237 replies to this topic

[Skydrive]

Hey guys, think we could move this stuff to another thread? I don't like the idea of a mech sporting those numbers that much but still, shouldn't THIS thread be more on the mech's possible weapons and what people will put on it???

[almightyfargoth]

Skydrive, on 30 May 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

Hey guys, think we could move this stuff to another thread? I don't like the idea of a mech sporting those numbers that much but still, shouldn't THIS thread be more on the mech's possible weapons and what people will put on it???

Yes, it should. lol

[General Taskeen]

Back on topic.

Pretty cool that's its basically an early JagerMech-III.

My JM-S-III Prototype build - JM6-S

[Livewyr]

I will be liberating its leaf torsos, same as any other Papermech.

[White Bear 84]

almightyfargoth, on 30 May 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

You really have to be kidding me if you're actually attempting to school me on the fact 666 is indicative of Satanic worshippers

Like, really? You got "this guy clearly has no understanding of what 666 represents!" this entire time? lol

Also, how would you get Indian origins for the swastika being the end all thing from the logic I've used so far? I would straight up connect that with Nazis, every single time. There is no "by my logic" in this, just sane logic, where things are linked up to what everyone knows them as and there isn't any irrelevancy coming out of left field. Frankly, thank Hitler for that one, he made it more famous than ever possible.

Like, you've done the whole irrelevancy spiel twice now. Once when you started saying inane things like Muslims being offended by a Jewish oriented mech (BECAUSE THAT'S SO LIKELY TO HAPPEN COMPARED TO THE FIREBRAND SITUATION. MECH WALKING AROUND WITH STARS OF DAVID AND DREIDELS ON THE DASH.), and now with the swastika like it has any bearing on the topic at hand. Stay focused

Additional also, the entire reason I brought up "good" symbols for Christianity was because you yourself brought up (and then never ever responded to my response to it) the whole thing about Christian symbols on a mech. For example, a cross, Jesus fish, trinity symbol, etc. Those are inherently good symbols, as opposed to the 666 which is....don't even need to go on if you're lost here. This is also an example of a flawed statement you made, stating that I'm only talking about symbols of evil here when I totally had an entire statement devoted to asking you to clarify about good symbols (supposedly? who's to know, you won't say anything on it and without clarification I must instantly just misunderstand!) and how they affect Atheists. You chose to just say nothing to it, so it was left unanswered.

I get it, you're trying to be a know it all about all this....but you're not actually driving home any real point, and supporting not offending people for reasons that have been invalidated by my statements and others.

So basically, this just leaves me with copious amounts of wtf as far as whether you're grasping what I've been saying here since it's been obvious from the beginning I have a perfect understanding of the difference between good and evil symbols in Christianity.

and yeah, there we go. 666 is literally in the Bible in it's later years, still going strong after Nero, and then really got amped up in the last couple hundred years.

Now that the history lesson is over, who gives a crap? Oh, right, church ladies and people who tiptoe in life lol

Ok, lets clear this up. Some basic history

1. The swastika - Earliest origins are from the Indus Valley Civilisation; Not to be confused with 'India'. The IVC inhabitited the region now is occupied by both Pakistan and India. The swastika was later adopted by bhuddist nations as a symbol of their religion and can actually be commonly seen around Japan on bhuddist shrines. The meaning of swastika is "to be good". The symbol was only adopt by the ****'s in 1920 and the orientation changed (rotated 45 degrees). So if they put a **** swastika on a mech.. ..you would know the difference! Unfortunately due to the use of the 'modified' swastika by the ****'s, it now has an overal negative image... ...which is dissapointing for a symbol given the symbols actual meaning...
2. 666 - The number of the beast is described in Revelation 13:15–18, and the actual number is only mentioned once, in verse 18. [color=#ff0000]17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. [color=#ff0000]18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.[/color][/color] Note - no mention of the devil etc etc etc. The meaning of the number is debated but some interpret it to refer to the Antichrist. In Judaism, the number is interpreted to be a holy and mystical number and may represent the physical world Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Beast that the number is for is a government. In Western societies, the number is often perceived as the Devil's number; hence its negative perception within Christianic circles and subsequent association with the devil.


At the end of the day, they are both symbolic of one thing or another to different people. Words, symbols and number can be twisted and interpreted as people like. I dont have an issue. I dont actually interpret the number as anything. It is just a number.

[Because Hunchback]

Mmmm...I'm still waiting for my Hunchy Hero. Soon.

[Xandergod]

Stone Profit, on 30 May 2013 - 05:33 PM, said:

666 is actually a concept created by christianity and was merely adopted by satanism, which occured two thousand years later (roughly). You pick and choose your "logic" when in reality you just plug your ears and go "lalalalala" and act like youre right, which youre not. Par for the course of religious people who demand things be changed to the way they think they should be in A FREE SOCIETY.
TL:DR
Dont like it, dont play it.

I never even suggested it should be taken out of the game. I also stated that 666 started out as a biblical reference that was picked up by others outside of that religion. I'm not sure if you read anything I wrote at all.

almightyfargoth, on 30 May 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

You really have to be kidding me if you're actually attempting to school me on the fact 666 is indicative of Satanic worshippers

Like, really? You got "this guy clearly has no understanding of what 666 represents!" this entire time? lol

Also, how would you get Indian origins for the swastika being the end all thing from the logic I've used so far? I would straight up connect that with Nazis, every single time. There is no "by my logic" in this, just sane logic, where things are linked up to what everyone knows them as and there isn't any irrelevancy coming out of left field. Frankly, thank Hitler for that one, he made it more famous than ever possible.

Like, you've done the whole irrelevancy spiel twice now. Once when you started saying inane things like Muslims being offended by a Jewish oriented mech (BECAUSE THAT'S SO LIKELY TO HAPPEN COMPARED TO THE FIREBRAND SITUATION. MECH WALKING AROUND WITH STARS OF DAVID AND DREIDELS ON THE DASH.), and now with the swastika like it has any bearing on the topic at hand. Stay focused

Additional also, the entire reason I brought up "good" symbols for Christianity was because you yourself brought up (and then never ever responded to my response to it) the whole thing about Christian symbols on a mech. For example, a cross, Jesus fish, trinity symbol, etc. Those are inherently good symbols, as opposed to the 666 which is....don't even need to go on if you're lost here. This is also an example of a flawed statement you made, stating that I'm only talking about symbols of evil here when I totally had an entire statement devoted to asking you to clarify about good symbols (supposedly? who's to know, you won't say anything on it and without clarification I must instantly just misunderstand!) and how they affect Atheists. You chose to just say nothing to it, so it was left unanswered.

I get it, you're trying to be a know it all about all this....but you're not actually driving home any real point, and supporting not offending people for reasons that have been invalidated by my statements and others.

So basically, this just leaves me with copious amounts of wtf as far as whether you're grasping what I've been saying here since it's been obvious from the beginning I have a perfect understanding of the difference between good and evil symbols in Christianity.





and yeah, there we go. 666 is literally in the Bible in it's later years, still going strong after Nero, and then really got amped up in the last couple hundred years.

Now that the history lesson is over, who gives a crap? Oh, right, church ladies and people who tiptoe in life lol

1. I never suggested that you didn't know the origins of the 666 symbol. I was trying to make a distinction between use and association.

2. I brought up the swastika because if that was plastered on the front of the mech, you wouldn't be saying that it is a Hindu symbol as you are calling 666 a christian symbol. We all link swastikas with Nazism, just as I assumed (maybe wrongly, i suppose) we all linked 666 with satanism. I'm sorry if you don't like my use of analogy. I thought it fit the situation pretty closely.

3. When I said I could understand if an atheist would be offended by a mech with Christian symbols on it. That's all the statement meant. I guess the me using Christian symbols as an example of something an atheist might not want plastered across the front of their mech was a bad choice. I know atheists who blame religion for most of the worlds problems. They just might have an issue with that crusader mech. "Good" symbols as you call them, are only good to the people who see them that way. As for why a "good" christian symbol would be on a mech. idk. My statement was that its existence could easily be offensive.

4. I'm not trying to be a "know it all" My stance has always been and is simply that symbols can be offensive for different reasons, and I understand when people get offended by them.

[subgenius]

Can we get a mod in here?

[Chavette]

Skydrive, on 30 May 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

Hey guys, think we could move this stuff to another thread? I don't like the idea of a mech sporting those numbers that much but still, shouldn't THIS thread be more on the mech's possible weapons and what people will put on it???

I find it more interesting and learnt more from it than any other thread on this forum.

[aseth]

If someone doesn't like it, paint the thing a solid color and the symbols won't be visible.

[MustrumRidcully]

Trauglodyte, on 29 May 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

I can build you a Warhammer on a Hunchy chassis, if you're interested cause we ALL know that Warhammer >>> Marauder

You take that back.

[MustrumRidcully]

LexLuther, on 30 May 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

The conversation is about religious symbols. 666 specifically is on the new Jagermech.

The true meaning of 666.


It's not a religious number. It's a political number, standing for a particularly disliked political figure, Neron Cesar.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 31 May 2013 - 05:53 AM.

[almightyfargoth]

Because Hunchback, on 30 May 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

Mmmm...I'm still waiting for my Hunchy Hero. Soon.

Yes! So am I!

LexLuther, on 30 May 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

4. I'm not trying to be a "know it all" My stance has always[size=4] been and is simply that symbols can be offensive for different reasons, and I understand when people get offended by them.

You know, you really are right. You're not being a know it all, when compared to.... ->

White Bear 84, on 30 May 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

Ok, lets clear this up. Some basic history

1. The swastika - Earliest origins are from the Indus Valley Civilisation; Not to be confused with 'India'. The IVC inhabitited the region now is occupied by both Pakistan and India. The swastika was later adopted by bhuddist nations as a symbol of their religion and can actually be commonly seen around Japan on bhuddist shrines. The meaning of swastika is "to be good". The symbol was only adopt by the ****'s in 1920 and the orientation changed (rotated 45 degrees). So if they put a **** swastika on a mech.. ..you would know the difference! Unfortunately due to the use of the 'modified' swastika by the ****'s, it now has an overal negative image... ...which is dissapointing for a symbol given the symbols actual meaning...
2. 666 - The number of the beast is described in Revelation 13:15–18, and the actual number is only mentioned once, in verse 18. [color=#ff0000]17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. [color=#ff0000]18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.[/color][/color] Note - no mention of the devil etc etc etc. The meaning of the number is debated but some interpret it to refer to the Antichrist. In Judaism, the number is interpreted to be a holy and mystical number and may represent the physical world Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Beast that the number is for is a government. In Western societies, the number is often perceived as the Devil's number; hence its negative perception within Christianic circles and subsequent association with the devil.


At the end of the day, they are both symbolic of one thing or another to different people. Words, symbols and number can be twisted and interpreted as people like. I dont have an issue. I dont actually interpret the number as anything. It is just a number.

1. This guy ^^

(clearing literally nothing up that wasn't already known by at least the two of us, or anything a simple wikipedia sourced search would elicit, or the whole trying to move on from this concept)

MustrumRidcully, on 31 May 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

It's not a religious number. It's a political number, standing for a particularly disliked political figure, Neron Cesar.

2. and this guy ^^

(repeating information already stated 2-3 times, for no other reason but to *not* grasp the concept of moving on from this)


So yeah, you're right. You haven't reached that level of hardcore know it all. Off the hook son! lol

Edited by almightyfargoth, 31 May 2013 - 08:09 AM.

[SMDMadCow]

LexLuther, on 30 May 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

The conversation is about religious symbols. 666 specifically is on the new Jagermech.

And where is this exactly? I dont see it on any of the current pics we have. I see "From Hell", a horned serpent(?), and a hand doing "devil horns".

[almightyfargoth]

The circle thingy above the cockpit

Edited by almightyfargoth, 31 May 2013 - 08:51 AM.

[SMDMadCow]

almightyfargoth, on 31 May 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

The circle thingy above the cockpit

OH.. didnt even notice.

[Khanahar]

Sephlock, on 30 May 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

Nero...

Who was actually a good guy who got slandered like mad

http://www.crystalinks.com/nero.html

Seriously? Nero? I don't even...

On topic:
Yes, the 'mech has diabolic connotations. Nero seemed to early Christians to be a direct messenger from the devil, owing to his harsh persecution of their religion. And in our society the number is linked with the idea of a diabolical agent.

But getting offended shows a lack of imagination. You can say that buying the 'mech makes you an agent of evil, but I don't buy it:

Maybe you just killed the devil and took his f-ing 'mech.

Edited by Khanahar, 31 May 2013 - 09:14 AM.

[Joachim Viltry]

Ok, y'all have hit upon my historical pet peeve... ****** did not simply 'appropriate an Indian symbol and rotate it 45 degrees'.

The swastika was already a common symbol in early 20th century Europe as a sign of good luck. It gained popularity especially after the digs in Troy, but also was associated with various Nordic cultures already. Those Nordic associations, as well as it's commonality in general use, were what lead to it's easy adoption as a party symbol.

Throughout 'the Great War' pilots on both sides utilized it as a good luck charm on aircraft. So much so that model-makers will intentionally 'sanitize' their interpretations of historic pilots aircraft schemes to avoid the **** connotations, despite WWI preceding the ****'s by a fair margin.
In the US, many units and pilots utilized the swastika due to it's native American associations. And similar situation exist for other nations. The commonality of the symbol pre-**** means that you are denigrating the impact of it's use and subsequent shunning.

It would be truer to say that Symbol in common use world wide, that was utilized by cultures on every inhabited continent in the past, was appropriated by the **** party, and then destroyed for all of us. THANKS ******... he also cost us the 'Chaplin' mustache... What a [Richard].

---------

But seriously chill out about the symbols hate, so what if the radar mast bears the mark of the beast? No one has complained that the "From hell" across the front glorifies serial killers like Jack the Ripper... yet.

it's like a metal album cover man, The artist wanted it to look bad-***, and so he made it bad-***.




----------
edited to add... Given how often the swastika discussion comes up on history and WWI aviation forums I just HAD to throw some clarifying data points out. At the time of the First World War, the symbol was commonly European, ****** DID NOT STEAL IT from India, Buddhism, Japanese art, what have you.

I suppose I just have a need to Feed the Flames, as it were.

But, here's how common the Swastika was as a good luck symbol in Europe. Fritz Beckhardt, Jewish ace, had one on his Siemens-Schukert D.III. originally from the cover of Jüdische Flieger im Weltkrieg.


------

And to stay on topic...

I want a FIREBRAND!

Edited by Joachim Viltry, 31 May 2013 - 10:29 AM.

[almightyfargoth]

Maybe we should be more kind to Satan worshippers guys, I mean they're people too.

Edited by almightyfargoth, 31 May 2013 - 10:20 AM.

[Khanahar]

Joachim Viltry, on 31 May 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

Ok, y'all have hit upon my historical pet peeve... ****** did not simply 'appropriate an Indian symbol and rotate it 45 degrees'.

The swastika was already a common symbol in early 20th century Europe as a sign of good luck. It gained popularity especially after the digs in Troy, but also was associated with various Nordic cultures already. Those Nordic associations, as well as it's commonality in general use, were what lead to it's easy adoption as a party symbol.

Throughout 'the Great War' pilots on both sides utilized it as a good luck charm on aircraft. So much so that model-makers will intentionally 'sanitize' their interpretations of historic pilots aircraft schemes to avoid the **** connotations, despite WWI preceding the ****'s by a fair margin.
In the US, many units and pilots utilized the swastika due to it's native American associations. And similar situation exist for other nations. The commonality of the symbol pre-**** means that you are denigrating the impact of it's use and subsequent shunning.

It would be truer to say that Symbol in common use world wide, that was utilized by cultures on every inhabited continent in the past, was appropriated by the **** party, and then destroyed for all of us. THANKS ******... he also cost us the 'Chaplin' mustache... What a [Richard].

The automatic censorship makes this whole thing very funny, despite some good points. As a side-note, however, the National Socialist Workers party was aware of its Indian/Aryan ancestry, and this was part of the calculus of adopting it, even if the symbol came to their attention in other fashions.

Khanahar, on 31 May 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

Maybe you just killed the devil and took his f-ing 'mech.

Though I should add that, as a Davion, this is already how I justify driving a Flame or Illya Muppet.