1217 replies to this topic

[NeoFighter]

MonkeyCheese, on 14 June 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

I didn't put all my effort being good and performing well each match with my spiders and founders jenner and to fall in love with them just to permanently mothball them.

Seems too me like you did just that


Adapt and move on...quit complaining about changes

[MonkeyCheese]

NeoFighter, on 14 June 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Seems too me like you did just that


Adapt and move on...quit complaining about changes

So I have to quit jumpjets because they make me want to throw up and to just move on to grounded only mechs? All thanks to the poptart playstyle that I had nothing to do with?

Well I have a statement for you.

**** off and go troll somewhere else, and don't just selectively quote my words so they fit your troll better. Take your pop tart hate elsewhere.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

MonkeyCheese, on 14 June 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Its all right here http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2422765

Jumpjets don't need more penalties like heat, they were fine the way they were they needed lots of tweaking yes but they don't need penalties like heat or screenshaking. What's the point of a spider mech?

Who cares if a wider cone of fire is like a random die roll, isn't that the point of this screen and reticule shake anyway? To make the shots random?

I shall carry on my debate

The problem is as already proved in other threads and as pgi said in their patch notes ALL you had to do was stop thrusting your jumpjets and then take your shot... Good people and people who practice can still poptart away.

Yes numbers of poptarts are down and it isn't easy mode for the masses who have clearly moved on to ppc/lrm atlas/stalker builds, but it hurts light pilots and people affected physically by the screenshake more than the pro poptarting highlanders and cataphracts. They can continue if they choose to poptart, but I can't continue to drive my spider or any other Mech with jumpjets as even something simple like jumping up a slope or building makes me feel sick.

Don't use jumpjets people will say? Then what is the point of a spider or any other jumpjetting mech? I didn't put all my effort being good and performing well each match with my spiders and founders jenner and to fall in love with them just to permanently mothball them.

i don't really disagree, i just don't like random skillwarrior wants hits hits to land where he points them lol. your right that JJ don't need ALOT of adjusting to heat or any specific value, to make them balance. (honestly i thought the way they were before was close to home base, maybe a bit more speed and height jumping ability would have been nice), but that right mix seems to be very elusive for pgi atm . at least we have seen some of the posters around the forums offering good solutions and intelligent discussions . so don't mothball that sexy little spider yet, ive still had some success in 2 man group with my spider buddies, just have to stick together and stay coordinated.

Edited by Mellifluer, 14 June 2013 - 01:15 PM.

[Steel Will]

Niko Snow, on 04 June 2013 - 04:27 PM, said:

Tell us what you think of the new Jump-Jet Shake gameplay tweaks!

Spoiler

- Screen shake - Jump jetting Mechs shake while jump jets are active.
- Cross hair shake - Cross-hair shake while jump jets are active.
- Weapon fire spread - Aiming weapons is randomly offset while jump jets are active.

----
Just a quick FYI for everyone. We will investigate the reduction of screen shake to help those experiencing motion sickness and will try to reduce it to bearable levels. The targeting shake however will remain the same for the foreseeable future.

-Paul

The current target "shake" was acceptable as a quick band-aid, but it's not only a sloppy one it's obscenely annoying. I really can't believe you apparently consider this "issue resolved." An expanding reticule is at least one proper way to handle this. Eliminating it altogether and making other weapons/tactics as viable as jump sniping is another.

[BlacKcuD]

I like it. Highlanders jumping up and down behind cliffs nearly destroyed the meta. I like it much more this way.

[Shiro Matsumoto]

Perfect! a lot less Poptarting.

Edited by John McFianna, 14 June 2013 - 04:11 PM.

[Kunae]

John McFianna, on 14 June 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Perfect! a lot less Poptarting.

So the ends justify the means, no matter the collateral damage?

[MonkeyCheese]

From the ask the devs 40 answers

Bryan Ekman, on 14 June 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Sable: Jumpjet shake was a big step in the right direction. The shake seems a bit violent and disorienting and i'm sure it will be fine tuned in the future. Something just didn't seem fluid with the reticle shaking though and i came to the conclusion that it was because the rest of the HUD doesn't shake along with it making the reticle by itself seem awkward. Any plans to make the rest of the HUD shake to create a more fluid feeling?
A: Probably not, however we are tuning the shake amount to make it a little easier on the eyes.

If all you are going to do is just tune the shake then I am gonna have to say I am done with this wonderful game.

The crosshair shake is stupid for a first person shooter game and needs to go, and it and the cockpit shake will look even more worse and less realistic when you implement third person view.

It really is quite simple, like all other serious shooter games all you have to do is have your crosshairs get larger aka the cone of fire widens when you are jumpjetting.
Yes it is more work and it takes time and resources but widening the crosshairs wont just nerf poptarts it will also solve the following

• Solve the Nausea problem.
  
• Aiming when standing still.
  
• Aiming when walking.
  
• Aiming when running at max speed.
  
• Aiming when falling.
  
• Aiming when using MASC (so you dont have to nerf it after it is implemented.)

All of this can be solved with one mechanic

Honestly after 10 days, 46 pages and 900 plus posts this is all you have to say about it? and its not even in this thread. You said you were going to look at tuning from day 1.

I am just dissapointed...

R.I.P Spider

[NeoFighter]

MonkeyCheese, on 14 June 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

• Solve the Nausea problem.

What nausea problem....i play with over 40+ players at this game and NONE EVER got nauseous. Stop grasping at straws to try and get any of those unrealistic jump jet mechanics back in your hands.

If you get nauseous playing videos game, maybe you should find a new pass time.

[MonkeyCheese]

NeoFighter, on 14 June 2013 - 05:33 PM, said:

What nausea problem....i play with over 40+ players at this game and NONE EVER got nauseous. Stop grasping at straws to try and get any of those unrealistic jump jet mechanics back in your hands.

If you get nauseous playing videos game, maybe you should find a new pass time.

Go read the rest of this thread, there are plenty of people who this is affecting not just me, im just one of the more vocal ones.

I dont drive your hated poptarts, I want this alteration on this poptart fix because it affects other areas of the game. So there is no need to bash me for wanting a different kind of fix, the solutions that I have proposed as well as all the others in this thread still nerf your evil poptarts they just do it without the shaking.

Congratulations that you and ALL your friends are immune to this sensory input, also 40 people, wow man that's the best statistics I have ever seen clearly you are our allknowing god and what you say is absolute.

Of course this isn't that common of a thing otherwise it would be hundreds of pages and threads of complaining and no it is not the same kind of thing as sea sickness or any other kind of motion sickness I dont suffer from any of that and never have, this is the combination of screenshake + crosshairshake that is causing the problem, I am a spider pilot and have never had a problem with it before.

People are different, some are color blind, some are sensitive to flashing aka epilepsy and so on. Why you have some kind of hate for me and others getting affected by this sensory stimuli I do not know...

If you feel so strongly about your allpowerful point of view then go read the other 45 pages of this thread, most of the people here are complaining that the visual stimuli is affecting them but before the patch there was no problem with light mechs or any other kind of mech driving. There is hardly anyone here crying about the poptart highlander/cataphract nerf also this kind of bandaid fix nerfs lots of tactics with jumpjets and has clearly made them worthless to plenty of people in this thread.

If you actually read what I and others are saying you will see that we want a fix that STILL NERFS POPTARTS.
As I said before I dont go into colorblindness threads and forums and bash on people who cant see colors so why do you have to do the same thing here? What exactly is it that I am saying that offends you so much?

So if you actually bothered to read this please kindly take your poptart hate and nausea bashing elsewhere.

[Zeus X]

MonkeyCheese, on 14 June 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

From the ask the devs 40 answers



If all you are going to do is just tune the shake then I am gonna have to say I am done with this wonderful game.

The crosshair shake is stupid for a first person shooter game and needs to go, and it and the cockpit shake will look even more worse and less realistic when you implement third person view.

It really is quite simple, like all other serious shooter games all you have to do is have your crosshairs get larger aka the cone of fire widens when you are jumpjetting.
Yes it is more work and it takes time and resources but widening the crosshairs wont just nerf poptarts it will also solve the following

• Solve the Nausea problem.
  
• Aiming when standing still.
  
• Aiming when walking.
  
• Aiming when running at max speed.
  
• Aiming when falling.
  
• Aiming when using MASC (so you dont have to nerf it after it is implemented.)

All of this can be solved with one mechanic


Honestly after 10 days, 46 pages and 900 plus posts this is all you have to say about it? and its not even in this thread. You said you were going to look at tuning from day 1.

I am just dissapointed...

R.I.P Spider

It's amazing how the devs completely ignore issues like this.

This isn't the first, second, or third time either, sad that I believe IGP is pushing PGI in the wrong direction.

[NeoFighter]

MonkeyCheese, on 14 June 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

So if you actually bothered to read this please kindly take your poptart hate and nausea bashing elsewhere.

i didnt and i won't....same story....its like i said...anything you can say to get anything close to how it used to be.....just stop it and move on

[Zeus X]

NeoFighter, on 14 June 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

i didnt and i won't....same story....its like i said...anything you can say to get anything close to how it used to be.....just stop it and move on

I have some reading materials for you, so your not so ignorant when you post dribble.

http://visionhelp.wo...otion-sickness/

http://www.motion-sickness.co.uk/

http://en.wikipedia....Motion_sickness

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11952055

http://www.jneuroeng.../content/4/1/35

http://ptjournal.apt.../79/10/949.long

I can keep going with all the evidence in the world that millions of people like myself suffer from certin types of motion sickness, while I have no problem with physical motion, aka planes, boats, and the like, I suffer from static motion sickness from random movement like the current JJ shake, meaning my peripheral vision is static and my concentration is on reticule that has random movement along with random movement of the cockpit, it's highly nauseating.

Edited by DCM Zeus, 14 June 2013 - 06:17 PM.

[Kunae]

Destined, on 14 June 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

Stay on topic please. Either you talk about the mechanics or you don't... but this thread isn't about what you think of a player's opinion/playstyle.

Mind getting rid of the most recent offender/troll?

[NeoFighter]

Not my opinion.....this is on every day video game manuals....fact


Symptoms including dizziness,...,disorientation,..... while playing a video game discontinue use IMMEDIATELY and consult your doctor

Edited by NeoFighter, 14 June 2013 - 08:01 PM.

[MonkeyCheese]

NeoFighter, on 14 June 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

Not my opinion.....this is on every day video game manuals....fact


Symptoms including dizziness,...,disorientation,..... while playing a video game discontinue use IMMEDIATELY and consult your doctor

You troll fails as there was never any problem before this bandaid fix was implemented, and there are other ways to nerf the pop tarts with different mechanics that have nothing to do with screenshake, even no shooting in the air at all is preferable for me than this screenshake.

[Sniper061]

Allright, just played through a couple games in my JR7-K. Honestly, I don't have much of a problem with the JJ shake. I'll go so far as to admit that I had a few beers before sitting down to play, so I *should* be more susceptible to motion sickness but I'm just not getting any. I *can* see where people could have motion sickness issues from it so I could certainly see toning down the HUD shake by a decent amount, but overall, I kinda like it. As a light, I'm not really focusing on the HUD all that much anyways, I tend to more walk my shots into my targets.

Now, here are my specific thoughts in a still slightly drunken but hopefully clear manner:

HUD Shake:

I can see *minor* HUD shake as being part of mechwarrior but nowhere near where it is. Honestly, keeping to cannon, the mechs wouldn't have a true HUD anyways. The HUD would be added to their neural helmet anyways. So since you, the pilot, are moving right along with your HUD, the shaking would be very minor. Same thing applies to our Apache pilots and newer fighter pilot systems now. Their HUD is built into the helmet and not part of the machine itself. The helmet, in turn, is fitted so well to the pilot that any shaking or bumping is not transmitted to the helmet as it is essentially an extension of the pilots head.


Cockpit shake:

Keep it as it is right now. As stated above, the HUD should be separate from the cockpit, so the mech can shake as violently as you would expect but the HUD won't move in crazy ways.


Weapon divergence:

Weapon divergence is where your money is. Light pilots such as myself can easily deal with walking our shots into our targets so it should be a non-issue. It is also, again, somewhat realistic. Say you are trying to fire your laser but your mech is shaking from JJ usage. Your targeting system will have to compensate for the shaking and it can be a bit *off* due to that compensation being a bit behind the curve.



Overall:

Again, *I* have no problem with the shaking, but I can see where a lot of people might. Keep the cockpit shaking and weapon divergence but greatly reduce the HUD vibration. If the weapon divergence is kept in place for the entire time somebody is in the air (even after the JJ have stopped firing), it will keep the annoying poptarts at bay while only negligibly affecting mechs that regularly use JJ for maneuverability (lights and mediums)

[johnyboy420]

you know that pgi is going too fix the shake for the lights and meds they stated that, why you ranting then?

and i just got off work and your going too tell me you don't have your friends looking at these fail posts.

oh and COF should only be on PPC's and gauss

Edited by Niko Snow, 16 June 2013 - 10:35 AM.
Quote Removed

[johnyboy420]

man even mechassault had more balance game play then this game, very very sad

[LastPaladin]

Vectoron, on 04 June 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

Something I have yet to understand is...

If you get motion sick easily.... Why are you playing a piloting/mecha game?

I guess what you have missed in all these threads is that the jj shake is affecting a lot of people who don't get motion sick easily at all. I've never experienced motion sickness on any other game, I love roller coasters, even the Blair Witch didn't bother me at all. But, if I try to play my Spider, I have to stop after 1 or 2 matches or just avoid jumping entirely, because the shake gives me headaches and nausea.

There's also a pavlovian effect that another poster (sorry I forget who) noticed. Since you are physically punished when you do press spacebar, you just start avoiding pressing that key, even when you really should use the jump jets in a situation. If PGI has to go to that length to discourage the use of jj, they should just remove them from the game and adjust the mech variants accordingly so we can use the free tonnage for something useful.