103 replies to this topic

[Reith Dynamis]

and a second lrms mech at base all targeting one mech. It took 390 of my LRM to moderately damage a Muromets CTF-IM Cataphract. It still was not killed until a third mech stepped in.

Artemis? check.
Line of sight? check.
Target in the open like a ding bat? check.
Did lrm volley land? check.
Did the target lack AMS? check.

This is absolutely ridiculous. The stars couldn't have lined up more perfectly, yet a trebuchet with 2 Artemis 15's won't ever do anything viable if lrms remain the way they are.


05/27/2013 at 2:30PM, just wanted to up date. I had Tag on it for nearly this whole engagement when i lost line of slightly at the end for maybe 5 seconds, when the third mech came in.

Edited by Reith Dynamis, 27 May 2013 - 11:31 AM.

[scJazz]

Reith Dynamis, on 26 May 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

and a second lrms mech at base all tagreting one mech. It took 390 of my LRM to moderately damage a Muromets CTF-IM Cataphract. It still was not killed until a third mech stepped in.

Artemis? check.
Line of sight? check.
Target in the open like a ding bat? check.
Did lrm volley land? check.
Did the target lack AMS? check.

This is absolutely ridiculous.

Dunno what is more astonishing... that it took that many LRMS or that the target stood still for long enough to fire that many?

[Reith Dynamis]

scJazz, on 26 May 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

Dunno what is more astonishing... that it took that many LRMS or that the target stood still for long enough to fire that many?

He was engaging the lrm mech from the city air base while i was on top of the fortress from the south. we had him at a crossfire.

Edited by Reith Dynamis, 26 May 2013 - 11:22 AM.

[80Bit]

Yup, I just posted about my 2xLRM15 Treb having the same issues: LRMs: we're not there yet.

LRMs are almost as bad as they pre-patch. I would say they are about, oh, .2 better =/

[Reith Dynamis]

This is most aggravating.

[Kellea]

and PGI needed more than a month to get here...

[Zerberus]

Is it possible that this is specifically an LRM 15 issue? I use dual ALRM 20s when I use LRMs and can`t complain so far....

Can`t really imagine how that could be the case unless there were multiple AMS cutting them down, but I heard the same thing 2-3 times in TS today, specifically about LRM15 s. Seems wierd ....

[Shrouder]

Zerberus, on 26 May 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

Is it possible that this is specifically an LRM 15 issue? I use dual ALRM 20s when I use LRMs and can`t complain so far....

Can`t really imagine how that could be the case unless there were multiple AMS cutting them down, but I heard the same thing 2-3 times in TS today, specifically about LRM15 s. Seems wierd ....

I upgraded my C1 from 2xALRM15 to 2xALRM20 (going down to XL280/3xML/Tag from a XL300/1xLL/2xML/Tag before) and put a bit more ammo in it. I'm averaging around 300-400 DMG in a normal match with reasonable spotters and locks, around 500 in a good match when I empty all the ammo. I had the same Issue with 30 Missiles fired, it just didn't feel as nearly as damaging as the 40 Missiles now (though fired in 2 volleys á 30+10). I used to have 200-300 DMG pre-21st-patch with ALRM15 (more precisely: I did not play the C1 any more).

I cannot image that these 2xALRM5 builds used on cents from time to time do any damage at all. It just scratches the enemy armor. I would at least pack 20 missiles in ANY mech with 50 tons or more, otherwise it's just wasted space on the mech IMO. But it can depend on the playstyle, e.g. a Trebuchet might have lesser LRM-ammo than a heavy of an assault, but it can move faster and thus get and hold locks better.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

It's not a LRM 15 issue.

I went full extreme (or well, as extreme as I can not having stalkers) and made a Highlander with 3 ALRM 20's.

There was a match where we spawned on the upper River City base.

I plodded my slow self to the edge, and just waited. Low and behold the enemy team decided to basically engage at theta.

That meant 5-6 mechs all running around in the open in front of me.

I have Advanced Target Decay, Artemis, TAG, BAP & like 8 tons of ammo. So I could unleash hell.

Unfortunately that is now how the current LRM's work.

It was just sad.

On top of that i'm 75-80% sure there is some kind of bug with them as well. Because I am seeing shots miss. Literally they arch towards a target as they move, and they'll drop straight down to the side of where the mech was standing.

Also still seeing the flight literally jerk to the left or right when firing. Instead of a smooth change in angle like it used to do before the patch.

It's a mess. LRM's are terribad.

[Profiteer]

I changed my Stalker-5m to an LRM boat and played 40 odd games with it yesterday just to see what they are like now.

Started with 5 x 15 lrms, but switched to 2 x 15 and 2 x 20's so I could fit 4 mls for defense (was pugging and getting flanked by lights a bit).

I think my best game was 3 kills and high 500's damage, averaged mid 300's 1-2 kills.


One problem I noticed was with the current meta; people mostly jump snipe and play peek-a-boo from long range. This means it's difficult to get a good lock and many volleys miss their mark. I think 4-manning with lrms and having a good light with tag would help a lot.

I really wouldn't want the damage increased much if any, it's such a low skill tactic. It was probably the most boring day I've spent playing MWO. In fact the only real fun was getting into 1 on 1 brawls with my little mls and winning a few battles - good for a laugh.

Oh and lastly - I've never had so many people just randomly abuse me while playing. There is so much hate out there for lrms it's amazing. If the stories are to be believed, my ***** must be made entirely of cheese

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I think you are completely wrong about LRM's being low skill.

LRM's are only low skill if your opponent is terrible or lazy.

So yes, if your opponent just hangs out in the open, you can stand at 800-1000m and just kill people.

Here is the problem, when you are up against a great player, and a very coordinated team, guess how LRM's are?

Terrible. And then they become the hardest weapon to play well with and require the most skill and coordination.

On top of that, they are the only weapon that has two pieces of equipment dedicated to stopping them (AMS and ECM). Due to the nerf I've noticed everyone has ripped out AMS again. They are also the only weapon that has a warning that gives your opponent time to react.

To add to that further, they are the only weapon that requires an upgrade (Artemis), an energy weapon slot (TAG) and an item so a mech with ECM can't just stand next to you to shut you down (BAP).

You also have to guide them and hold lock while the missiles are in flight, which leaves you open to return fire, unlike a poptart who fires and drops down.

They also have the most rigid minimum (180) and once beyond 1000m are completely useless (unlike PPC's and ER PPC's).

Indirect firing is sketchy at best unless you have a dedicated spotter, and that means it takes 2 people for LRM's to function indirectly, and the spotter exposes himself by doing the spotting.

AND on top of ALL of that. They are currently bugged and receiving the Artemis bonus without LOS. Which means they will be even worse once that is fixed.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 26 May 2013 - 01:51 PM.

[oldradagast]

I've never understood the "low skill" charge against LRM's. You need to get a lock and maintain it, and not be neutered by ECM, and not have the bad guys under the minimum range... and that's already more to keep track of then "point and kill" as seen to varying levels for most other weapons.

Perhaps LRM's are more annoying than most weapons - you may not see your attack when you die - and they've certainly been temporarily broken more than most weapons, but that hardly makes them "no skill."

[Nicholas Carlyle]

oldradagast, on 26 May 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

I've never understood the "low skill" charge against LRM's. You need to get a lock and maintain it, and not be neutered by ECM, and not have the bad guys under the minimum range... and that's already more to keep track of then "point and kill" as seen to varying levels for most other weapons.

Perhaps LRM's are more annoying than most weapons - you may not see your attack when you die - and they've certainly been temporarily broken more than most weapons, but that hardly makes them "no skill."

I've noticed the people who claim LRM's have no skill fall into 3 groups

1] Lazy, these people just do not like having to avoid them.

2] Takes out a mech in LRM's for 2 or 3 matches, lucks into some PUGs who are lazy, and claims they are easy to use!

3] This person only uses LRM's when they are bugged super weapons (So about every other time they are "fixed") and use that as the basis for all of their arguments.

[Tarrasque]

I'm just going to drop this in here and run away...


LRMs, AFAIK are a support weapon. I know that all the FPSers don't like to hear that, as it conjures thoughts of MGs and flamers, but I really think PGI is trying to skew them to require a modicum of teamwork to get them to their full potential.

Unfortunately, there seem to be 2 results in PUGs: massive boating, or dropping them entirely.

I run 2x ALRM10 on my founders Cat, and understandably see less-than-desired effects from them, but I haven't been particularly stunned by their performance.

LRM mechs aren't supposed to compete with the AC/PPC wielders of the world. They're supposed to take the armor off enemy mechs so that the frontliners have internals to shoot at.


Maybe I'm just stating the obvious, and bear in mind that I do believe LRMs aren't quite there yet, but I see a lot of people complaining about LRMs because they're not getting kills/doing massive damage, which I think is the wrong perspective to take on the issue.

[LordBraxton]

you think LRMs suck?

try SRMs

[Nicholas Carlyle]

LordBraxton, on 26 May 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

you think LRMs suck?

try SRMs

Yeah, but LRM's just received their "fix" pass.

Which based on PGI's "We will touch them again when they come up in the cycle" style of balancing means we now have another 2 months of crap.

I'm hoping they get SRM's right in the next patch when they are due for their fix.

And I'm not buying this "Support weapon that strips armor". Guess what? It doesn't even do that. And if it did, why would you take it when you can strip armor and pinpoint damage with a PPC?

And if PGI really wanted LRM's to be support, why not make them do 3-4 damage to armor and .5 damage to internals?

I actually think I'd be ok with that. Strips armor like crazy, but can't finish. Which would lead to less boating and using them as part of a balanced loadout.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 26 May 2013 - 04:03 PM.

[JSparrowist]

LRM should not have amazing damage or be a first pick weapon system. They should be for annoying the enemy, slightly softening them up while making them either take cover or have to advance from another route. LRM IMHO should NEVER be a first choice weapon system for any mech.

Flame away LRMers.. Have fun!

[Nicholas Carlyle]

JSparrowist, on 26 May 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

LRM should not have amazing damage or be a first pick weapon system. They should be for annoying the enemy, slightly softening them up while making them either take cover or have to advance from another route. LRM IMHO should NEVER be a first choice weapon system for any mech.

Flame away LRMers.. Have fun!

Then WHY take them? Do you know what makes people take cover or have to advance to another route? Taking damage. If LRM's don't do enough damage to be a "first pick" weapon. Then why would they care?

On top of that, if you were going to use a weapon to do that, wouldn't it be better to use ER PPC's which shoot 1400m, and WILL do damage since they would be "first pick" weapons as you say.

If your response is "Well you can use indirect fire", well here are two tips. One to really use indirect fire well you need a spotter. So now not only are you using your "second pick" LRM's, you need a second mech to use them properly

Tip number two is, GOOD PLAYERS DON'T GET HIT BY INDIRECT FIRE UNLESS THEY ARE OTHERWISE OCCUPIED. And even then it is very iffy.

So your idea to use LRM's BEFORE the battle engages makes 0 sense. And could be done better by any other long range weapon in your scenario.

Did you bother to think through your idea? I don't care whether you like LRM's, but if you are going to interject a comment at least have it make sense.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 26 May 2013 - 04:16 PM.

[Reith Dynamis]

JSparrowist, on 26 May 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

LRM should not have amazing damage or be a first pick weapon system. They should be for annoying the enemy, slightly softening them up while making them either take cover or have to advance from another route. LRM IMHO should NEVER be a first choice weapon system for any mech.

Flame away LRMers.. Have fun!

Except there is so many instances where mech profiles were listed as having lrms as their primary weapon and they were not entirely support mechs. But lets just forget that cause its an inconvenience for lrm haters. Hell, Clan ideology had removed the minimum range as to not gimp it any further. A Mad Dog was a support mech? pfft.. Archer?

The only mech that really relied much on eachother are trebuchet and Centurions. But that was to make so they act in tandem. Not people lrms were support weapons. You seem to forget that we have double armor value and each missle would 1 damage on hit. Those hits were not wholey guarantied granted but the double armor in this game makes up for that by far!!

How are we suppose to offer support in the first place if we're running out of ammo before we can enage a 3rd or 4th target? upping ammo per ton wouldn't go terrible far.

If lrms were meant for support they would mainly be on vehicle not on battlemechs.

Edited by Reith Dynamis, 27 May 2013 - 06:28 AM.

[IceSerpent]

JSparrowist, on 26 May 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

LRM should not have amazing damage or be a first pick weapon system. They should be for annoying the enemy, slightly softening them up while making them either take cover or have to advance from another route. LRM IMHO should NEVER be a first choice weapon system for any mech.

Flame away LRMers.. Have fun!

Two questions:

1. Why do you want LRMs (or any other weapon for that matter) to not be a first pick weapon system?

2. If they only annoy and "slightly soften" the enemy, why would that enemy feel compelled to "either take cover or have to advance from another route"?

Just curious