362 replies to this topic

[Arctic Fox]

Skylarr, on 05 June 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

Is Non-Canon

It is.

Skylarr, on 05 June 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

Not sure if this is canon. It is only a rumor.

The Ares represents a series of 'Mechs that are built to exceed the 100-ton mark. The Ares uses a unique tripodal chassis to support the 'Mechs weight bridging the gap between the biped 'Mechs and the quad 'Mechs. The Ares has its roots in the Rhodes Project and was first fielded sometime after 3132. Although the manufacturer of the 'Mech remains unknown intelligence has pointed to an Ares factory being located on the world of Kaus Australis in Prefecture I of the Republic of the Sphere. This intelligence, as well as the potential of the Ares was strong enough to provoke both the Lyran Commonwealth and Clan Nova Cat to raid the location in search of this factory.
While there has been a great deal of hype surrounding each version of the Ares 'Mechs, they have roughly the same amount of weapons as can be loaded onto a 100 ton chassis and are outgunned by some Assault 'Mechs dating from the 3060s. One unique aspect of these 'Mechs is that they are manned with three personnel.

As part of an experimental project, only a few selected MechWarriors can operate this 'Mech. It is also notable that, as a secret project, most of those MechWarriors are the research scientist's children or family and some also received training since their very childhood.

The Ares is also canon as far as the timeline is concerned, it's just that we don't have any official rules, stats or record sheets for it yet.

[Duosky]

I vote no for >100 tons.

[purehidro]

135=10feet=no sinking

Edited by purehidro, 05 June 2012 - 06:34 PM.

[MagnusEffect]

Honestly, it is hard for me to even mention the Ares by name. Any real fan of the franchise would do well to pretend that **** never happened. WizKids, why did you bring that crap upon us? What did we do to you?

To anyone defending this ****:



Just because it is "canon" doesn't mean it was a good idea.

In Star Wars, were the ******* midiclorians a good idea? Was JarJar ******** a good idea? No... no they weren't.

Edited by MagnusEffect, 05 June 2012 - 06:41 PM.

[Hal Michelson]

Agromechs were listed at 80 ton and 120 ton for the two varieties. Both were ICE powered but you did see versions written up as converted "warmachines".

[Zyzyx66]

Anyone get the feeling that the 'mech weights in Btech are severely underestimated?

These are assumedly 12-metre (that's a three-storey building) high weapons platforms right? So comparing a kitted out 'mech with, say, an Abrams Main Battle Tank, shouldn't they weigh CONSIDERABLY more? An Abrams MBT weighs around 65-70 tons, and falls far short of a 'mech in size.

Are they constructed out of super-lightweight material, or is it just an abstraction that I shouldn't read so much into?

Edited by Zyzyx66, 05 June 2012 - 06:45 PM.

[Gendou]

Skylarr, on 05 June 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

Is Non-Canon

Is quite Canon.

Much as we might want to pretend the Jihad never happened...

[Sporkosophy]

MagnusEffect, on 05 June 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

Honestly, it is hard for me to even mention the Ares by name. Any real fan of the franchise would do well to pretend that **** never happened. WizKids, why did you bring that crap upon us? What did we do to you?

To anyone defending this ****:



Just because it is "canon" doesn't mean it was a good idea.

In Star Wars, were the ******* midiclorians a good idea? Was JarJar ******** a good idea? No... no they weren't.

Jar Jar was awesome, fact.

tynaiden, on 05 June 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

The original creators loosely went with making the techs say "it becomes too impractical in some aspects and/or gain no benefits". IE; quickly diminishing returns on power to weight ratio.

A big example just by using the expanded engine rating table originally from Maximum Tech source book.

To power a 150 ton 'mech at a 3/5 movement requires an engine rating of 450.
Under most basic equipment:
1) Engine: 133.5 tons
2) Cockpit: 3 tons
3) Gyroscope: 4.5 tons
4) Internal Structure: 15 tons
5) Jump Jets: [we'll not use any to give maximum load capacity]
Total left for armor, weapons, other equipment: -6 (yes, you are over weight by 6 tons)

Lightest general equipment possible
1) XXL Engine: 44.5 tons
2) Cockpit: 3 tons
3) Gyroscope: 2.5 tons
4) Endo Steel Internal Structure: 7.5
5) Jump Jets: [we'll not use any to give maximum load capacity]
Total left armor, weapons other equipment: 92.5

Now the cost, Battle Value, and lore availability just went up by many magnitudes with this 'possible' weight saving build. On top of that, your number of empty critical slots is greatly reduced. There may be a lot of weight left but you won't be able to fit much in.

Your IS weights are low, by Jihad: Final Reckoning, has to use a Heavy Duty Gyro, no Jump Jets or UMU units, and a couple other limitations/weight changes. The only canon Super Heavy moves 2/3, so that'll shift your engine weights down. Really, and there is extensive discussion on the table top forums on Catalyst's site, is to toss on the longest range weapons possible and use it as a mobile area denial/artillery platform. 3x Gauss Rifles, 2x LBX-10, C3i and Case II make is survivable and capable of dishing out the hurt. Its head armor/IS is also increased, so 16+ to decap it.

[MagnusEffect]

Gendou, on 05 June 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

Is quite Canon.

Much as we might want to pretend the Jihad never happened...

I am perfectly happy continuing to believe it didn't happen. Again.. **** the Jihad. I don't give a damn if it was an official publishing. All that **** was retarded and poorly written. Anyone saying differently is either a dumbass or secretly hates Battletech. Judgemental? On things like this, you can bet your *** I am.

Edited by MagnusEffect, 05 June 2012 - 06:53 PM.

[Carl Wrede]

Gendou, on 05 June 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

Is quite Canon.

Much as we might want to pretend the Jihad never happened...

What Jihad? Never heard of..

[Mechcockmander]

Mech builds?

http://www.solaris7.com/

[Skylarr]

In what novel or scource book are they mentioned?

[Arctic Fox]

Skylarr, on 05 June 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

In what novel or scource book are they mentioned?

The Omega? It's in Jihad: Final Reckoning.

[Skylarr]

MagnusEffect, on 05 June 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

I am perfectly happy continuing to believe it didn't happen. Again.. **** the Jihad. I don't give a damn if it was an official publishing. All that **** was retarded and poorly written. Anyone saying differently secretly hates Battletech. Judgemental? You bet your *** I am on things like this.

If you read the rule book on the Jihad many of the events did not happen. It is up to the GM to decide what really happen.

[tynaiden]

Sporkosophy, on 05 June 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

...
Your IS weights are low, by Jihad: Final Reckoning, has to use a Heavy Duty Gyro, no Jump Jets or UMU units, and a couple other limitations/weight changes. The only canon Super Heavy moves 2/3, so that'll shift your engine weights down. Really, and there is extensive discussion on the table top forums on Catalyst's site, is to toss on the longest range weapons possible and use it as a mobile area denial/artillery platform. 3x Gauss Rifles, 2x LBX-10, C3i and Case II make is survivable and capable of dishing out the hurt. Its head armor/IS is also increased, so 16+ to decap it.

My apologies. Should have put a disclaimer that I was working off memory and notes made from the first publication of Maximum Tech. I made a mobile turret fortress myself with the rules but it was ultimately little more than a mobile fire-base for area denial and downed after attacking forces regrouped.

It is possible, again, just not very economical and barely practical.


While the name that should not be mentioned is all over this topic;
I think the 'mech-clix may have been pressured to match the success of the Hero-clix, and Mage Knight lines so they went for the extreme lore stretching and appeal of the ultra-rare uber-units in those series as well. We all know what we ended up with though... a silly act of desperation / muscle-flexing. Just like Super Heavy 'Mechs tend to be even by rulebooks.

[SoundTech]

Duosky, on 05 June 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

I vote no for >100 tons.

This

[Sporkosophy]

No doubt they're rare, only the WoB had any, and even then I think they had what, a battalion? If we ever see them and LAMs again canonically, it'll be the RoTS post Fortress Republic.

[JP Josh]

all i can say on this subject is fallow the bord game rules laid out. other than that if you pilot a mech 100+ tons your probably going to need alot of support to keep the four scout mechs from eating you alive.

world of tanks every one took mause i took a tier two snuggled into the side of 4 members of the opposing team and killed them by shooting into the turrent well. funny how the smallest things can kill the biggest.

[MagnusEffect]

Skylarr, on 05 June 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

If you read the rule book on the Jihad many of the events did not happen. It is up to the GM to decide what really happen.

I know about that aspect of it, but those are specific "events". My problem is the whole Jihad itself. It's like the Wobbies suddenly learned how to engage cheatmode and built an army out of thin air large enough to take on everyone at once. YES, I KNOW all about the justifications they used in the books to explain how they built these armies and I DON'T CARE.

To put it simply, the whole Jihad arc stinks of a rushed job that was done simply to help explain away all the plot holes in Dark Age.

Edited by MagnusEffect, 05 June 2012 - 07:08 PM.

[PANZERBUNNY]

THE Leo, on 05 June 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

When you think about it, why the hell has no one ever tried creating a Mech over a 100 tons? It would mean more firepower, more space, and more awesomeness. Of course that would also mean even less maneuverability, even less speed, and even less response time.

Imagine feeling like a badass in your atlas thinking 'oh yeah i am a freaking boss' and then BAM! you come up to this Mech that makes you feel like crawling into bed and hiding beneath the blankets (like we all know that helps, ha!)

So a 100+ ton Mech huh?...... hmmmm... earthquake possibilities anyone??

Because you are a sitting duck for Air assets and the amount of cash and materials used to make 1 100+ ton monster could easily make an operational Lance of mechs to exert your influence.

The Death Star approach rarely pays off.