1217 replies to this topic

[Screech]

So can a Jenner variant get ECM now? What if I said pwetty pwease.

[Featherwood]

Those who get sick of JJ-shaking (like me), should not play jumping mechs. That's a good factor to separate pilots into two groups: jumping and crouching
Overall impression of this adjustment is
GOOD WORK!

[Kunae]

Screech, on 04 June 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

So can a Jenner variant get ECM now? What if I said pwetty pwease.

Edit: Misread post.

I doubt it, as they've insisted that the Jenner is a "skirmisher", and thus shouldn't get it.

Edited by Kunae, 04 June 2013 - 05:53 PM.

[Archon Adam Steiner]

This fix will, and has, saved the game. There are enough amorphous 'take cover' shooters out there.

Since the patch, I've seen brawls, LRM support, skirmishing, scouting, and actual ENGAGEMENT of massive war machines. It's been hectic, challenging, and requiring coordination.

This change was needed. People will adapt. Pop-tarts were ruining the game, they truly were.

EDIT: I don't mean to be confrontational, but... motion sickness? Really, guys? For a few of you, maybe. For most? No, not buying it. If flashing PPCs, AC/2 explosion spam to the face, and rampant lasers waving all over aren't giving you seizures or weirding you out, this won't either.

Edited by Arrachtas, 04 June 2013 - 05:56 PM.

[h0wl]

I guess in 3050 there are no computers to adjust for shake like we have in Cannon binoculars NOW. How about making the stability system an inherent component to the mech, a damageable component say built into the mech's head. When damaged the stability component should result in steadily worse aiming for ALL mechs. That way you're not just picking on the jump-jetting mechs. Such a damaged component would make aiming while walking or jump jetting harder...

Needs work guys.

[Tarl Cabot]

Ok, using the testing grounds and Shift F11 to remove the UI, the negative physical effects from the screen shaking was less severe than when viewing both the shaking screen AND the bobbing cross hairs.

1. A huge reduction or eliminate the screen shake.
2. Mild reduction in the cross hair shake
3. Cross hair shake should be used more often for based on other mech actions
4. Was a cone of fire ever even tried?

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 04 June 2013 - 05:53 PM.

[Thorqemada]

Imho the shaking is pretty bad and hectic (the visuals make mad) - to me the Mech should vibrate (aka the Cockpit), making sounds of structural strain and the aiming reticles should work like Drilling in the old game "Oil Imperium".

When you jump the target reticles wander off, the more you jump the faster they wander off, you must compensate the movement with countermovement, eventually you overcompensate and the reticles be way off the target, if not you show skill and deserve a hit.
The Arm should be more critical to wandering off than the Torso - if locked (Arm to Torso) it averages or unlocks temporarily.

Edited by Thorqemada, 04 June 2013 - 06:15 PM.

[Serapth]

Arrachtas, on 04 June 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

EDIT: I don't mean to be confrontational, but... motion sickness? Really, guys? For a few of you, maybe. For most? No, not buying it. If flashing PPCs, AC/2 explosion spam to the face, and rampant lasers waving all over aren't giving you seizures or weirding you out, this won't either.

Count yourself lucky it doesn't affect you, because it really really really sucks. Calling people liars that are reporting it, as many people are, is classless. It's common enough in video games, and its not flashing lights or anything like that. Its the disconnect between the motion on screen and what your brain is processing.

In short, for some of us this new effect is triggering a response in our brains saying "something isn't right here". I linked about it in one of the threads that was shut down earlier. It happens in certain video games only, although only a few have ever affected me ( Dead Island, Space Marine, Rockband: The Beatles and now going back to old FPS games like Doom ). Google any one of those titles and you will see thousands of posts on the subject. MWO just added itself to the list.

Generally it boils down to part of the effect being "off". I would go back and analyse it, but I was noxious for nearly an hour and a half from my only JJ match... so no thanks.

Perhaps most the most ironic part is... I still managed 300+ damage that mesh, you can still shoot straight when falling from the top of your arc, so it doesn't even prevent poptarting, at least for those that it doesnt make sick.

Edited by Serapth, 04 June 2013 - 06:03 PM.

[Nebelfeuer]

Ac 20 on highlander while jumping will not hit a barn
TAG while trying to jumplock (Catapult) for LRMS pure game of luck
missle lock can be unreliable while jumping
Lasers acceptable if you reajust them - direct aiming not possible
PPC while jumping for LOS and mobility - (medium and light behaviour) game of luck
Jumping way more unprecise and annoying instead of fun on llights and meds
Jumpbrawling not possible anymore

stationary Poptart play unaffected since they fire their weapons while falling down.

Major headace after playing 5 matches in a row ( still present now 20 minutes after it)

Conclusion you did hurt the wrong aspects of the game with this. Undo it as fast as possible. If you want to prevent poptartsniping prevent boating and pinpointdamage and not jumping. Jumping is fun and not an inbalanced gamemechanic.

Here is a list of my mechs that you made frustrating and unhealthy to play:
TBT 7J 1x ERPPC , 1xLRM15, TAG , JJ
SDR 5D 2x ML ,1xTAG, JJ
JR 7K 3xML, 1xTAG, 1xLRM10, JJ
BJ 1 1x LBX10, 4xML , JJ
CPLT C4 2xLRM15, 1xML, 1x TAG, JJ
HGN 733C 1xAC20, 1xLRM20, 1xTAG, 2xSSRM2, JJ

None of these builds is an extreme alpha poptardsniper ,but they are - sorry were - fun to play and my favourite designs.
The only non JJ mech that really found a place in my heart is a HUNCHBACK SP. So could you please teall me why any of these builds needed to be nerfed into total unplayability (motionsickness)?

I definitely will not change my builds into groundcrawlers since they are not as much fun to mee( yes I tried all mechs).
If it stays anywhere near the currrent JJ behaviour it will be a definite dealbreaker for me.

Sidenote: I never had problems fighting enemy poptarters I just did not like to have these useless nonsupporting egosnipers in my team.

Edited by Nebelfeuer, 04 June 2013 - 06:07 PM.

[Vaan]

Arrachtas, on 04 June 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

This fix will, and has, saved the game. There are enough amorphous 'take cover' shooters out there.

Since the patch, I've seen brawls, LRM support, skirmishing, scouting, and actual ENGAGEMENT of massive war machines. It's been hectic, challenging, and requiring coordination.

This change was needed. People will adapt. Pop-tarts were ruining the game, they truly were.

EDIT: I don't mean to be confrontational, but... motion sickness? Really, guys? For a few of you, maybe. For most? No, not buying it. If flashing PPCs, AC/2 explosion spam to the face, and rampant lasers waving all over aren't giving you seizures or weirding you out, this won't either.

Featherwood, on 04 June 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

Those who get sick of JJ-shaking (like me), should not play jumping mechs. That's a good factor to separate pilots into two groups: jumping and crouching
Overall impression of this adjustment is
GOOD WORK!

Very good work PGI!!! You saved us!!!

[Polojilarious]

I've only played around with my treb in the testing ground but my feelings on the shake are thus:

The background and cockpit shake are fine. Even a bit more shake would probably alright.

The crosshair shake, however, is way too extreme. For the most part, my eyes are focused on my crosshairs while I'm playing, and having them jump around about a half inch per frame without any motion blur is super nauseating.

Either tone it down, or change when it applies.

I think it could work well if the shake started strong and then lessened the longer you jumped. So you'd have massive shake for a second upon taking off, but it'd smooth out over the course of the jump if you held the spacebar down. On the other hand, fluttering your jumpjets either to hover at the peak of a jump or to get a tighter turn radius on the ground would totally wreck your aim.

Call it the mech's gyro shifting to compensate for the upward thrust. Maybe it takes longer to smooth out on heavier mechs due to their increased momentum.

Regardless, It'd make poptarting harder without making the rest of us sick.

[DeaconW]

Arrachtas, on 04 June 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

This fix will, and has, saved the game. There are enough amorphous 'take cover' shooters out there.

Since the patch, I've seen brawls, LRM support, skirmishing, scouting, and actual ENGAGEMENT of massive war machines. It's been hectic, challenging, and requiring coordination.

This change was needed. People will adapt. Pop-tarts were ruining the game, they truly were.

THIS^^^

[Jan Spengler]

Motion sickness? Really?

Might be a sign you need to go outside and get some fresh air.

The fix is PERFECT!!! I love it!

Been jumping around with my spider all evening with no ill effects.

Nothing except the sweet lamentations of a thousand QQ poptarts.


THANK YOU, THANK YOU PGI

[DeaconW]

h0wl, on 04 June 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

That way you're not just picking on the jump-jetting mechs.

The whole point was to pick on the JJ mechs. Maybe need to back it off a bit for mediums and lights.

[Serapth]

Jan Spengler, on 04 June 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

Motion sickness? Really?

Might be a sign you need to go outside and get some fresh air.

The fix is PERFECT!!! I love it!

Been jumping around with my spider all evening with no ill effects.

Nothing except the sweet lamentations of a thousand QQ poptarts.


THANK YOU, THANK YOU PGI

Yes, because people who could play the game without issue, but are suddenly getting sick... its the amount of outside time they get.

The level of maturity in this community is making itself incredibly clear with this issue thats for sure. Not that I am shocked in the least.

[StealthAssassin]

Thanks for NERFING lights!

This needs to be either taken off lights completely, or minimized to 1/4 or less of what it is now. Wasn't the idea of this to nerf poptarts? Terrible oversight on this patch.

[White Bear 84]

The shake makes me want to vomit rainbows..

..because poptarts are no more!!

[DodgerH2O]

Tried out the changes on all my mechs with JJs (minus catapults). This encompasses light, medium, and heavy.

Found the mechanics acceptable as a balance against 'poptarting' but the screen shake might be too much. Doesn't personally make me queasy but it does seem to throw me 'off' somehow after prolonged periods of heavy JJ use.

Jumpjets no longer feel as fun either. Which is a minor gripe, but the major reason I use JJs. Not for in-game advantage but because flying is amazing. It feels much less like flying and more like launching a rocket. Not graceful anymore, but a way to propel yourself from point A to point B.

Reticle shake is fine, random aiming is just strange, honestly. I had my first FF incident in ages because my arm lasers shot an inch away from where the reticle was. I expect intuitively that if the reticle is shaking I should still be able to use it, so again, it just "feels" off though mechanically I have no problems with it for balance purposes.

[Arcturious]

Take jump jets out of the game. Seriously, new players coming in will equip these thinking they are going to be useful. All this will do is drive people away from the game. Canon variants with jump jets can just get a few more heat sinks to compensate.

I've listed numerous reasons through the forums already why this is a bad idea to have shake in the game. At competitive levels, this makes Jump jets completely unusable.

1) Lights can't target components. Jump jets bleed off speed and create situations where you can be easily killed. This used to be balanced by the fact you would land pointing away from the enemy. Now however you have to land facing them in order to get a hit in. This opens your CT to fire, even a split second is enough to kill you.

2) Brawling with Jump jets is a death sentence. A good 2x AC20 Jagermech will core your highlander or blackjack out in 2-3 shots. Jump jets could assist you with spreading damage to your legs or arms in a running fight across terrain. Now however they can focus your components while your damage is spread over their mech randomly.

Basically, you have turned all direct fire weapons on mechs with Jump Jets into LRM's. The enemy will always have an advantage over you.

There is no reason to take a highlander now instead of an Atlas. You are tons lighter with no benefit. Same with all jump jet mechs.

The only competitive solution is to take jump jets off your mech and go for a bigger engine, more heat sinks or larger weapons.

To those claiming poptarts, please use your brains. This doesn't effect just poptarts. All uses if jump jets are void. You don't want to use them to get into a fight sooner, as you will die without the edge they give in manoeuvring. You can't use them to escape, as you are giving the enemy free shots at you. At high levels of play a single free shot is too many.

This is not a balancing change, it is in the same order as taking collisions out of the game.

Personally, I have mechs finely tuned with engines bought around certain weight expectations. Now that I have to remove jump jets, I will need to buy new engines for these mechs, new equipment etc. This potentially has put me back 30+ million cbills for all those XL engines. Over my 40+ mechs I have not a single poptart. All my mechs with jump jets used them positionally in brawls or to fight running engagements that are just not possible now.

Remove the change, or remove jump jets. They are dead weight for high levels of play where every shot missed counts and can get you or a team mate killed.

Edit: To all those saying they are having more fun now. Nobody is saying that this change is making the game meta less fun for people who didn't use jump jets in the first place. I'm sure all our brawls are going to be just as fun now. The game simply won't have jump jets in it as a natural progression of this change. If that's the direction PGI wants to go, then great. As I've said, I'll adapt and just drop jump jets. I however personally liked jump jets, used them all the time. I would like to see them in the game, at the moment though they are a liability and anyone who takes their builds seriously will drop them.

Edited by Arcturious, 04 June 2013 - 09:47 PM.

[J0anna]

The screen shake has to go and the target cross hair shake should be reduced. After a few games, the screen shake just gives me a headache. Not to mention, how could you possibly pull off a DFA when collisions comes back? Hell even removing the ability to shoot while jump jetting is better than this. I don't poptart, but preferred jump brawling (i.e. using quick bursts of JJ's to quickly maneuver around or over my opponent) - now that just leads to headaches after a few games. Game is almost unplayable atm (unless you restrict yourself to a ground-only mech). As usual, you went way too far with your 'balancing'. I just take a break until you fix your game.