649 replies to this topic

[Aaron DeChavilier]

CoffiNail, on 09 November 2011 - 10:58 AM, said:

You know what I find funny... is how so many people think FASA did not have the whole Clan invasion lined up early on. Maybe not in 1985, but 1987+ probably, Look at the various articles on Wolf's Dragoons and more so Natasha Keresnky. They dropped a number of hints along the way that something just was not normal about the Wolf's Dragoons... I almost would not be surprised if the clans were devised fairly early in BT development and it just took some time for them to fully get fleshed out and thought about.

I remember talking to one of the support staff at a con this summer, he hired on as a writer for some of the TRO's.
He worked directly with the Fasa team, he told me; that the way the clans played out was not the original idea.
the original idea was that the Wolves Dragoons (as they are known now) would have been the invading clans, and that
their tech would have been Star League+ not gamer-weeping MarySueTech

[Stormwolf]

CoffiNail, on 09 November 2011 - 10:58 AM, said:

You know what I find funny... is how so many people think FASA did not have the whole Clan invasion lined up early on. Maybe not in 1985, but 1987+ probably, Look at the various articles on Wolf's Dragoons and more so Natasha Keresnky. They dropped a number of hints along the way that something just was not normal about the Wolf's Dragoons... I almost would not be surprised if the clans were devised fairly early in BT development and it just took some time for them to fully get fleshed out and thought about.

I think that Clan Wolf, Coyote and Blood Spirit might have already tossed around during the early stages. My reasoning is that Wolf and Coyote don't have anything added to their names to indicate the nature of their totem animals. Clan Wolf might have been Clan Giant Wolf or Titan Wolf seeing how the totem animal is twice the size of a normal Wolf.

Clan Blood Spirit sticks out because they don't have a name that is based on a animal.

And there's ofcourse the Wolf's Dragoons connection mentioned by CoffiNail above ^

Edited by stormwolf, 09 November 2011 - 11:09 AM.

[Owl Cutter]

Unless I have been misinformed, in which case I thank you in advance for correcting me, each clan is led by a Khan who proves his or her worth through mortal combat, Elementals end up heavily represented in government offices. I also wasn't talking about eugenics so much as artificial wombs, since in BT they're stigmatised and most people do things the old, sloppy, painful, hazardous way. To much of the 'Sphere, "canisters" are super-squickly. That's to say nothing of Canister itself...

Aaron, I was trying to highlight how hilariously futile the Crusader approach looks to me, and the fact that we humans are frighteningly tribalistic, especially where there are actual cultural differences to make it even harder bridge the gulf. I think it's been made clear that most spheroids have a problem with the way the Warrior caste works, and more importantly they way they think it works, and probably don't want to be led by them. Add some hostility carefully cultivated with that by the powers that be in the Successor States, and I have to wonder why any one can seriously expect the poor subjects to be swayed. I just have to think the Warden approach is much more sane, as it recognises that those in need of their enlightenment aren't going to instantly recognise the wisdom of their ways, since, you know, they are in need of enlightenment, and that coming in peace is probably gonna get more respect if you're allegedly all for minimising the horrors of war.

Edited by Owl Cutter, 09 November 2011 - 11:30 AM.

[Stormwolf]

Owl Cutter, on 09 November 2011 - 11:29 AM, said:

and that coming in peace is probably gonna get more respect if you're allegedly all for minimising the horrors of war.

Sure, we don't want to blow up our future technicians and laborers.

[DFDelta]

Quote

What are the Clans to you?

Simple. Foreign invaders and future salvage that is still waiting to happen.

[Paladin1]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 09 November 2011 - 11:07 AM, said:

I remember talking to one of the support staff at a con this summer, he hired on as a writer for some of the TRO's.
He worked directly with the Fasa team, he told me; that the way the clans played out was not the original idea.
the original idea was that the Wolves Dragoons (as they are known now) would have been the invading clans, and that
their tech would have been Star League+ not gamer-weeping MarySueTech

I'm wondering who you talked too, because I've spoken with a few writers as well and heard almost the very same thing. The Clans were never supposed to be this dangerous, they were just supposed to be a little better than Star League tech, which is the reason the 2750TRO came out when it did. The PTB at the time wanted to set the stage for the return, but went overboard.

I've also heard about the Mk.1 Omnis from about the same time frame, but that turned out to just be a rumor, thank ***!

Edited by Paladin1, 09 November 2011 - 12:38 PM.

[Stormwolf]

Paladin1, on 09 November 2011 - 12:37 PM, said:

I've also heard about the Mk.1 Omnis from about the same time frame, but that turned out to just be a rumor, thank ***!

I was given to understand that originally all the MK. 1 omnis were going to get endo and ferro, the Hellbringer would have been a beast if they did that. There's also some rumors that the original Timber Wolf was going to have two LRM 15 racks (as seen in the original art).

[Paladin1]

That's the rumor, but I've got it directly from the current PTB that the Mk.1 Omnis were just a rumor that someone started after the 3050TRO came out.

Trust me, I've seen the load outs of the Mk.1 Omnis and if those were the real Omnis the game would have instantly went supernova from the sheer amount of MarySue Syndrome present. I mean, seriously, a Hellbringer with armor? No thank you.

[Tsula]

Well considering I played Clan Wolf, I am Warden so Protectors of Terra all the way.

[madman]

It seems other trothkin wiser than I have already expressed the positives of the Clan way of life. I will simply add my voice to theirs and abide.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

DFDelta, on 09 November 2011 - 12:03 PM, said:

Simple. Foreign invaders and future salvage that is still waiting to happen.

That pretty much sums it up. Hard to be honorable in combat when you're dead.

[fett]

There seems to be an option missing:

"The clans are to Battletech what Jar Jar Binks is to the Star Wars franchise" - that would be my vote.

[Stormwolf]

fett, on 09 November 2011 - 01:09 PM, said:

There seems to be an option missing:

"The clans are to Battletech what Jar Jar Binks is to the Star Wars franchise" - that would be my vote.

And why would you vote that?

[Perfect Tommy]

Zarkstein, on 09 November 2011 - 02:11 AM, said:

None of the above.

Im my opinion the Clans where the most stupid idea FASA could think of, for the Battletech universe. Their weapons and mech components did not fit in the (classic) ruleset and killed game balance. Oh, and their fluff isn't that interesting either.

I simply ignore them on every level.

I had a friend that shared a similar sentiment. He found the political developments of the Succession War going on at the time to be incredibly compelling and the Clan invasion just flushed all of that down the toilet.

Personally, I wasn't too up on a lot of the background stuff at the time, but I did see the Clans as BTs version of needless power creep (or power LEAP, really.) From a game-mechanic standpoint, it was just power-gamer cheese to me.

Aaron DeChavilier, on 09 November 2011 - 11:07 AM, said:

I remember talking to one of the support staff at a con this summer, he hired on as a writer for some of the TRO's.
He worked directly with the Fasa team, he told me; that the way the clans played out was not the original idea.
the original idea was that the Wolves Dragoons (as they are known now) would have been the invading clans, and that
their tech would have been Star League+ not gamer-weeping MarySueTech

This is where I get some mixed emotions. From the first time I opened my BT box, the paragraph-long description and slavering wolf's-head insignia of Wolf's Dragoons immediately fascinated me. When their sourcebook came out, I read it cover to cover and was tantalized by how many questions it raised rather than answered. It was fairly obvious that they had some connection to Kerensky's diaspora, but the book otherwise played pretty coy about it.

So, yeah, the fact that they had something planned from the start for the return of Kerensky's descendants sort of goes without saying. I was less than impressed by the manner in which they eventually handled it, though. That it diverged quite a bit from the designers' original intentions seems incredibly believable.

As far as the Dragoons go, I'm at least comforted by the fact that they (for the most part) told the Clans where to shove their orders to return to the fold.

[Von Ryan]

What are the Clans to you?


"targets"

- Major Maximillian Von Ryan, House Steiner

[Youngblood]

The Clans are wannabe furries, some of whom enjoy being born in jars, and they all have aspirations of becoming the playground bullies of the Inner Sphere.

I don't believe anything I said there was untrue. Just very simplified.

The fact that they were given hyper-weapons was so they could be a challenge for veteran players. But I suppose fleshing them out allowed FASA to tap into a whole new generation of gamers....

[MagnusEffect]

In an effort to make this poll better represent people's viewpoints, I have included one more option. Feel free to modify your vote as needed.

Also worth noting:
It is great to see how the vast majority of everyone here seems to actually know something about the Clans and, by extension, the BT/MW universe (my previous assumptions were apparently wrong). I'm guessing many of us here right now are all longtime fans of the series and joined the forums when we heard about MWO. While no one can be sure exactly how the game will play, I find it very reassuring to see so many as passionate about it as myself

Edited by MagnusEffect, 09 November 2011 - 03:01 PM.

[Youngblood]

Quote

I know enough about the Clans to know I don't like their introduction into the BT/MW universe because of (whatever reason). I'm an oldschool pre-3049 gamer at heart.

There are those of us who are post-3049 gamers who still think the Clans are kinda meh.

[vasile]

My choice is not represented by this poll. For me, they are missguided heirs of the legacy of the Star League Self Defence Force, this comming from reading the stament Kerensky left with his last broadcast.

[MagnusEffect]

Youngblood, on 09 November 2011 - 03:04 PM, said:

There are those of us who are post-3049 gamers who still think the Clans are kinda meh.

Good point. I rephrased the answer better.

vasile"edge" ilinov, on 09 November 2011 - 03:13 PM, said:

My choice is not represented by this poll. For me, they are missguided heirs of the legacy of the Star League Self Defence Force, this comming from reading the stament Kerensky left with his last broadcast.

That seems sort of splitting hairs specific. I'm purposefully not trying to get too specific. I get what you are saying, but try to pick the one that best fits your opinion of them. Probably option 1 or 4 depending on your perspective.

Edited by MagnusEffect, 09 November 2011 - 03:24 PM.