69 replies to this topic

[hammerreborn]

Let's face it, anyone can [POPTART], ppcboat, alphawarrior. Cheese is the name of the game and the game is cheese. Walking to the center of the map and shooting at each other is pretty much the opposite of a "thinking mans shooter" and causes the game to might as well be call of duty.

Having killing be a victory condition only rewards those people who put no effort into using those things called brains, and bringing the biggest guns and heaviest mechs is the best way to go about winning the pseudo TDM modes. Tonnage becomes more important than skill and intelligence, and a team outweighing the other by enough can just casually walk over the other team with minimal effort.

So remove it. It's not fun. Looking at your 3 awesomes and then seeing their 3 [POPTARTS] isn't entertaining, match after match.

Brian said that 80% of matches end with one team getting killed. Who the hell finds that fun? I find it boring. Walking to the center of the match and pewpewing 4 out of 5 rounds is lame, and ruining the game.

So please PGI, remove the killing condition. We're supposed to be capturing planets, not causing craters. Why are we getting rewarded for destroying our opponents? Think of all the salvage we should be getting when we capture the base? After all, when we win, those are 6-7 fully equipped mechs I SHOULD BE EARNING as rewards, much better than just getting a centurion leg.

If one team kills the other, both teams get a draw and no bonus rewards. This encourages smarter thinking, to cripple the enemy and then reap the rewards instead of hopping up and down like petulant children who have pooped their pants.

Change the base capture point to be based on the larger number of players in the box, so that one person can't deny 8 players, and bam, a true thinking mans shooter, not bunny hopping online.

Edited by Destined, 08 May 2013 - 08:47 AM.
Editied for content

[Atheus]

"Thinking man's shooter"... yet you wrote all that without realizing that once the enemy team is dead, it would just be redundant to go capture their base?

[hammerreborn]

Atheus, on 07 May 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

"Thinking man's shooter"... yet you wrote all that without realizing that once the enemy team is dead, it would just be redundant to go capture their base?

Yes, and you wouldn't get any salvage rewards for it, or any bonuses whatsoever. How will we defeat the clans (or the clans defeat us) if they just obliterated every mech on the field. No, it's about capturing the resources. That 100% atlas that is forced to surrender when the planet becomes mine should give me a far far far far better bonus than blowing up his two STs, a leg, and then the CT.

It's a thinking man's shooter because you have to judge risk vs rewards. Do you keep that Atlas' CT in tact for the engine and just disable the AC/20 and missile racks, do you leg him and leave him alone and hot in the middle of the desert, but risk your exposed rear/base? All of a sudden MGs see a giant rise in viability due to it's ability to shred weapons but leave the internal structure and most importantly the engine in tact.

TDM requires no thought. The largest gains are just mindlessly firing until mechs fall down, the opposite of "thinking".

TDM is the most mindless game mode in the world, and the game would be better without it. Even games like battlefield don't rely entirely on TDM, there's always objectives which are far more important to winning.

Edited by hammerreborn, 07 May 2013 - 12:11 PM.

[UXB]

The problem is more basic than that.. There's nothing wrong with having a "search and destroy" mission type, but the "game modes" are just that GAME modes. These don;t feel like missions, they feel like games, pure and simple. And frankly, PGI's "creative" team outta be embrassed. There is NOTHING creative about how this game is implemented. There COULD have been, and I honeslty thought there was going to be. I had assumed these lame modes we have now were place holders for a real objectives based mission generation system. But no.... it's just the same old nonsense. Very disappointing, I must say. C'mon PGI, SAVE this game, before it's too late.

[Tatula]

hmmmm... then maybe you should go play MW: Tactics, or maybe just stick with TT.

I, for one, definitely play MWO so I can pilot big stompy robots to go shoot other big stompy robots. I want to try ALL the stompy robots, even the light, not so stompy robots. I upgraded my PC so I can get the nice, smooth, animation of my stompy robot's cool weapons as they shoot other big stompy robots. No shooting = no fun.

[UXB]

Aloha, on 07 May 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

hmmmm... then maybe you should go play MW: Tactics, or maybe just stick with TT.

I, for one, definitely play MWO so I can pilot big stompy robots to go shoot other big stompy robots. I want to try ALL the stompy robots, even the light, not so stompy robots. I upgraded my PC so I can get the nice, smooth, animation of my stompy robot's cool weapons as they shoot other big stompy robots. No shooting = no fun.

Completely agree..... BUT it should happen in a context and not just another BS deathmatch. Some of the 'Mechs don't really come into their own until special situations arise.

[WarpGhost]

1) Sadly a lot of people like deathmatch, only deathmatch, and nothing but deathmatch. It's been like that since Quake. The majority are often wrong, but they are numerous and at least one of them will be able to work out where you live.
2) Winning by killing the enemy is intuitive and what we are primed for. Drawing or losing because you do is not.
3) Rewarding people for their pew-pew skillzor isn't actually a bad thing. A lot of people will go for the "easy mode" whatever it may be, even if many of them complain about it at the same time. It's all PGI's fault for FORCING them to cheese after all!
4) it's a mistake to assume that everyone dislikes cheese or that removing it would magically make the game better or more popular.

An alternate game mode that doesn't rely on a person's facility for murder would be very nice however and would probably be a personal favourite. I've always found non-deathmatch modes in games to be the most exciting and interesting. But that's is a personal taste.

Edited by WarpGhost, 07 May 2013 - 03:31 PM.

[Echo6]

WarpGhost, on 07 May 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

1) Sadly a lot of people like deathmatch, only deathmatch, and nothing but deathmatch. It's been like that since Quake. The majority are often wrong, but they are numerous and at least one of them will be able to work out where you live.
2) Winning by killing the enemy is intuitive and what we are primed for. Drawing or losing because you do is not.
3) Rewarding people for their pew-pew skillzor isn't actually a bad thing. A lot of people will go for the "easy mode" whatever it may be, even if many of them complain about it at the same time. It's all PGI's fault for FORCING them to cheese after all!
4) it's a mistake to assume that everyone dislikes cheese or that removing it would magically make the game better or more popular.

An alternate game mode that doesn't rely on a person's facility for murder would be very nice however and would probably be a personal favourite. I've always found non-deathmatch modes in games to be the most exciting and interesting. But that's is a personal taste.

Facility for murder? This bunch doesn't have any warfare in them. Just gameplaying.

Edited by Echo6, 07 May 2013 - 04:24 PM.

[Stone Profit]

I am a Davion, and I approve this message. DOWN WITH SKILL, BOX STANDING WINS ONLY!

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Currently there are two modes of play, capture the resorces (conquest), or eliminate the opposition (assault). And similar options within each type. (kill everything)

What options are available to the pilots now, capture the base, kill everything. There is not even an option to "disengage", try it and you are destroyed on the boundary of the battlefield.[Is this a tactical withdrawal, yes, will I be back to fight again, yes. You can "temporally" have the field.]

This does not allow for the CW options of allowing the Enemy to "disengage" or surrender the "objective". Many novels and books tell of battles that were won with out decimating decisive engagements or having to kill/destroy everything. Tactical maneuvering, simply out gunning your opponent, a stalemate engagement(both parties loose everything and still don't get the objective).

Not every battle will end with one side reduced to smoking piles of slag. There will have to be an option to withdraw before suffering catastrophic or mission failure loss's. What has been hinted at by the Dev.'s [option to bring up to 4 mech's to the fight] may indicate a re-task of certain understrength lances with additional forces to "reengage" the opposition.

Additionally there has been talk of "defensive" structures with there own weapons, again this leads to possible changes to mission types. (defend, assault, neutralize, capture, escort?)

More options are on the way, we just have not been made aware of them. (from the Dev.'s)Read: We are not ready to discuss anything about CW or the Clans at this time.

Later,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 07 May 2013 - 05:21 PM.

[Sephlock]

But if we keep kills as a victory condition, eventually the Tetatae will take over.

[Roland]

Quote

Let's face it, anyone can [POPTART], ppcboat, alphawarrior.

Based on what I'm seeing in game, it's obvious that everyone can NOT do those things, or at least, not effectively.

[Echo6]

Roland, on 07 May 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

Based on what I'm seeing in game, it's obvious that everyone can NOT do those things, or at least, not effectively.

These are the low-hanging fruit of MW; eaten only by those of low stature.

[Homeless Bill]

If you give the brainless people like me a team deathmatch mode (something like this to prevent the endless run-around) of our own to go **** around in, I support this idea. As it is, they're trying to mix oil and water together.

I'll never think capturing is fun, and CapWarriors will never think TDM is fun. It's ridiculous to give us two sort-of-objective-modes that satisfy neither crowd. These two crowds will never see eye to eye, we'll never play nicely together, and compromising robs both sets of players of fun.

[Roland]

Also, folks realize the point of mechwarrior is killing mechs, right?

I mean, if that's not your cup of tea, maybe mechwarrior isn't for you?

[Helsbane]

Before this degrades any further...

This game desperately need more modes. More mission types. More ways to win via those 'thinking man's' strategies. Hell we even need a TDM, because then the folks that desperately want one would have a place to go play with each other, and leave the strategic missions to the rest of us.

Shooting each other has always been a large part of MW and BT, but there was usually a reason behind it. Search and destroy missions are pretty rare in and of themselves, often being a part of a larger overall plan when they DO happen. Bring in Solaris for the TDM crowd, but give the rest of us something to seige, capture, hold, defend, sink, deny, SOMETHING. I'm not talking about the little base resource gathering oil rig, I mean an airbase, a supply depot, something of actual value. Something worth fighting for.

[Roland]

Quote

Shooting each other has always been a large part of MW and BT, but there was usually a reason behind it.

Not really, dude.
Battletech was generally about you having a lance of robots, and your enemy having a lance, and whoever killed the other robots won.

[DCLXVI]

why is every one against adding anything to this game? someone needs to start a poll... would you love mwo if it was one vs one in a square? for a thinking mans shooter this game sure attracted the very simplest of minds on this planet. lets make everyone happy and take content out!

Edited by DCLXVI, 07 May 2013 - 07:00 PM.

[Keifomofutu]

Roland, on 07 May 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

Also, folks realize the point of mechwarrior is killing mechs, right?

I mean, if that's not your cup of tea, maybe mechwarrior isn't for you?

Maybe they thought this was some weird DDR mod?

[MeiSooHaityu]

Sorry OP, but no. I disagree.

Like a few have said, the game does need some more modes, but any way you look at it, dfeating the enemy is a win condition.

I am hoping CW brings some additional depth, but we will have to wait and see.