blinkin, on 07 June 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:
ok now you go strap an engine to your back that launches you 20 meters into the air in under a couple seconds, and see just how stable your vision is.
yes the eyes and brain can properly compensate for predictable rhythmic motions, BUT that only goes so far. otherwise mechanical bulls wouldn't be as much of a challenge (or real ones for that matter). our muscles make small corrections to adjust for rapid movements, but when EVERYTHING around you is shaking there is only so much that can be done.
the problem is that deficiencies in your monitor do not allow your eyes to easily find a point of reference. the points are still there but the motion of the screen in any case is not nearly as smooth as reality, so even if it is something your eyes could normally compensate for they won't properly lock on because the point of reference is jumping around ever so slightly.
also when you are jogging or running your body is designed to absorb most of the impact so that you do not suffer trauma to your brain. when it is motion you control, your muscles adapt and make corrections, all the way from your toes to your neck muscles. these mechs are rigid bodies with massive jet engines crammed inside. most can't even bend over very far (no matter what game you are playing and i don't remember seeing anything that looked like a neck on any of them)
you want a better test? hop up and down in place on a hard surface. while you are doing that get a paintball gun and try to aim it and hit something roughly man sized from 10 feet away.
sry but others argument that a mech simply "has to shake" just because it is jetting is sadly patently fallacious. the reality is that larger mechs would dampen the JJ quite well being it has much much more mass and a much slower ascent compared to a spry small mech that should ascend quickly albeit more erratically, the JJ in this game do not make a mech move fast enough for anything other then aerodynamic drag and gravity to affect them as far as realism is concerned, so all arguments that mechs with/without slimmer/aerodynamic profiles should/shouldn't shake is also similarly fallacious.
this is because as far as rockets are concerned if your thrust is constant IE unchanging, once any object is off the ground the envelope of exhaust is force that pushes against the mass of a mech, this is not some uncontrolled un-throttled force widely directed at all angles down. it is a constant-direct-force creating a uniform-gas-pressure-wave underneath the object. (on its own this gas bubble is actually a shock absorber acting to dampen out irregularities of pressure within the pocket creating a more perfect uniform wave) rockets and mechs should experience the worst shake close to the ground with light mechs having more shake then heavier mechs. this is because the ground will disrupt its "perfect" gas bubble, create turbulence and preventing uniform pressure against the thrusters.
im no rocket scientist here but its easy enough to look into these things (google) and realize that if you are comparing rockets, a small rocket with a high thrust to weight ratio would prove exceedingly hard to control, simply because the exhaust forces outweigh the mass of the rocket so significantly. a heavier rocket is much much more stable because as others have pointed out, they simply have more mass to dampen the shock and oscillations. E=MC squared and all that.
this is simple physics, if you doubt me make a few cheap hobby rockets, take two the same size and add a weight in the nose of one rocket (not to much or it wont even take off lol) and leave nothing in the other, see which one flies straighter. i predict the one with the weight, even tho it may not fly as high, it will fly straighter, and that is a direct result of the extra mass dampening lateral forces that act on a rocket, both its own forces and outside ones. also balance of the weight relative to the axis of travel plays a role in stability as well. this is why rifling barrels and rockets that spin are more accurate. they turn the vibrations into spin, which more efficiently directs the energy imparted to the mass along the intended path. how does this affect mwo? idk but i have spun in circles with JJ so it would be nice to have a "realistic" effect as a result.
but simply put i don't want to see lights with the worst shake or heavies with no shake at all. i would prefer a good middle ground that involves NO shaking at all past a terminal point where the gas bubble is no longer disrupted by the ground, no 10m pop sniping but feel free to fly high and gently along as lights should. lights should have a much lower terminal height which they gain stability. this also makes sense because they wouldn't need such large thrusters. bigger mechs would need to achieve a higher altitude to achieve stability but it would be there and you wouldn't need to kill the thrust to get stability.
I don't think the random reticle/aiming is valid either. there is a tank referred to as a M-1 Abrams, can go 60kph? (dont quote me on that) but it CAN fire 3 round salvos at full speed across rough terrain AND make all 3 rounds land at the same time on the same target, by using trajectory when firing and a fairly simple computer to control it all. modern technology and there is no reticle shake whatsoever a computer simply auto targets and fires, all the tank gunner has to do is select targets and hit a button. where is my radar controlled auto-cannons you say? and as many others have stated and i have yet to see refuted, random=random, there is no skill in random only luck.
JJ shake should go out the window period, i can hardly bear to shoot at the lights now, i purposely ignore them if im not playing a light or they aren't directly harassing me. i feel bad knowing they cannot escape, cannot skirmish nearly at the level they were before. just feels unsportsmanlike like, like shooting a lion in a cage.......
it hurts my eyes and punishes anyone for simply using JJ which completely nullifies their advantages. JJ already take up space and weight. in bigger mechs like HM JJ are 2 tons a piece so in your 90 ton assault 10 tons of it can be pure JJ. i would say that was already an ample tradeoff of firepower and speed for what amounts to superior mobility. the JJ nerf now means those 10 tons are an absolute waste and no one needs more then 1 JJ and they only need it for getting over terrain faster or light jump brawling. so why even bother making any variants that have more then 1 JJ? what of the spider that gets 12? why cant it JJ smoothly? HM gets more JJ then any other assault, shouldn't that mean it gets more stability or better jetting then the other assaults?
JJ should not be an eyesore for anyone, even if all they use JJ for is getting up that one level to keep up with the team, even if all its for is to jump over those annoying 5m rocks in all the maps to make a quick escape. it does not matter how long or short you prefer to JJ you shouldn't be punished at all for simply wanting to use the 3d dimension as a tactic. and all those that want to "punish" the JJ you need to play another game, JJ are a part of mechwarrior and just because you want to cling to your fatlas doesnt give you privilage of forcing every other player to fight against your fatlas with no real alternatives.
which is all ive been seeing so far, lrm boats fatlases and insta smackdown across the board. this is not balance, this is not fun, JJ allowed uniqe and varied tactics to oppose such simple tactics as blobbing or overpowering force. now there is no alternatives there are only fatlasess and and blight out the skies. getting cored 5 different directions from instagib dual guass ac20 erppc srm+artimes with the LRM 100 smacking you down, is not what i would call tactics or fun.
Edited by Mellifluer, 07 June 2013 - 11:51 PM.
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