJ crit slots. And then make a module for it to reduce crit slot to the current state.
Module will require sacrifice of 1 modular slot and time.
Plus it perfectly fits for the lights

Edited by Big Giant Head, 06 May 2013 - 08:46 AM.

[NRP]

Just wait until tomorrow when the new Stalker hero shows up. Then you guys will forget about poptarts and start QQing about "Stalkers are OP".

Yep. New flavor of the month. I imagine there will be lots of tears calling for gauss nerfs, AC nerfs, etc, etc. New gripe, but the same tears will flow.

[Void Angel]

...
Homework for you: look up "poisoning the well," then fix yourself.

[Tremendous Upside]

NRP, on 06 May 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

Just wait until tomorrow when the new Stalker hero shows up. Then you guys will forget about poptarts and start QQing about "Stalkers are OP".

Yep. New flavor of the month. I imagine there will be lots of tears calling for gauss nerfs, AC nerfs, etc, etc. New gripe, but the same tears will flow.

My HGN-732 will be eagerly awaiting our new Stalker overlords .

[Just wanna play]

NRP, on 06 May 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

Just wait until tomorrow when the new Stalker hero shows up. Then you guys will forget about poptarts and start QQing about "Stalkers are OP".

Yep. New flavor of the month. I imagine there will be lots of tears calling for gauss nerfs, AC nerfs, etc, etc. New gripe, but the same tears will flow.

WAIT WHAT new stalker hero mech???????????????????????????? WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT,any one know the differences it will have in comparison to the other variants?

[NRP]

It has at least one ballistic hard point, which no other stalker has. It also has a badass paint scheme (imo of course). And the hero mech C-Bill bonus.

There will be a swarm of them tomorrow. And I will be among them.

[Just wanna play]

NRP, on 06 May 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

It has at least one ballistic hard point, which no other stalker has. It also has a badass paint scheme (imo of course). And the hero mech C-Bill bonus.

There will be a swarm of them tomorrow. And I will be among them.

its not gonna be like an atlas is it??with more energy and missile points but less armor

[Void Angel]

I wish you guys well - hero mechs are just way too expensive for what you get, in my view. I'm paying more than I would for an actual game miniature that I can sit on my desk, dress up in a top hat, or whatever...

As for the Atlas comparison, I wouldn't worry. Atlases have different handling characterisitcs than Stalkers, so even if they had the exact same weapon hardpoints, it still wouldn't be the same.