183 replies to this topic

[Mongoose Trueborn]

Renthrak, on 07 May 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

Change 'most people' to 'many people I know' and I would be more inclined to weigh your idea on the merits rather than having to work past feeling insulted. The fastest way to lose an argument is to claim "Everybody who matters agrees with me".

Really? That made you feel insulted?

How about you take a comparison of how many people were playing the game when it was fresh and new compared to where we are today. The numbers playing today are but a sliver of the registered users.

Balancing weapons takes analytics and the best analytics come from a larger data pool. I can't expect you to understand the macroeconomics of it all but I can't believe you would argue against it simply because you are in the minority and refuse to accept it.

Simply put, a new weapon system would vastly increase the active player base. More so than a tourney that is being used for the same reason.

[Mongoose Trueborn]

General Taskeen, on 07 May 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

How about they make all current weapons mostly viable and balanced first, for variety's sake. Also, niche crap like LB-X, MG, Flamer, and NARC all need serious re-work and not the incremental changes they make over several months. The May 27th update will not be enough for those items.

I agree that there is a bunch of work that still needs done. The point I'm trying to make is that you have all played with these various weapons and know that they need work. The players that aren't playing now because the game is stale aren't going to come running back because they tweak LRMS. They would however come back if a totally new weapon system is introduced and fun to play.

[IceSerpent]

FrostCollar, on 06 May 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

I'm seeing a lot of nos but no explanations. Why are you voting in that manner? Why wouldn't you want something like the Binary Laser in game? If there's even one weapon you'd like to see added, you have to vote yes.

Mostly because PGI is apparently unable to balance the weapons we already have. Adding new weapons won't make that task any easier.

[Renthrak]

Mongoose Trueborn, on 07 May 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

Balancing weapons takes analytics and the best analytics come from a larger data pool. I can't expect you to understand the macroeconomics of it all but I can't believe you would argue against it simply because you are in the minority and refuse to accept it.

Apparently using tact fails to get the point across, so I'll rephrase.

It annoys the hell out of me when otherwise reasonable people try and support their idea with claims that their personal opinion is shared by the majority of players. It's either fantastically arrogant or simply delusional. If you take the total number of players you have ever spoken to or heard from on the issue and assume that 100% of them agree with you, that would still be a vast minority of the people who play the game. You can certainly assume that a portion of the people you don't know might also share your opinion, but all you have as empirical data is that people similar to yourself have similar opinions on an issue.

It doesn't make you look any less obnoxious that, while very limited, the results of your own poll currently indicate that "Ignore canon and dump in more guns" is actually the minority opinion. Regardless, I never claimed to represent anyone other than myself. Throwing around words like 'analytics' and 'macroeconomics' doesn't add weight to your position, it just makes you look like you're trying to talk down to people.

Now, I don't know what most players think. I haven't met most of them, and only a tiny fraction have participated in the poll thus far. All that I can tell you with certainty is that I think your suggestion is just slightly more desirable than adding Optimus Prime and Megatron to round out the 'Mech line-up. I think it's totally misguided, poorly thought out, antithetical to the reasoning behind the form that MWO has taken, unkind to the most loyal parts of the fan base, and I doubt that it would work as intended anyway.

I wouldn't mind some sort of MWO expansion set during the Word of Blake jihad, with all of the juicy technology available during that era, but if PGI is going to do that, they should do it right.

I'm arguing against your idea because I don't like it. The fact that you insulted the intelligence of anyone who dares to disagree with you didn't help.

Edited by Renthrak, 08 May 2013 - 02:16 AM.

[Mercules]

Mongoose Trueborn, on 07 May 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

I agree that there is a bunch of work that still needs done. The point I'm trying to make is that you have all played with these various weapons and know that they need work. The players that aren't playing now because the game is stale aren't going to come running back because they tweak LRMS. They would however come back if a totally new weapon system is introduced and fun to play.

There is a good chance that the people who are not playing now because the game is stale are the same people who play a game for a few months and then move on and never come back no matter what you add to the game. Sometimes you have to let those that have left go and those that haven't joined yet be, and focus on those who are already playing.

I know (unlike you) that I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally would prefer that they get the current crop of weapons set up right before adding more. In fact I would be totally okay with LESS weapons in the game. Pull out DHS, ERPPCs, UAC/5s, Gauss, ECM, and such and the game would be at least twice as balanced as it is right now.

[Karl Streiger]

Mercules, on 08 May 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:

I know (unlike you) that I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally would prefer that they get the current crop of weapons set up right before adding more. In fact I would be totally okay with LESS weapons in the game. Pull out DHS, ERPPCs, UAC/5s, Gauss, ECM, and such and the game would be at least twice as balanced as it is right now.

Same here....sometimes terrible things happen...a complete time shift for example and suddenly we are back in the good old days of the 3rd Succession Wars....
throw away every Tech 2 weapon - balance the rest...if you have balance add the new stuff.

[KMCA]

We've got enough tech as is, if you want to risk ******* off the die hard fans by breaking canon you'll risk killing the game.

What OP doesn't seem to understand is that many of the die hard players are guys in their late 20's, 30's hell even 40's who've been playing since before the first Mechwarrior PC game. Hell I've still got my clan card deck kicking around somewhere.
These people have stuck it out (I couldn't play for an entire month FFS) and usually will put up with more BS than the new players because... Well we want to relive our childhoods, or play a modern version of our favorite game, or LOVE THE LORE.

I'm not going to pretend to be super into the mythos, hell I barely know half the details of the last succession war and the first half of the clan invasion. FFS my first introduction to MW was the TV show and MW2, Followed swiftly by the card game

[Victor Morson]

Jackson Jax Teller, on 06 May 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

we cant even have LRMs without the QQ patrol getting them nerfed into spitballs. You think a mega missile arty system will do better?

I think Arrow IVs should be what I wanted Artillery to be: Area denial.

Make the projectile move more or less straight up / straight down and hit hard with a damaging blast radius, but move far slower than even current LRMs and have limited to terrible tracking.

The result? It's not likely to hit you unless you are either tied down by the team, or refuse to move from a spot that's being shelled with Arrows.

It's a little different than what they're famous for, but I really think at least one good AOE "Stay and take damage, or leave and avoid it" weapon would have a huge niche in MW:O. It'd also be a great way to counter campers and jump snipers, because they'd have the option to either move or risk taking horrendous damage.

KMCA, on 08 May 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

We've got enough tech as is, if you want to risk ******* off the die hard fans by breaking canon you'll risk killing the game.

That said I honestly do kind of wish this followed through with the reboot stuff. I think if you were going to reboot to any era of BattleTech at all, it would be 3050. I think the majority of us are not too happy with the canon that evolved, esp. by the mid 3060s and I'd have no problem with things playing out differently.

Still it's pretty obvious they gave up on that idea and this takes place in the "main line" universe so I think we should stick to the schedule, so to speak.

EDIT: I am OK with a little rule bending though. MPBT3025 had the Raven and just labeled it "Experimental." If MW:O put out a Bushwacker this year and did the same thing, I wouldn't have a problem with it, for example. It's close enough within a year or two.

Edited by Victor Morson, 08 May 2013 - 11:30 AM.

[Soy]

I enjoyed reading this thread.

I have opinions, but will simmer on em this afternoon.

At the moment I have nothing pertinent to add but will placehold with this -

[Ecouto]

Gonna be a beech here, Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut, Only if they are time appropriate :3
Thats just how I feel xD

[Golfin Man]

Heavy Gauss

[Ice699]

Guys voted no are morons.
Mechwarrior fluff is huge!

WE NEED MORE WEAPONS. IT'S A FACT!!!
there is no to debate

[Phoenix Gray]

NEW WEAPONS ARE OP! NERF THEM NOW!

Golfin Man, on 08 May 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

Heavy Gauss

Why did my HG Spider just fall over sideways?

[El Bandito]

Improve the Machinegun, LBX, Pulse Lasers, LRMs etc.. and we suddenly have a lot more weapons!

[mack sabbath]

New weapons hell, just make the crap we have now actually DO DAMAGE when they've clearly center-massed a close target standing still.

No reason 3 gauss and 6 large lasers to the back of an afk Raven should do FOUR damage. The poptard children flying to his defense cored me in one alpha, so I know the enemies weapons were working just fine....

[Ice699]

Ignorant.
http://www.sarna.net...Equipment_Lists

[ThunderHart]

Not in time period.

[Ninthshadow]

Mongoose Trueborn, on 06 May 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

1) Curb complaints about existing weapons because everyone would be trying out the new weapon. This would give the dev team time to deploy changes needed to existing weapon systems.
2) Revitalize every mech variant. Having new weapons means new weapon combos and this would be tons of fun for those that love to spend hours in the mechlab.
3) Change the meta game. The meta has been determined by the new mechs out and what those mechs are most ideal with. By releasing some new weapons people would be trying different variants again to see what is the best fit.

I know PGI is trying to maintain a high and mighty approach to a specific timeline. While that is a really cool and honorable concept, the fact is that most people could care less and would simply rather have the ability to use different weapon systems.

I voted 'no'.

Reason one for adding weapons is a stop gap measure at best and could potentially lead to things becoming worse in the long run.

That subsequently runs over to reason 3. A change to the metagame is garenteed. What is not clear is if that would be a good change and that is arguably more vital.

It is also implied in the post (but not accurately reflected in the poll) that the Dev's 'high and mighty' timeline scheme has to go for the weapons to be implemented. This is not necessarily true since I am sure there is at least one weapon system which could be added without disrupting the timeline. All the same that assertion changes the slant on the entire question.

Without an option to vote for equipment additions which preserve the timeline and those that will not, I am going to vote against this change by default. In case that was all too much to read:

The question is too vague. Without knowing if it has been considered for a weapon system is reasonably balanced, lore friendly or appopriate to the timeline I will not support it being implemented.

Unspecified poll weapon meets none of these criteria. The fact I believe that the current weapons probably needs attention first never even got a glance at this topic.

Edited by Ninthshadow, 15 May 2013 - 07:44 AM.

[Hellcat420]

arrow IV system would be good.

Edited by Hellcat420, 15 May 2013 - 08:27 AM.

[Osski]

Renthrak, on 08 May 2013 - 02:12 AM, said:

Now, I don't know what most players think. I haven't met most of them, and only a tiny fraction have participated in the poll thus far. All that I can tell you with certainty is that I think your suggestion is just slightly more desirable than adding Optimus Prime and Megatron to round out the 'Mech line-up. I think it's totally misguided, poorly thought out, antithetical to the reasoning behind the form that MWO has taken, unkind to the most loyal parts of the fan base, and I doubt that it would work as intended anyway.

This right here.

While conventional wisdom would say that any new content is a good thing, plopping things into the game and just abandoning the mission statement of the developers simply to keep things fresh (and before launch has even happened, mind you) is just about as unwise as it gets.

Also, "I don't expect you to understand" is such a condescending and patronizing way to put forth any argument, just for future reference for the OP.

Edited by Osski, 15 May 2013 - 11:21 AM.