1217 replies to this topic

[LastPaladin]

Either change the jj shake or just eliminate spiders from the game, because they are pretty much useless now, especially the non-ECM variants. Reimbursement for those of us that spent money on now-useless jj lights would be nice, but I know that's not going to happen. I guess I just learned NOT to spend any money on this game until you guys figure out what mechs you are going to leave playable.

[chewie]

Monkey Cheese

Yep. I didnt read everything as you put it, but i understand exactly what folks are saying. All of a sudden, with the new animation, they find they are getting motion sick.

My comments are aimed at those who want to see it removed.

If you bothered to read and comprehend my comments, you'd realize that I agreed, that if the new animation is causing an issue, it needs to be looked at, and then adjusted accordingly.

You actually deleted the paragraph where I said as much, so here, let me put it back exactly as it was.

chewie, on 07 June 2013 - 04:05 AM, said:

Perhaps the effects do need to be adjusted once enough data has been given on how many JJ capable mechs are using them now, and some attention given to concerns about possible side effects, but there is no reason for them to be removed when they are a perfectly natural scientific reaction applied within the game.

If your gonna quote someone, don't just snip it to make it look like they are trying to shout you down for the sake of it while giving a logical response.

I've had enough experience (as have a lot of other players) over the years with different games affecting people different ways.

For example. I used to play Jedi Knight : Jedi Outcast, no issues, yet my other half couldn't play it for more than 30 minutes before feeling *ill*. Didn't wear glasses back then, but she did.

I used to play MWO on a 17" monitor at 1280*1024 (sat quite close) and had no issues when riding with light pilots at warp speed. I recently upgraded and now play on a wall mounted monitor @ 1920 x1080 at a distance of around 4 ft away (the monitors a 40" beastie) and I now cannot stand being in a fast mech because of how the MONITOR displays the game and deals with after image/ghosting and such. I find watching a fast mech being twitchy quite a strain on my eyes. And if i kept on watching it, I would no doubt have a headache before long.

But I'm not blaming the game. I'm putting it down to overall environmental changes (size of screen, distance to it, type of display etc LCD to LED).

My end point is this, its not necessarily the animation/effects for the cockpit shake etc that's causing the problem, but a host of other factors too.

[MonkeyCheese]

chewie, on 07 June 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

Monkey Cheese

Yep. I didnt read everything as you put it, but i understand exactly what folks are saying. All of a sudden, with the new animation, they find they are getting motion sick.

My comments are aimed at those who want to see it removed.

If you bothered to read and comprehend my comments, you'd realize that I agreed, that if the new animation is causing an issue, it needs to be looked at, and then adjusted accordingly.

You actually deleted the paragraph where I said as much, so here, let me put it back exactly as it was.




If your gonna quote someone, don't just snip it to make it look like they are trying to shout you down for the sake of it while giving a logical response.

I've had enough experience (as have a lot of other players) over the years with different games affecting people different ways.

For example. I used to play Jedi Knight : Jedi Outcast, no issues, yet my other half couldn't play it for more than 30 minutes before feeling *ill*. Didn't wear glasses back then, but she did.

I used to play MWO on a 17" monitor at 1280*1024 (sat quite close) and had no issues when riding with light pilots at warp speed. I recently upgraded and now play on a wall mounted monitor @ 1920 x1080 at a distance of around 4 ft away (the monitors a 40" beastie) and I now cannot stand being in a fast mech because of how the MONITOR displays the game and deals with after image/ghosting and such. I find watching a fast mech being twitchy quite a strain on my eyes. And if i kept on watching it, I would no doubt have a headache before long.

But I'm not blaming the game. I'm putting it down to overall environmental changes (size of screen, distance to it, type of display etc LCD to LED).

My end point is this, its not necessarily the animation/effects for the cockpit shake etc that's causing the problem, but a host of other factors too.

OK I apologize for making it look bad and I wasnt really targeting anything at you.

Its just you have to understand that im just trying to point out to readers in general that along with a lot of others here I love my light mech playstyle and its getting increasingly frustrating to see people say or suggest that we should change the way we have been playing for months and months due to nauesia effects just to keep a 2nd group of people happy because a 3rd group of people are getting their poptart playstyle nerfed. Even if light mechs can aim perfectly in the air, their small firepower and armor are not a threat.

Also its been days now PGI where is your official responce? I want my spider back aswell as having a victor that is not stupefied when it comes out.

[DeaconW]

Avi8tor, on 06 June 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

LRM's NERFED BALANCED....ECM >...NERFED BALANCED.....GUASE...NERFED BALANCED..........THERMAL VIEW>>>NERFED BALANCED....

Fixed it for you. Notice a pattern(the game is technically still in beta, remember)? Your problem is that, like a lemming, you keep flocking to the FOTM broken mechanics when they are released and then act surprised when they are adjusted. We used to make millions of C-bills per match back in Closed Beta....you gonna call them adjusting it an "Economy nerf" and now cry about it? They fixed some of the broken light hitboxes...light mech "nerf"! They introduced HSR to reduce lagshield...lagshield nerf! This is how you sound, dude. The solution? Stop trying to follow the FOTM.

[DeaconW]

Wintersdark, on 07 June 2013 - 01:00 AM, said:

I did poptart.

That's right, you all heard that right. I poptarted. A lot. Pretty much all the time.

Why? Because it worked. I'll adapt my strategies to whatever works at any given time, because once I get out in my stompy robot, I want to win. I didn't like the poptart meta, though, because *everyone* poptarted. Battles where just stupid, a whole whack of bouncing mechs, it was just ridiculous.

I still do poptart, too, in a couple of my mechs. Despite all the ridiculous poptart tears, poptarting still works fine; it's just harder now because you have much less time to snap off an accurate shot. But you certainly can do it - I've had nothing but wins with my GR/2ERPPC HM since the patch.

It was a good change. It's helped the meta enormously. Jump Jets are still extremely useful, offering better terrain transversal, scouting advantages, pop-sniping, easy escape routes from combats not going your way.. but it's not the most effective way to play anymore, and that's a very good thing.

Thx for the honesty. Wish others could be.

[Milt]

I'm really curious about how much of the reduction in poptarting is from shooting while jumping becoming more difficult and how much is from the physical discomfort it has caused. personally i dont have a problem poptarting in heavy or assault mech atm(a playstyle, i dont enjoy btw). but my spider is unplayable now

Edited by Milt, 07 June 2013 - 06:36 AM.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

To note, I suffer neurovisual disruptions and know a lot of players (In general) with Epilepsy.

This current shake model poses serious problems for people with visual problems, and can very easily result in someone having an episode. Even for people without medical problems, this sort of rapid, jarring visual motion causes undue stress to the muscles that focus the eye and can (and does) cause migraines and other issues.

I highly recommend changing the visual shake portion of the effects drastically, even if you decide to keep the mechanics implementation. This is a serious problem, and I know you will do what is best for your player-base.

Please and thank you ahead of time.

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 07 June 2013 - 07:49 AM.

[IceSerpent]

chewie, on 07 June 2013 - 04:05 AM, said:

Perhaps the effects do need to be adjusted once enough data has been given on how many JJ capable mechs are using them now, and some attention given to concerns about possible side effects, but there is no reason for them to be removed when they are a perfectly natural scientific reaction applied within the game.

Chewie, the underlined part above is where you are very, very wrong - fetaures that cause physical discomfort should always be optional, especially given that underlying mechanic doesn't need to change (the only problem is the visual effect itself). Number of people still using JJs is irrelevant - even if only one player is affected, why hurt them for no reason whatsoever?

[Mystere]

Here's a suggestion for PGI: use Physics. Replace all the randomness in the cockpit and reticule shaking with a mathematical equation that simulates small oscillations in three dimensional space induced on a large mass by an upward thrust. And if you are already doing so, then replace/tune your equation.

Hopefully it's just the randomness that's giving me headaches.

[blinkin]

LastPaladin, on 07 June 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

Either change the jj shake or just eliminate spiders from the game, because they are pretty much useless now, especially the non-ECM variants. Reimbursement for those of us that spent money on now-useless jj lights would be nice, but I know that's not going to happen. I guess I just learned NOT to spend any money on this game until you guys figure out what mechs you are going to leave playable.

my jenner works just fine with it's jump jets.

get rid of the visual effects that are making people physically uncomfortable, BUT everything else should stay FOR ALL OF THE MECHS (and yes i know the "all" part is going to make plenty of players angry at me from both sides) and players should just adapt to it. i learned to aim with the little bit of shake within 2 or 3 matches, it is not the world ender that many have described.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

heheh honesty means agreeing with Deake. You're a genuine piece of work.

If they can fix poptarts, lets fix pugs, PGI. Something that really affects game play. They want to prohibit whatever the "community" (vocal facets of certain factions within the community, since I'm seeing all the same names) labels an exploit. Even if its just a logjam that could be fixed IMHO, in other ways not requiring negative changes to the player interface. People complained about Dual Gauss, so they "balanced it". They could have just increased the critical chance and made the thing cause crazy splash damage, but they did that plus quartering the module health points. People complained about LRM, so they have been working on LRM for about a year now, deadly, less-than-deadly, finger of god deadly, and so on. And oh GOD I still have to refrain from talking about what they did to how Jump Jets perform........

...i'll just say they still suck.



The point is, every time PGI tries some kind of actively reductive addition to the game system, they end up knocking a shelf of expensive scotch over. They end up breaking something, sometimes it's something I like. Sometimes they fix it, sometimes it comes back looking like the ********* ELEPHANT MAN. Their corrective solution hurts some people physically, it interferes with the games of many, all so a handful of people can make libations because their "poptarters are ruining the game" prayers were answered. And it's only when people agree with your narrative of poptarts being a menace, and everything being ok right now, even though "Ohmahgerd! We can still haz Toaster Strudelz", that they're being honest??

When Third Person arrives, where will your god be then?

Edited by ArchMage Sparrowhawk, 07 June 2013 - 10:23 AM.

[Aslena]

all of the "JJ would make you shake like crazy irl" stuff is silly... if you want to bring real life into the JJ argument then tell me how we have lasers that can blow up planes/missiles/torps that are incoming from a ship rockin around and moving on the ocean. not to mention we have a multi-ton 3050 technology Gyro. With current technology we could create a cockpit that would let a baby sleep through JJ... The Reticule shake is plenty to stop most all poptarts. I personally can't play "Most" 1st person shooters" because they give me horrible headaches.. A few "like this one" doesn't, but I now can't use my JJ on my spider because it does...

Edited by Aslena, 07 June 2013 - 10:08 AM.

[Havok1978]

if you make it so weapons cant be fired at all while in the air... ppl will come up with another reason that shouldnt be done, i jumpsniped, i havent for awhile, i dont mind not seeing an army of jump snipers... the motion sickness is a lie!

[DeaconW]

ArchMage Sparrowhawk, on 07 June 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

heheh honesty means agreeing with Deake. You're a genuine piece of work.

No, honesty is honesty. Or are you accusing Wintersdark of lying? Wintersdark is the best example for why I question the sincerely of the poptarts who are trying to defend their pet broken meta...either that or those defenders have IQ's so low they really cannot comprehend what was painfully obvious to the MWO community and PGI acknowledged and corrected...poptarting was a broken mechanic that made the game one-dimensional (ironic, eh?) and less fun for most. But for the "I have to win no matter what" low self-esteem players, this fix is indeed a threat, so they have to pretend what Wintersdark says isn't true. They are like the Amanda Bynes of MWO...in complete self-delusion or purposeful deception...take your pick.

[Orthodontist]

Been playing with my Cataphract 3-D the last few days since this change came out. I have to say I am quite pleased with the effects of said change. My own personal experience piloting mechs with Jump Jets has been overwhelmingly positive.

Please keep this change. Its adds not only immersion, but a fun and reliable way to actually make a "skilled shot." (Letting go and dropping before firing.) Now, I don't use a "pop tart" build on my 3-D, but non the less, this feature feels like it should been included with jump jets since the start.

This is a good thing, and I thank you for a positive experience/change to my overall continued enjoyment of your game.

Thanks a ton!

Ortho <3

Edited by Orthodontist, 07 June 2013 - 10:18 AM.

[Mengsai]

I concur with the developers choice going forward. Please remove the Screen Shake and keep the crosshair/reticle shake to make the game more realistic and playable for the people with motion sickness. It will take more skill to shoot in the air but that is fine with me.

It would be even better if the crosshair shake was reduced the longer the jump jets were engaged as the mech stabilizes in the air, thereby reducing the time it would take to align the target. (i.e. Be able to align a little before the top of the jump)

Keep up the good work and thanks for listening to players feedback.

[Mystere]

Havok1978, on 07 June 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

if you make it so weapons cant be fired at all while in the air... ppl will come up with another reason that shouldnt be done, i jumpsniped, i havent for awhile, i dont mind not seeing an army of jump snipers... the motion sickness is a lie!

The physically "perfect" human being has spoken. As such, any contrary statement must be a lie!

[Felicitatem Parco]

my $0.02...

I like the inclusion of Camera Shake, but think it should the magnitude of oscillation should be reduced by about 35%.

I like the randomness given to the actual weapon trajectories.

I DO NOT like the reticule dance, though, as it is somewhat redundant if the weapons are going to fire off-kilter anyways, and the dancing reticule causes my head to spin a little. The camera shake is fine to me, but the reticule dance is not needed if the weapons are being granted their own inherent inaccuracy.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

DeaconW, on 07 June 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

No, honesty is honesty. Or are you accusing Wintersdark of lying? Wintersdark is the best example for why I question the sincerely of the poptarts who are trying to defend their pet broken meta...either that or those defenders have IQ's so low they really cannot comprehend what was painfully obvious to the MWO community and PGI acknowledged and corrected...poptarting was a broken mechanic that made the game one-dimensional (ironic, eh?) and less fun for most. But for the "I have to win no matter what" low self-esteem players, this fix is indeed a threat, so they have to pretend what Wintersdark says isn't true. They are like the Amanda Bynes of MWO...in complete self-delusion or purposeful deception...take your pick.

I'm accusing you deake, of trying to run this one home, because it's your "meta pet". You're the one accusing others of being dishonest. People complain and it's a poptarter conspiracy because their "easy mode" is gone from the game. Hah, and apparently they're Low IQ and low self esteem. You find someone who supports your narrative, and 'finally someone is being honest'!

Edited by ArchMage Sparrowhawk, 07 June 2013 - 10:30 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Okay, everyone... If you'd like to have a back-and-forth argument or discussion about this, then could you please make it either a PM, or take it to the Gameplay Balance section for constructive discussions, or Deep Periphery where the only people who can hear you scream are the people who choose to hang out around there...?

This thread should be used for plunking down our feedback on the mechanic from our own personal perspectives, and not about replying back-and-forth at each other whilst making accusations of this and that. Let's please focus on just posting about our JJ Shake perspectives, and not our views on the postings that other Users have made in this thread.... thanks

Edited by Prosperity Park, 07 June 2013 - 10:39 AM.