103 replies to this topic

[Reith Dynamis]

I am, on 28 May 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

Just scored over 500 damage with a LRM Highlander. 55LRMs = easy kills all day long. You have to bring your own tag though.

With a highlander? thats not a stretch. Did you take a pic or not? and how many lrms did it take?


But you realize we're talking about lrm mechs that are not quite the assault range. We already know assaults can do damage just fine by boating, We're talking about lrms in general and not stacked more then 2 launchers by the 15 count really. your looking for another thread.

Edited by Reith Dynamis, 28 May 2013 - 08:43 AM.

[SpiralRazor]

Profiteer, on 26 May 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

I changed my Stalker-5m to an LRM boat and played 40 odd games with it yesterday just to see what they are like now.

Started with 5 x 15 lrms, but switched to 2 x 15 and 2 x 20's so I could fit 4 mls for defense (was pugging and getting flanked by lights a bit).

I think my best game was 3 kills and high 500's damage, averaged mid 300's 1-2 kills.


One problem I noticed was with the current meta; people mostly jump snipe and play peek-a-boo from long range. This means it's difficult to get a good lock and many volleys miss their mark. I think 4-manning with lrms and having a good light with tag would help a lot.

I really wouldn't want the damage increased much if any, it's such a low skill tactic. It was probably the most boring day I've spent playing MWO. In fact the only real fun was getting into 1 on 1 brawls with my little mls and winning a few battles - good for a laugh.

Oh and lastly - I've never had so many people just randomly abuse me while playing. There is so much hate out there for lrms it's amazing. If the stories are to be believed, my ***** must be made entirely of cheese

LRMs are not low skill...you just play in a low elo bracket.

[I am]

Reith Dynamis, on 28 May 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

With a highlander? thats not a stretch. Did you take a pic or not? and how many lrms did it take?


But you realize we're talking about lrm mechs that are not quite the assault range. We already know assaults can do damage just fine by boating, We're talking about lrms in general and not stacked more then 2 launchers by the 15 count really. your looking for another thread.

So wait, you want to be able to boat LRMs in something smaller than an assault, and consistently rack up 500+ damage?

[Karr285]

PGi just needs to wake up and realize that Splash damage is terrible, it needs to go. Once gone they need to make sure the Spread of Missiles, LRM and SRM are working correctly, IE at least 80% hit most of the time and all over the mech not CT, once this is done they can up the damage to either double TT damage values (because of Double armour and since the weapons CANT converge they need the double damage to balance them) or bring them close ie SRM = between 3.5-4 and LRMs between 1.5 and 2.

[Appogee]

Just got killed by a Camperpult in River City who never moved more than 10 metres from the base where he spawned. He sat on a roof and sent wave after wave of LRMs at whatever he or his team locked onto.

I realise it was my fault I got killed, because I broke cover. But I had spent most of the match behind a building taking a shot with my gauss and then getting back into cover as the usual two waves of LRM20s came my way. Meanwhile the rest of my team was getting themselves killed. I figured if I didn't go try and take him out I'd eventually just get hammered anyway. So I tried get across the river to him.

Anyway, seems to me like Caterpults are working just fine. I guess it's up to us as players whether we actually enjoy playing a game where you're forced to lurk behind cover because someone with an indirect fire weapon can launch two waves of 35 points of damage at your from afar .

Personally I'm finding it a bit dull and not as engaging as when there was more brawling going on. But that's just me.

[jeffsw6]

ChallengerCC, on 27 May 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

I played a round today with my HBK-4J (test mech) with:

2 - LRM 15 (720 missels)
3 -TAG
3 - smal lasers

Why did you install 3 TAGs?

Karr285, on 29 May 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

PGi just needs to wake up and realize that Splash damage is terrible, it needs to go.

Splash damage might not be a terrible idea, but they can't seem to get their implementation right. They don't seem to be trying to just .. reduce its radius or tone down the amount of splash damage, either, which is pretty surprising as tuning attempts would seem to be an obvious step.

So .. who knows. If they never get splash right, I don't think it matters, as long as they don't make it over-powered.

[SkyCake]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 26 May 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

I think you are completely wrong about LRM's being low skill.

LRM's are only low skill if your opponent is terrible or lazy.

So yes, if your opponent just hangs out in the open, you can stand at 800-1000m and just kill people.

Here is the problem, when you are up against a great player, and a very coordinated team, guess how LRM's are?

Terrible. And then they become the hardest weapon to play well with and require the most skill and coordination.

On top of that, they are the only weapon that has two pieces of equipment dedicated to stopping them (AMS and ECM). Due to the nerf I've noticed everyone has ripped out AMS again. They are also the only weapon that has a warning that gives your opponent time to react.

To add to that further, they are the only weapon that requires an upgrade (Artemis), an energy weapon slot (TAG) and an item so a mech with ECM can't just stand next to you to shut you down (BAP).

You also have to guide them and hold lock while the missiles are in flight, which leaves you open to return fire, unlike a poptart who fires and drops down.

They also have the most rigid minimum (180) and once beyond 1000m are completely useless (unlike PPC's and ER PPC's).

Indirect firing is sketchy at best unless you have a dedicated spotter, and that means it takes 2 people for LRM's to function indirectly, and the spotter exposes himself by doing the spotting.

AND on top of ALL of that. They are currently bugged and receiving the Artemis bonus without LOS. Which means they will be even worse once that is fixed.

An absolute sobering post... also don't forget, it's the only weapon system still without host state rewind which to me says, wtf are you even doing tiring to balance weapon damage pgi until this is in... ppc's are easy mode

[Angel of Annihilation]

oldradagast, on 26 May 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

I've never understood the "low skill" charge against LRM's. You need to get a lock and maintain it, and not be neutered by ECM, and not have the bad guys under the minimum range... and that's already more to keep track of then "point and kill" as seen to varying levels for most other weapons.

Perhaps LRM's are more annoying than most weapons - you may not see your attack when you die - and they've certainly been temporarily broken more than most weapons, but that hardly makes them "no skill."

What skill is involved, being able to keep your crosshairs generally in the direction of the target? I mean as long as you do so and as long as the target isn't behind cover (terrain or electronic) you don't have to do much at all.

Also I don't see an issue, broken or not I have never really had an issue scoring LRM kills and I usually only run a single LRM15. They aren't suppose to be precision weapons, they are scatter weapons used to wear down an enemy at long range. The also can target and hit enemies behind cover.

I think the issue with LRMs is not that they have issues, but rather people just don't understand they aren't suppose to be your go to weapon for a kill simply because they scatter hit all over the target thus creating vulnerabiles for follow up weapons. Treat them like this and they rock.

[jeffsw6]

SkyCake, on 29 May 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

An absolute sobering post... also don't forget, it's the only weapon system still without host state rewind which to me says, wtf are you even doing tiring to balance weapon damage pgi until this is in... ppc's are easy mode

I think they believed buffing LRMs would effect a nerf to snipers. My further belief is they didn't really understand that over-powered LRMs are just as bad, if not worse, than snipers. The basic issue is brawling is inferior, and you really can't fix that problem by trying to whack one extreme-range mole by introducing ANOTHER extreme-range mole. You need a hammer. That hammer is called: The Nerf Hammer.

Sadly, The Nerf Hammer was mis-used and struck SRMs instead of PPCs and Gauss Rifles.

Oh, and you better believe, if they deleted LRMs, PPCs, ERPPCs, Gauss Rifles, and AC/2s from the game, there would still be stand-off players who just don't like to engage in close-range combat. It isn't the style of play that some people enjoy. Know what would be the next stand-off weapon of choice? Large Laser boating. We've all got blown up by a 4 - 6 LL Stalker from surprising range once in a while. They are deadly when used effectively; but not so bad (IMO) as PPC/Gauss.

[ChallengerCC]

jeffsw6, on 29 May 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

Why did you install 3 TAGs?

Because of run and shoot tactic. You can turn hunchback with arms total to back tag him an then you can fire LRM while you are runing away.

3-Tag:

2 each arm for backwards
1 in head for obstacles

Like i sad was a test. But i hit nearly every rocket but in the end i had 108 and 180 or so dmg from 700 missels. Thats omg i do more with MG. I had free sight and i taged.
LRM 5 up to 10 are totaly useless even if you have 2 of them. Makes no damage at all and when you hit then around the hole mech.

But ppc and gaus sniper are overpowerd like in every MW before. I dont know why but LRMs are back in useless. I was surpised that MWO was the first where LRM where good. But know omg back in sniper action.

SniperWarrior Online

Edited by ChallengerCC, 29 May 2013 - 04:47 PM.

[Reith Dynamis]

I am, on 29 May 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

So wait, you want to be able to boat LRMs in something smaller than an assault, and consistently rack up 500+ damage?

I'm not sure what gave you that Idea. I said doing that much damage in a highlander is understandable.
My argument is that lrms need to be viable, not guided paint balls. 390 missles should wreak havoc on any mech. I did not say medium mechs should consistently make over 500 damage, that should be due to the skill of the pilot.

You totally took that out of context.

Edited by Reith Dynamis, 29 May 2013 - 08:26 PM.

[p00k]

lrms are considered no-skill because it is the target's incompetence, not the user's competence, that determines their efficacy

[Reith Dynamis]

p00k, on 29 May 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

lrms are considered no-skill because it is the target's incompetence, not the user's competence, that determines their efficacy

You would think people would have wizened up after the experience but they would rather call it a noob weapon cause they have an inability to learn from their mistakes.

Edited by Reith Dynamis, 29 May 2013 - 08:52 PM.

[Galenit]

Klaus, on 27 May 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

LRMs are for people who can't aim anyway!

And why do i have more hit% with 2xerppc on a >120kph cicada then with my 2xalrm15+tag+modules?

p00k, on 29 May 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

lrms are considered no-skill because it is the target's incompetence, not the user's competence, that determines their efficacy

That says all about it ....

Edited by Galenit, 01 June 2013 - 02:09 AM.

[Pando]

scJazz, on 26 May 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

Dunno what is more astonishing... that it took that many LRMS or that the target stood still for long enough to fire that many?

This is common. Then, those players that stood out in the open getting rained on by 4+ LRM boats cry LRM's are the problem to this I say welcome MechWarrior.

[CarpetShark]

LRMs 'suck so badly' right now, and yet my Jenner can still be completely obliterated in two volleys while I'm in what used to be cover on River City. Not good enough, right? It should be only one volley, right?

Heck, why not skip straight on through the intermediate steps! Why not make it *really* simple and have your target simply explode when you establish lock?

There's really no way else to put this: Nothing is ever going to satisfy you sad little people. Please go play some other game.

[Naja]

CarpetShark, on 01 June 2013 - 03:20 AM, said:

LRMs 'suck so badly' right now, and yet my Jenner can still be completely obliterated in two volleys while I'm in what used to be cover on River City. Not good enough, right? It should be only one volley, right?

Heck, why not skip straight on through the intermediate steps! Why not make it *really* simple and have your target simply explode when you establish lock?

There's really no way else to put this: Nothing is ever going to satisfy you sad little people. Please go play some other game.

Getting hit by LRM's in a Jenner really says more about your piloting skills than anything...

Sad little people eh? Because they don't share your opinion?

Personally I started playing a Blackjack a bit lately, and found the AC/20 and 2ML build to be pretty damn effective. Putting out about the same amount of damage (and sometimes more depending on lifespan, im not so great at mediums) as my 20 ton heavier Catapult with 2xALRM15 with TAG and modules. That just seems... a little off to me

[Satan n stuff]

I'm gonna say something crazy here, but if PGI makes the spread of LRMs bigger for larger numbers of missiles, they can increase LRM damage because then if you boat LRMs most missiles won't even hit the target.
Specifically, determine an average surface area that each missile should cover, then calculate the radius of a flight of missiles based on the number of missiles the launcher will fire, the missile count for all launchers that are on cooldown and the surface area number. After doing this add the missile count to the total missile count, and when the cooldown of a launcher ends subtract the missile count for the launcher from the total missile count.
Result: No matter how you fire your missiles, the more missiles you're firing per second the bigger the spread gets. NARC, TAG and Artemis would still reduce the missile spread of course.

As for splash damage, the simplest way to solve that would be to deal a fixed amount of damage spread between all sections in splash range based on proximity.
That would be something along the lines of: Max splash range - distance to affected hit location = proximity variable. Proximity variable / total of all proximity variables for this missile = Damage modifier. damage modifier * total splash damage = damage for affected hit location.
You could use a single point for each location for measuring the distance to the missile impact to make the system more efficient, and you could easily disable rear torso hits for a front torso impact and disable front torso hits for tear torso impacts, as well as moving the points around on a mech to change the distribution of splash damage.
Result: all missile hits deal the same amount of damage under normal circumstances.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 01 June 2013 - 04:11 AM.

[DeadlyNerd]

I pretty much said it 100 times before.

The hard point system is wrong, bad, sucks balls, must be changed.

I myself am doing fine with LRMs, just because I have a total of 60 pods on my awesome. I shouldn't be able to do that.
This is why every buff makes ANY weapon drastically overpowered when boated and every nerf makes ANY weapon drastically underpowered when used in reasonable quantities.

People disagreed, flamed, trolled and were acting as complete ignorant morons unaware of the actual problem.
There you go now, you wanted your "nerf", you got it. Again, those that use the weapon properly got smacked in the face while boats pretty much have it the same.

CarpetShark, on 01 June 2013 - 03:20 AM, said:

LRMs 'suck so badly' right now, and yet my Jenner can still be completely obliterated in two volleys while I'm in what used to be cover on River City. Not good enough, right? It should be only one volley, right?

Heck, why not skip straight on through the intermediate steps! Why not make it *really* simple and have your target simply explode when you establish lock?

There's really no way else to put this: Nothing is ever going to satisfy you sad little people. Please go play some other game.

You got your *** handed to you because that stalker was using 60 of them, not 20 like he is supposed to.
Hidden message : "He was boating them".

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 01 June 2013 - 04:20 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

p00k, on 29 May 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

lrms are considered no-skill because it is the target's incompetence, not the user's competence, that determines their efficacy

See you take that wrong.

The thing is, to effectively use LRM's, you need to not only be good with them yourself....you need to use strategy to beat your opponent as well.

It's why I always thought my Centurion was better with LRM's than an assault. I used my speed to move into positions and make use of my LRM's properly.

It wasn't about standing in one place. I moved a ton, strafing while holding a TAG lasers to put my missiles into an ECM mech.

That's still harder than ANY other weapon. I don't see how anyone can say that shooting a PPC is harder than moving 98kph, holding a laser on a target for 3-4 seconds, while making sure neither you nor your target break LOS.

The problem is, there gets to be a point where players are so good and LRM's are such a pain in the *** to use PLUS have so many counters (ECM/AMS/Missile Warning/LOS Breaks/Cover), that you might as well stop bringing them.

No other weapon is like that.