464 replies to this topic

[MavRCK]

A good read to go along-side this list:

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/101194-updated-common-mechs-in-run-hot-or-die-competitive-league-mech-designs

[Aceramic]

I find it amusing (from a PuG standpoint, I haven't gotten into competitive teams {yet, at least}) that all of my current favorite mechs are at or near the bottom of the list. *snicker*

[MavRCK]

Aceramic, on 16 May 2013 - 11:19 PM, said:

I find it amusing (from a PuG standpoint, I haven't gotten into competitive teams {yet, at least}) that all of my current favorite mechs are at or near the bottom of the list. *snicker*

But that's okay... Just because a mech isn't high on the "competitive tournament tier list" doesn't mean it isn't fun.. or that you can't carry your team..

I like strawberry ice cream. You like mint chocolate chip.

We probably won't get our favourite ice cream in a dessert from a michelin star restaurant.

But hey, maybe you prefer diners and chinese restaurants... not everyone wants to go to a michelin star restaurant.. but that also doesn't mean a patron or chef won't appreciate a michelin star restaurant.

[Psikez]

List is accurate for what it is.

I recall the first time I fought a sniper team in RHoD and it confused the hell outta me

Now its mostly what you see

[Mazzyplz]

MavRCK, on 17 May 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

But that's okay... Just because a mech isn't high on the "competitive tournament tier list" doesn't mean it isn't fun.. or that you can't carry your team..

I like strawberry ice cream. You like mint chocolate chip.

We probably won't get our favourite ice cream in a dessert from a michelin star restaurant.

But hey, maybe you prefer diners and chinese restaurants... not everyone wants to go to a michelin star restaurant.. but that also doesn't mean a patron or chef won't appreciate a michelin star restaurant.

you posted this on new player help forum.
it means you're encouraging new players to minmax or to abandon all hope of buying a dragon or an awesome, and that's bogus.

add these to the list:
http://i60.photobuck...zps5fe37066.png
http://i60.photobuck...zpsfdc1afbd.png
http://i60.photobuck...zpse6cb1b00.png

Edited by Mazzyplz, 19 May 2013 - 02:58 PM.

[MavRCK]

Mazzyplz, on 19 May 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

you posted this on new player help forum.
it means you're encouraging new players to minmax or to abandon all hope of buying a dragon or an awesome, and that's bogus.

add these to the list:

Encouraging people to do what? Choose a car that's great value for the money?

Min/max - do you hear me say use this build or that?

You can love your Mustang 500 all you want, but if I had to choose between a Porsche GT3 and a Mustang 500 -- my money is on the GT3.

The 911 chassis is arguably far and away the better chassis.

Argue all you want now..

PS:

And what tournament was this?

Where were you with your Marik brothers last week?

Oh wait, you're pugging.. or running in a 4 or 8 man premade...



You think your awesome can take on my Spider?

http://www.twitch.tv...avrck/c/2292506



Frankly, you're ignoring the previous posts and contributing little if any to the discussion.

Edited by MavRCK, 19 May 2013 - 05:30 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

that's a nice opinion of you to hold, like the rest of this list.

much like you saying porsche carrera is the best car, that's an apt analogy for this list. one man's opinion.

am i not contributing to this post? i don't think you're contributing to this subforum with this thread

oh and i don't play 8 man, so i wasn't there with the marik, but i have no obligation to play with them.
i pug because i like to pug

Edited by Mazzyplz, 19 May 2013 - 05:35 PM.

[Chalkman]

Mazzyplz, chill out. I still run Dragons/ Cataphracts1X/ Hunchback-4H. No one is saying that these mechs can't be played well or that you can't have fun in them. Hell, my best K/D is in my Dragon-1N! So the tier list isn't 100% right for every pilot.

But I think that we can generally agree that there are some mechs that are easier to pilot. These are the mechs that the average player will learn the ins and outs of the quickest and get the best results from right off of the bat.

There are also certain mechs are dominant under the current meta. I don't like the meta as is, but it will change as balance changes, and the list will change to reflect that.

Explaining these two things is the purpose of the tier list.

No one is trying to reduce variety or tell you how to play the game/ have fun. You aren't a bad player for piloting an Awesome. I'm not an elite pilot for using a Jenner-F. Remember, this is only a game.

Edited by Chalkman, 19 May 2013 - 08:48 PM.

[MavRCK]

Updated with new list of 21/05/13 -- Looking forward to testing the new BAP changes, New Map, New Missiles, New Mech! Whoa so much to try out!

Enjoy!

[scJazz]

MavRCK, on 12 May 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

21/05/2013 Updated List with New Tiers (Thanks QKI! My polish friend!) - I encourage everyone to watch the video.


Week of 21/05/2013 - Patch Number: ? BAP PATCH!

Open Beta Update #17

Upcoming Patch - Tuesday May 21st @ 10AM – 1PM PDT

Patch Number: 1.2.223

[MavRCK]

Streaming live and discussing the new patch changes... brought back the streak cat for Shtt... and giggles..

[Quintt]

you always get so much grief on your posts Mav lol. Good work setting up te tiers, im sure alot of players apreciate it.

[Cubivorre]

MavRCK, on 19 May 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

You think your awesome can take on my Spider?

http://www.twitch.tv...avrck/c/2292506

[Frisk]

Can we get PGi to post actual numbers that aren't as subjective as these?

Edited by Frisk, 21 May 2013 - 01:14 PM.

[FallenSeraphim]

I can appreciate what you are doing by making a short list of which mechs are, in your opinion, better than others. However I see this ranking of yours less useful to new players than what it appears to be.

New players (actually all players) should pick mechs that suit their play style, and mechs that suit the role the player wants to fill. Detailing what you feel are the strengths and disadvantages of each variant, as well as why you feel it excels in a certain niche would be more useful for new players. As you imply if your video, access to complete information allows one to make an informed decision.

What I disagree with is what you have done is taken a complex game of paper-rock-scissors and linearized it in a very subjective fashion. For example, you rank the Jenner-F as Superior to the Disadvantaged Jenner-K. I however in my opinion I rank the K above the F because I value survivability and battlefield awareness over DPS. The K's 4 module slots vs the F's 2 (both mastered) is worth the trade in weapon hardpoints (1xmissile vs 2xenergy respectfully). Sure the F is less vulnerable to ECM but the same can be done to the K. With the right setup, a good team, or a good pilot the K can be very "competitive."

And then there's the D vs K debate. Again, it depends on what you value more, missile slot or module slot. This is what's great about the Jenner - you have 3 variants that are all viable, but have their perceived strengths and weaknesses. And the balance will change relative to each other when new weapons, modules, etc are incorporated into the game. But it's up to the player to decide what works for them. And the same paper-rock-scissors-moose-shotgun-elephant-mouse-cat balance will forever be changing, and so will the subjective perception of the balance.

We don't want new players thinking "I'm going to play a Raven 3L because it out competes all the other lights." We want them thinking "I'm a *blank* type of player who wants to do *blah.* I play a 3L because it's good at X and does a better job at doing *blah* than a 2D." This approach facilitates new players to expand to new roles and provides them with the information, good and bad, about which mechs may work for them. And when they expand their roles they stick around longer, and that keeps the community alive.

[redacted]

I may not type often, but when I do I type alot...

Edited by miSs, 24 May 2013 - 01:08 PM.
issue has been resolved :)

[Lorokin]

I had no idea that people actually made lists of "better" mechs in a BETA game when not ALL components and Mechs are in the game currently, OR that it's major selling point (Community Warfare) isn't even implemented yet. And then think that it's a good "New Player" guide.

Sorry, MavRCK, but this is simply arrogance. Yes, you may be in a tournament league. Yes, you may have a Twitch channel. Yes, you may have a better score/eLO/KDR/wtf-ever. But who cares?

You list of mechs based on YOUR opinion, that does NOT make it fact. In other words, that's very misleading for new pilots. If you can't wrap your brain around this simple concept then you really have no business posting or doing twitch feeds as your spreading conjecture as truth.

Ton-for-ton ANY mech can do well, it's all dependent upon the PILOT, not the chassis. Is ECM beneficial to have? Yes, of course it is, it's broken and not in the true spirit of the original design for the equipment. (This is not a divirgence but simple truth.) However, this does not mean that ECM mechs are above all the other ones, they just simply do not have that SINGLE (one trick pony) advantage. Enter BAP, "hey ECM, **** of here". Now you will see the re-emergance of the CTPL-A1 (Splat Kitty and LRM Missile Boat).

Your list is archaic the minute you put it up because this game is ever changing in this purely BETA environment. Not only that it's completely subjective to YOUR opinion and that is not FACT. If you wanted to list "What is used in Tournament/Elitist/Circle-Jerk/Pat-myself-on-the-back/Stroke-my-epeen arena's that's fine. Becuase that's NOT OPINION, it's FACT.

Learn the difference between FACTS and OPINIONS then post. And go ahead and flame me in your twitch channel, we have a good laugh about it.

#dropthemic

[MavRCK]

Ton for ton, class for class the Atlas DDC is better than the Atlas K. That's a fact!

I'm also going to rank modules because I like the abuse! joke!

1. Seismic module - very op at the moment, i think it should be removed!
2. Coolant flush - needed to maximize your damage (more in tournament play than solo queue)
3. Advanced sensor range - see things farther away!
4. Target decay - i think this is more useful than 360 when chasing one on one, but it's a personal preference
5. Capture accelerator - cap quicker, really depends on how many modules you have and what tactics your team uses
6. 360 decay - useful following lights but if you're a light you might find target decay works well enough
7. Target info gathering - get information sooner but do you really need it when you should be focusing CTs and RTs?
8. Advanced zoom - limitations of the engine cause this to be grainy, highly personal, rarely used
9. Artillery - Airstrikes - just not doing enough damage, cool smoke though

Not placed - UAV - this is extremely interesting and I'm holding off ranking it. It might be hugely important or not at all in tournament play as good teams often don't rely on radar when brawling as much as good team communication. Being able to target under ECM is useful, but how much, how so outside of pugging..

Edited by MavRCK, 27 May 2013 - 08:22 AM.

[WaddeHaddeDudeda]

Hammerfinn, on 16 May 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

However, I really feel this doesn't belong in the new players section. No mech is fundamentally "better" than another, and all these lists do for new players is make them think that they have to play the most popular mechs.

Gotta kindly disagree here.
Some Mechs are utterly trash and probably only fun to drive when you want to seriously handicap yourself.

Example: Raven 4X.
In a competitive setting the primary task of lights is to scout a little and find out where the enemy is heading to, tapping the enemy base or securing the own base and, of course, fighting against other lights in those bases (because lights usually get dispatched to the bases first) or where ever necessary.

Now what weapons are good against lights?
I'm pretty sure we can agree on SSRMs and various laser types (mainly medium and small pulse and regular lasers).
So what hardpoints does the 4X has?
Righto, 2 x energy, 1 x missile, 2 x ballistic.

The worthwile ballistic weapons are way to heavy for such a light, which leaves you with the bad ballistic weapons (MGs and small caliber autocannons).
Good luck in killing other lights with those.

Now that we got rid off the entire left section of the 4X we can shed some light at the right section.
2 x energy + 1 x missiles leaves us with what? 2 medium pulse Lasers + 1 SSRM 2?
How shall a 4X stop a 3L with its 3 ML + 2 SSRMs and ECM (= the single SSRM of the 4X won't work thanks to the ECM)? Or a Jenner F with 6 ML?
Heck, the engine cap for the 4X is at 245. So it doesn't even has a decent chance to at least run away from the others.

Is it less fun to drive than the other variants? Probably, depending on the things the pilot will enjoy (i.e.: pure winning, ability to kill other Mechs, driving an "underdog"...).
Is it inferior to other lights in the game, given the competitive 8's setting? Hell yes"

See my points? Keep in mind that those are applying for competitive 8's on the highest level.
Mav stated this already multiple times.


There also might be Mechs where the difference isn't as huge as in the example above.
Heck, even I (being on the same team like Mav) don't agree with any detail.
But take the list for what it is: a suggestion and reflection (influenced by personal opinions) of what's currently getting used in the competitive scene of MWO.
Not more, not less.

It may help absolute beginners to avoid the garbage Mechs (and therefore have an easier win and therefore sticking to the game rather than uninstalling after a couple frustrating smackdowns) and also people who plan to enter the competitive scene anytime soon.

For everyone who doesn't agrees (WITHOUT being able to deliver CONSTRUCTIVE criticism based on the SAME LEVEL = competitive 8's): this forum is big enough, just **** this lawn and do something else with your time.

Mazzyplz, I'm ESPECIALLY talking to you.
You already stated that you have no clue about competitive 8's, yet you keep posting bad screenshots (jeez, 600 Dmg in an assault? - you should be ashamed, rather than proud) from meaningless PUB-games.
What's the point?



EDIT (to squeeze in this):

FallenSeraphim, on 21 May 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

And then there's the D vs K debate.

Assuming you would run the D with 4 ML + 2 SSRM 2s in a competitive game (pre BAP buff - no experience with the current situation) this would mean that your Jenner D and lets say Raven 3L would face off against 2 x Raven 3L ('cuz that was and probably still is THE light to go in competitive games).
Thanks to ECM superiority not only the Jenner D could not fire its SSRMs, even its teammate (the 3L) would be affected in a bad way.
While your lights lose a significant amount of firepower they simply getting roflstomped, unless they get help by their teammates...which may lead to other big disadvantages for the rest of the team.
As for the comment that beginners should buy Mechs that suit their playstyle: I agree!
But how do they KNOW what their playstyle is and what Mechs are good for them?
Odds are high that they're buying trash and then are forced to sell it again, burning through their Cbills rather quickly.
With any of the Tier 1, and pretty much most of the Tier 2 Mechs one can not do much wrong.
Bought a DDC? Don't like it's designated brawler setup? Simply switch some guns and try to snipe with it.
It's not that players are limited to the "common" configs.
But better experiment with a "better" weapon plattform, rather than with a "shotty" one.

Edited by WaddeHaddeDudeda, 27 May 2013 - 12:25 PM.

[80Bit]

Thanks for the listing. I don't play competitively so I mostly can't comment on the rankings. But I am really confused about the Atlas-RS.

If the competitive community does not consider the Atlas-RS top tier, the game play must be markedly different than standard matches.

[WaddeHaddeDudeda]

The Atlas RS used to be THE assault sniper (quad PPC + Gauss) until PGI introduced the Gauss explosion (it kills instantly 60 % of your weapons) and the Stalker, which is a lot more durable (given it's shape) and able to fire off an even bigger alpha (60 pts. vs. 55 pts.) if desired and thats all for 15 tons UNDER (which is getting important if you have to play with total tonnage restrictions rather than class restrictions).

Edit: Yes, the above one was ONE sentence (lol).
Also the introduction of the Highlander buried the RS even more.
While not having such a high alpha it's well worth to give up some damage points for the added mobility (read: JJs).

Edited by WaddeHaddeDudeda, 27 May 2013 - 12:31 PM.