125 replies to this topic

[MaddMaxx]

ArmandTulsen, on 05 June 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

You're more than welcome to buy a Highlander and participate in the "poptarting."The tactic doesn't make you invincible and it certainly isn't the easy-win, nuke button everybody is making it out to be.PGI pulled the parental equivalent of giving your kid exactly what he's yelling for, so he stops crying.I kinda wish they pulled that with ECM back in the day, instead of waiting MONTHS to make changes.

That bandwagon is full. So much so folks started to complain about the cramped quarters on said bandwagon.

Well in all fairness, when enough kids yell the same thing, perhaps it is right for a Parent to pay attention.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Prezimonto, on 06 June 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

As someone who's recently started piloting cicada's... the cockpit sways and the hud is motionless. It's the first mech (including a spider) where I feel totally thrown out of the game while piloting. Sway with movement would be incredible, and much less annoying than the weird dichotomy I'm seeing right now.

Where the difference lies though is in how much the gyros (and HUD software) can handle when it comes to movement. Since sway is an easy thing to negate while using only 2 axes' then you have the current method now. But gyros were only designed to work on 2 (horizontal) axes' adding a vertical one makes it useless. That makes the software the only thing that can compensate for movement, which it can't handle alone.

[Theodor Kling]

Disapirro, on 06 June 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

Being an ex-M1A1 tank crewman back in late 80's- early 90's, I would say that the crosshair not shaking and staying on target while moving is completely believable. The stability of the gun, despite the up/down and rotation of the tank was incredible.

Yeah, but real world atrgeting and stabelizing technologoy is waybeyond BT's tech

[Wreknar Temper]

I know that the current thoughts of the poptart pilots is that poptarting is dead, but didn't it really just push the point of your shot to the decent phase of your jump instead of the ascent like it previously was? I typically play brawlers with JJ and last night I had no trouble landing shots on target while on the decent. I'm not talking about faceplanting an SRM alpha either, I'm talking about putting twin medium lasers on an Atlas's AC port from 400+ out as I closed in on him.

From and observer's POV the JJ change seem to only push up the exposure time poptarts have to suffer while jump sniping.

[DocBach]

The M4 sherman's stabilized Cannon from the 1940's is lostech, sorry.

No, really, it really is.

Walking up to 2/3 throttle gives a +1 accuracy penalty, running gives a +2, jumping gives a +3. I honestly think they went overboard with the jet shake, but they've totally made the feeling of being in a lumbering gigantic robot underwhelming with no screen shake.

Edited by DocBach, 06 June 2013 - 08:21 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Theodor Kling, on 06 June 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

Quote

Disapirro, on 06 June 2013 - 08:58 AM, said: Being an ex-M1A1 tank crewman back in late 80's- early 90's, I would say that the crosshair not shaking and staying on target while moving is completely believable. The stability of the gun, despite the up/down and rotation of the tank was incredible.

Yeah, but real world targeting and stabilizing technology is way beyond BT's tech

A tank is traveling on treads whereas mechs have a stride, putting one leg into front of the other and when running rarely are both feet on the ground.

With that said, the 3 strike nerf, and that is what it is, can be viewed either as a good or a bad precedence. They over compensate then they can make things better, much later on. And that is the bad thing, it can be much, much later on. Sadly most of us are suckers and many of us may stick it out long enough that they "tweak" it before we actually bail.

There is also the fact that they have now introduced (or reintroduced) 3 different mechanics to the game. Some sort of screen shake had been here already but imho previously not as severe, or may be it is as severe but the players' eyes weren't trying to focus on a specific object. Wacky cross hair movement would appear to be more of an optical effect atm. Then the randomization of shots, similar to a wacky convergence gone bad. Will PGI use one or more of those mechanics to apply weapon fire penalties based on all movement? It would be one of the routes to go in an attempt to lengthen a mech's life span.

For myself I would prefer a cone of fire and may be a tad of a screen shake, depending on what I was doing. But the current application means I will be popping a few advil and try not to focus on the middle of my display, especially if I am carrying missiles of one type or another. Adapt and not use it or remove it? If there was a particular weapon type that was changed that caused you discomfort, would you really be ok with tons of others telling you to do that?

sad day...

[KuruptU4Fun]

Tarl Cabot, on 06 June 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

A tank is traveling on treads whereas mechs have a stride, putting one leg into front of the other and when running rarely are both feet on the ground.

With that said, the 3 strike nerf, and that is what it is, can be viewed either as a good or a bad precedence. They over compensate then they can make things better, much later on. And that is the bad thing, it can be much, much later on. Sadly most of us are suckers and many of us may stick it out long enough that they "tweak" it before we actually bail.

There is also the fact that they have now introduced (or reintroduced) 3 different mechanics to the game. Some sort of screen shake had been here already but imho previously not as severe, or may be it is as severe but the players' eyes weren't trying to focus on a specific object. Wacky cross hair movement would appear to be more of an optical effect atm. Then the randomization of shots, similar to a wacky convergence gone bad. Will PGI use one or more of those mechanics to apply weapon fire penalties based on all movement? It would be one of the routes to go in an attempt to lengthen a mech's life span.

For myself I would prefer a cone of fire and may be a tad of a screen shake, depending on what I was doing. But the current application means I will be popping a few advil and try not to focus on the middle of my display, especially if I am carrying missiles of one type or another. Adapt and not use it or remove it? If there was a particular weapon type that was changed that caused you discomfort, would you really be ok with tons of others telling you to do that?

sad day...

Motion sickness due to shake for a few seconds as opposed to what takes several minutes in a car means you may want to have your eyes checked. Or simply un-focus your eyes until you're ready to fire your weapon when you let off the space bar to stop the shake.

[Disapirro]

Tarl Cabot, on 06 June 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

A tank is traveling on treads whereas mechs have a stride, putting one leg into front of the other and when running rarely are both feet on the ground.

Not that it really matters, as this is make believe and game balance and fun should take precedence over real world accuracy, but traveling on treads was hardly the advantage. It was absolutely the computer stabilzation of the gun. Prior to the M1, I was on the M60A3 and the M48A5, both lacked a gun stabilation system like the M1. It was impossible to keep your reticle on target while moving. You absolutely had to stop aim and fire on those platforms.

[Prezimonto]

But... it's ALL software... on my computer. You can do whatever makes sense, and the current implementation isn't good... it's counter to immersion. It would heavily stand to reason that if the whole F'in cockpit is shaking, my body should be as well... as long as it's strapped in. Basic momentum.

[SMDMadCow]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 04 June 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

JJs are giant reaction-mass thrusters that launch 20+ ton war machines, without any meaningful stabilizers, flight surfaces, or other such things, and does so with minimal warm-up time. The things accelerate super fast, and don't have any way to compensate for the thrust to try to maintain a steady sight picture.

Compare that to running, where a mech has gyro-stabilization and neurohelmet information to keep the thing steady on its feet. It doesn't matter how good your gyro or neurohelmet is if your feet are not on the ground, but when the mech can actually use its myomers and actuators to respond to gyro and neurohelmet inputs then it ought to be able to remain pretty steady.

Best explanation yet.
BTW, I usually run a CTF-3D poptart and the shake is a good thing. Its not too horrible really and definately cuts down the long range pop sniping.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Prezimonto, on 06 June 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

But... it's ALL software... on my computer. You can do whatever makes sense, and the current implementation isn't good... it's counter to immersion. It would heavily stand to reason that if the whole F'in cockpit is shaking, my body should be as well... as long as it's strapped in. Basic momentum.

Here's your immersion:
http://boomchair.com/stealth-boomchair

or
http://www.pcmag.com...,1964592,00.asp

Edited by KuruptU4Fun, 06 June 2013 - 08:57 AM.

[Jess Hazen]

ArmandTulsen, on 04 June 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

...shake from moving your mech. The crosshair shouldn't be stable in either case. To be consistent, there has to be some amount of shake from moving your mech at top speed.
It's ridiculous how a light mech moving at 130 kph has pin-point accuracy, but a little thruster propulsion means it hits a 9 on the Richter scale.
Make this change make sense, PGI. Please. Thanks.

yeah this change makes ZERO sense.

developers please wake up and overhaul JJs completely.

the complete overhaul of JJs has been necessary for some time and this is what is done?

Unacceptable.

Edited by Jess Hazen, 06 June 2013 - 09:05 AM.

[DerSpecht]

If There Is Jj Shake, Then There Must Be... BACON!

[Jess Hazen]

I just watched some video of the change and it looks like the mechs carry all the jumpjets on their heads while they're all set to pulse vibrate such a bs change.

what needs to be done is a complete overhaul of JJs.

Erase all JJ files and restart.

[River Walker]

This is the same wine I have seen with AC2 SSRM gauss rifle.

I remember when thy tern the gauss rifle in to a bomb and user asking why and then started to say that Med lazier should blow or melt down when Mech over heats.

I still remember being blinded by SSRM and been shaken so bad that you could not shoot back because of the shake was so bad, oh and then having to deal with Army's of SSRM CATS

Edited by River Walker, 06 June 2013 - 09:16 AM.

[I am]

JJ Shake in MWO? How could this be good for the game?

[SixBottles]

malibu43, on 06 June 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

To me, this game feels a little CODish at times the way everyone runs around at full speed while shooting. Encouraging players to move more slowly while firing or move to a good firing position quickly then slow down to engage would make the game feel more like that 2009 MW5 trailer. LIghts could still run around fast to "scout" and they could still fire relatively well on the move (with the amount of crosshair shake you simulated). And, like someone else mentioned, different weight classes or even chassis could have different quirks to make them more or less adept at firing on the move. The original Ghost Recon had all this, and I really like it.

and it would indirectly boost lasers, srm's, lbx's and all other fast firing non pinpoint weapons... wich would be a good thing.

yes, but could encourage camping though... on the other hand a moving target is still harder to hit than a stationary one.

[River Walker]

I am, on 06 June 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

JJ Shake in MWO? How could this be good for the game?

It all come down to having a game stile Nerf.
Do I love Pop-tart player, Nop I don't so lets Nerf them just like the Gauss rifle sniper player was.
This is all about having ones playing stile ****** up.

[KuruptU4Fun]

River Walker, on 06 June 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

It all come down to having a game stile Nerf.
Do I love Pop-tart player, Nop I don't so lets Nerf them just like the Gauss rifle sniper player was.
This is all about having ones playing stile ****** up.

I'm sure you should be using spell check to make your point understandable, but I'll try to work around it.

I'm all fine with play style, though play style should be something that takes skill to master. Not something you can pick up like mashing a button like you're playing Mortal Kombat for the first time.

You get skill by learning and adapting to the situation as it is changed by other players, then you build style by changing the situation yourself and forcing others to change to you.

That is the definition of "play style" River, you master the situation or it masters you. Your K/D ratio and end score is affected either way.

[Karr285]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jump_Jets

Attacks by a Jumping 'Mech

Jumping makes a 'Mech harder to hit, but the accuracy of weapons fitted to the jumping 'Mech is also adversely affected^[4]. Is this now true? yes or no? If yes working.


oh and be thank full they haven't implemented this part of JJ's

Care must be taken when jumping, however, as jumping causes heat buildup with even the shortest jump generating more heat than running, and damage to a 'Mech's gyro or leg actuators and joints can cause a 'Mech to fumble upon landing^[4].

Owing to the inability of liquids to be compressed, submerged jump jets cannot be used lest the extreme pressure rupture the jet's casing

take them for what they are, Movement enhancers not weapon augmenters.