103 replies to this topic

[80Bit]

Nightcrept, on 26 May 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Because as soon as you make Lrms powerful enough to be better in line with the other weapons per ton the ultra boats come out in droves and the player base QQ's.

You mean like players QQ about PPC boats, SRM boats, AC/20 boats, Gauss boats, etc?

You are correct however that LRM hate is particularly venomous. But there was a day when 30 LRM was effective and respected, and the QQ was only slightly deafening.

[Sephlock]

80Bit, on 26 May 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

You mean like players QQ about PPC boats, SRM boats, AC/20 boats, Gauss boats, etc?

You are correct however that LRM hate is particularly venomous. But there was a day when 30 LRM was effective and respected, and the QQ was only slightly deafening.

Seriously, when Clan LRMs hit the scene, they are going to be nerfed so ******* hard, and so unreasonably, because of the epic tide of QQ.

[Nightcrept]

Unfortunately what we find here in this community is that a lot of players want to be able to run out in the open and circle strafe each other and or snipe without any sort of missile weapons.

So anything that causes them to slow down and or play otherwise is going to get monumental QQing.

The devs reaction to the splash bug patch and resulting QQing was to remove missiles almost entirely. This has drastically changed the game meta making most of the players who QQ about missiles very happy and creating many newer players who think this is a purely sniper/brawling circle strafe game.

So any change whatsoever to bring missiles back in line with where they should be is going to be met with a huge amount of QQing.

[Livewyr]

CPVincent, that effect is why LRMs needed to be boated in the first place, you couldn't use them in concert with other weapons simply because they required so much attention. (one you fired LRMs at a far target, if you had to engage a closer one, you had to either soak up the close damage to maintain the missiles, or sacrifice the missiles to engage the closer target.

thus boating missiles and staying far back became the sensible option if one wanted to use LRMs

[Sephlock]

They need to leave LRMs as-is after buffing them for several months, the way they left ECM super broken for forever.

Enough of this HEY HERES A TINY TINY TINY TINY GLIMPSE OF HOPE.

24 hours later: NOPE! NERF BAT!

[Sephlock]

Sorry for the horrid dub:



There's a new LRM buff. You want the patch?

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

LRM damage way up and the time between volleys extended to 1 second if fired from inadequate hardpoint (for example you put lrm 15 to hardpoint which has 6 silos the volleys should fire with significant delay). The disadvantage for boating LRM in whatever rusty bucket is not enough.

[Sephlock]

IV Amen, on 26 May 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

LRM damage way up and the time between volleys extended to 1 second if fired from inadequate hardpoint (for example you put lrm 15 to hardpoint which has 6 silos the volleys should fire with significant delay). The disadvantage for boating LRM in whatever rusty bucket is not enough.

[Nebuchadnezzar2]

LRM is a support weapon and need to stay that way
It must not have same effectiveness with direct fire weapon
It must not become the main killing weapon because stompy robots war is close range fighting at heart where we can witness the awesomeness of tearing each others limbs
Is lrm is good it will simply takes this away, everyone will use it and the gameplay will become pathetic

If lrm users complaint about how less damage they deal, ill say that what it is supposed to be because it takes much less effort to use lrm
I dont mind that lrm deal much damage as long as it is spread all over the body so it is not lethal. It must not be lethal

The other option is that lrm is lethal but at very very restricted ammo

The all missile game is simply boring and takes the soul away from this game. Please do not let this happen

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Sephlock, on 26 May 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

The Troll is strong in you, noble Sephlock.

What I would like to see is high LRM damage and proper use of hardpoints. People sticking LRM15 to NARC tubes whenever LRM damage is buffed for christs sake.

[Sephlock]

It doesn't take "much less effort" to use LRMs, though. Unless we're talking about sniping without advanced zoom- and even then, all you need to do is walk forward a bit (or jump jet) fire, then walk backwards (or let yourself fall).

With LRMs you have to stay exposed until impact- and if someone attacks you in the meantime, you have to stare at your original target:

[Otto Cannon]

Hotthedd, on 26 May 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

I have no problem with that.

[Nightcrept]

Nebuchadnezzar2, on 26 May 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:

LRM is a support weapon and need to stay that way
It must not have same effectiveness with direct fire weapon
It must not become the main killing weapon because stompy robots war is close range fighting at heart where we can witness the awesomeness of tearing each others limbs
Is lrm is good it will simply takes this away, everyone will use it and the gameplay will become pathetic
If lrm users complaint about how less damage they deal, ill say that what it is supposed to be because it takes much less effort to use lrm
I dont mind that lrm deal much damage as long as it is spread all over the body so it is not lethal. It must not be lethal
The other option is that lrm is lethal but at very very restricted ammo
The all missile game is simply boring and takes the soul away from this game. Please do not let this happen

No.Close range fighting is only a small part of the soul of this game. What your asking for is to remove everything but your preferred play style. The game was fine back when lrms had a bite say around January. Lrms would kill you if you didn't respect them but didn't rule the meta. All this junk happened because of the splash bug patch, the extreme QQing that resulted and the over reaction of pgi that resulted in a nerf instead of a removal.

[Asmudius Heng]

Also - what does 'Support' weapon even mean?

This again comes down to a lack of vision about how LRMs are suppose to be used.

The role and concept of a weapon needs to come before the mechanics.

[Sephlock]

Asmudius Heng, on 26 May 2013 - 10:31 PM, said:

Also - what does 'Support' weapon even mean?

This again comes down to a lack of vision about how LRMs are suppose to be used.

The role and concept of a weapon needs to come before the mechanics.

"Support weapon" = "critseeker" = "heat based weapon" = useless.

[Sephlock]

How about instead of nerfing things left and right, we keep things powerful and just stop making gigantic, open maps that are basically shooting galleries.

Canyon is a good compromise but Alpine and to a lesser extent Tourmaline have traumatized me...

[Asmudius Heng]

Sephlock, on 26 May 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

"Support weapon" = "critseeker" = "heat based weapon" = useless.

Well it could mean somethign else in the context of MWO - and should - but what is that?

As a main weapon on some configs i assume this means they were 'support' mechs, ones that sat behind the main line - but how is that different to a PPC boating mech or Guass etc?

The very soul and function of a weapon needs to be clearly defined and MWO is very bad at this.

There needs to be a reason you take an LRM boat and indirect fire was that drawcard for a while but that is nerfed to hell.

Define the role and scope of your weapons PGI - it makes it much easier to implement when you have a clear idea on the way they are best used ... and also how they interact with all other peices of equipment in the game, and how they intereact with your own mech and its loadout or a team loadout.

There is much to think of that goes well beyond the bounds of what you are tweaking.

What is an LRM for PGI?

Why can i not take a single LRM10 on a mech and have it be useful?
Why do i have to boat the F out of them to make an impact?

So many questions and PGI fluffs around with explosion radius ...

Sephlock, on 26 May 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

How about instead of nerfing things left and right, we keep things powerful and just stop making gigantic, open maps that are basically shooting galleries.

Canyon is a good compromise but Alpine and to a lesser extent Tourmaline have traumatized me...

Variety is good - we need close and long range maps - they just need to have an even distribution of these maps ....

[Sephlock]

http://mwomercs.com/...ont-fix-things/

[I am]

If I take an LRM 70 loadout, I am going to get 400+ damage, and 3-4 kills, pretty consistently. That's the problem with LRMs. I hate using LRMs, but they are so effective, I end up taking them half the time anyways. Right now, they're too good. Too easy. Nerf the easy win button.

[Rhent]

Asmudius Heng, on 26 May 2013 - 10:31 PM, said:

Also - what does 'Support' weapon even mean?

This again comes down to a lack of vision about how LRMs are suppose to be used.

The role and concept of a weapon needs to come before the mechanics.

Support weapon is what people who want this to be Brawl Warrior Online call LRM's. They don't want to have to take cover and they want to ignore LRM's. IOW's, if you got no skill, you call weapons "support" rather than get all weapons in a working order.

I'm bored off my *** running a 3 PPC 1 Gauss Stalker and I consistently do 500-700 with it. I can't run LRM's because they simply don't hit and when they do, they do so little damage, that if I do run LRM's I am screwing everyone who dropped with me. The recent nerf to SRM's to the point where they spread farther than Paris Hilton's knees has made running SRM's a suicide mission.

Edited by Rhent, 27 May 2013 - 12:13 AM.