324 replies to this topic

[Squirtbox]

shabowie, on 20 May 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

Well you have no way of saying that definitively at this point. The shake might be so bad it's entirely luck based. Remember PGI likes to really overdo **** and make multiple stacking corrections together. It might be entirely impossible once they get done.

If they actually make the reticle shake instead of just the screen like they did for ballistic and missile impacts.

[shabowie]

Squirtbox, on 20 May 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

If they actually make the reticle shake instead of just the screen like they did for ballistic and missile impacts.

Yeah I'm assuming they are gonna make the reticule move or the actual shot divert from the aim point. If its just graphical it won't do much at all. The reticule actually shakes a little right now on the way up...

Also I'm assuming the shake will last for the entire duration of the jump, not just the thrust part.

Edited by shabowie, 20 May 2013 - 08:09 AM.

[VXJaeger]

stjobe, on 20 May 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

The big question is: How will this affect my SDR-5D poptart?

Let's hope that PGI brings shakin' only to bigger and more powerful class of JJs than what Spider uses.

[jakucha]

shabowie, on 20 May 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

Yeah I'm assuming they are gonna make the reticule move or the actual shot divert from the aim point. If its just graphical it won't do much at all. The reticule actually shakes a little right now on the way up...

Seeing as how arms/torso shoot exactly where the reticle is pointing and therefore move with it, it seems like it will be more than just graphical.

[Fate 6]

CapperDeluxe, on 20 May 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

Jump jet reticle shake will not kill poptarting outright you know. It will make it a bit more difficult and more open to retaliation, and that alone may cause some to not partake anymore. But it will still be a valid tactic and deadly in the right hands. Win-win.


See here for a sample of what it could be like from MWLL

You're making me cry that we don't have exactly that game. It actually looks like a Mechwarrior game.

[Sybreed]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 20 May 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

I agree, I'm actually starting to get optimistic.

While I don't always agree with the tactics PGI uses to fix the issues they've created. At least they are trying to address them.

and to think all this could have been avoided with a little more planning and foreseeing.

Different hardpoint system (cough**size*cough) a bit like MWT but with a little less freedom and JJ shake from the start would prevent most issues.

No LRM boating, so no LRMapocalypse, no PPC apocalypse, no any kind of apocalypse.

[jakucha]

Sybreed, on 20 May 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

No LRM boating, so no LRMapocalypse, no PPC apocalypse, no any kind of apocalypse.

The LRMapocalypse was more attributed to the missiles being bugged and doing multiplied damage.

[Sybreed]

jakucha, on 20 May 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

The LRMapocalypse was more attributed to the missiles being bugged and doing multiplied damage.

yes, although I agree that boating did make the issue a lot easier to spot, I still think LRMs will be never be balanced as long as a mech can fire 100 LRMs at once.

[Petroshka]

Players that are good at poptarting are just *good*. Using poptarting doesn't automatically make you a super player or give you some sort of advantage that cannot be overcome. I've seen plenty of popderps that keep getting gaussed in the stomach as they pop over and over in the same damn spot, or getting hammered by a flanking maneuver.

on the flip side, i've seen a lot of clownboats just sitting in the middle of an open field with 4x zoom waiting for a poptarter to re-emerge behind a ridge only to be gibbed by an ac40 sneaking up on him (then crying about noskill poptarters).

In my gaming group we have a dude who is extremely skilled at poptarting. He uses it not as the normal one trick pony you see the fotm zombies use (sit behind the same building and pop up and down like some brainless jack in the box), instead he uses it as an extension to normal combat to gain an advantage over mechs that cannot pop, or don't expect him to pop. People will still cry poptart.. but fact is, he would be just as good with JJ shake, he would just adjust his playstyle to fit.

[Sybreed]

also, is there other interesting stuffs that got discussed in the latest podcast? I don't really feel listening to an hour of talk... :s

[pencilboom]

can someone kindly quote what the official said on the podcast?

[Bobdolemite]

I think this whole thing is kind of sad, instead of people learning to deal with a lazy tactic they cried and cried and cried on the forums until their eyes bled and then pressured PGI into adding a arbitrary "tax" on a skill that threatened their inflated senses of self worth.

Your targeting reticule does not shake when you run at any speed and move over a small hill, bump, gradient, even boulders and rocks or mountains. This is due to the copious amounts of gyroscopes installed throughout the mech, Some modern weapons in our day can accomplish this same task. So why in a game where you completely ignore shake in all aspects would you have shake while a mech is moving vertically?

I would be willing to have the conversation about global shake but adding it just for the poptart dynamic is arbitrary and worthless. Because of this not only will 3d's and highlanders be affected but Jenners and Raven 4x + other innocent bystanders.

I never had an issue dealing with poptarts under normal circumstances. The only times it was an issue was with massive weight/skill mismatches but this wasnt just an issue with poptarts it was with loadout - not much a mixed team can do against all assault in a brawl. Perhaps its because I played a few poptarts that I understood what they needed in order to be successful. If you take them out of their comfort zone then they lose their advantage.

So the issues of high pinpoint alpha weapon damage, convergence, broken or missing content (missiles) has been mistakenly identified as a poptart problem and PGI has dutifully moved in to fulfill your wishes adding an arbitrary skill remover ala JJ shake. The game is now less diverse, your contribution has been noteworthy thank you for your tears.

Whether you want to admit it or not it takes skill to hit a moving target at 1000 meters +, skill being defined as a steady hand and accurate hand eye coordination that allows you to line the shot up, JJ shake is a random introduction so no matter how steady your hand is or accurate your eye the reticule will move randomly without any coherent way to counter balance it using skill IE skill remover instead of skill enhancer.

Something that could have been done with long term weapon balancing and or minor weight or loadout matching now accomplished through JJ Shake:

Trainer: "Now youngblood lets fire up those jumpjets!"
Yougblood: "Ive heard about these lets give it a go!"
Youngblood hits his jumpjets and flails wildly in the air
Youngblood:"Wait what the hell was that?"
Trainer: "Yah thats the new addition! The galactic troll police decided jumping and shooting was OP so now they added jump flailing to add skill"
Youngblood: "Wait so we cant jump and shoot at the same time? This is stupid why not?"
Trainer: "Silly youngblood, jumpjets are for travel only not combat *rolls eyes*"

[Stoicblitzer]

pencilboom, on 20 May 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

can someone kindly quote what the official said on the podcast?

[Keifomofutu]

DING DONG.

[Terror Teddy]

I really dont see the problem.

And indirect poptarting with LRM's will still be a viable tactic as they jump up, launch, land and then maintain lock until target is hit.

[Coolant]

silentD11, on 20 May 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

Nope it won't. Because the current meta of running as a blob to TDM or setting up a TDM firing line instead of actually capturing just means people will move to the next FOTM build and milk the crap out of that. As long as people are playing with kills as their priority there will always be an OP build to move to.

I've been through a fastback 4p, gaussapult, streakcat, splatcat, DDC-ECM, 3L, boomcat, 3d, LRM armageddon, all when they were at their top and the OP build. And since people insist on just killing, I'll get whatever is OP next because as long as it's about kills and not caps there will always be something broken to stomp people with.

Nerf whatever, as long as we have a TDM meta there will always be something broken for us to move to. I'll always be able to min max entirely off of killing and killing alone. It's just a matter of moving from mech to mech, but there will always be something that's the most lethal for me to run the crap out of.

Agree...ahh, please bring in a Team Battle mode where points are awarded on a multiplier based on weight, higher the multiplier the smaller the tonnage...oh and respawn

[Corvus Antaka]

a pop-tart behind a building is like a mech with a stationary invincible shield that only has to briefly exit or bring down the shield to fire and then can completely shield itself again. It is a ridiculous mechanism that is finally being fixed.

Hopefully along with the shake we will get jumpjets with more power and oomph/jumphieght.

[Chavette]

Sybreed, on 20 May 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

also, is there other interesting stuffs that got discussed in the latest podcast? I don't really feel listening to an hour of talk... :s

Not really.

[Lumpypants]

Of course the mech would shake from jumpjets. While using the jets...
1. Gyroscopes and dampers can't counteract it. Your legs are what automatically adjust to changing terrain. There may be some small dampers within the torso. But there's nothing that allows the cockpit to move in 6 axes independently form the torso. Especially if you have the jets strapped to your @$$.
2. You're lifting on thrust alone. No control surfaces come into play.

That should change once the jets are shut off. You're in freefall. That also means you shouldn't be able to twist while falling. No thrust to vector.

[Carrion Hound]

I have a cigarette, a bottle of fine scotch, and a bag of popcorn for that day.