146 replies to this topic

[Squirtbox]

It's sad when MG ammo is more dangerous to the mech carrying it than the enemy.

Oh look a ton of my MG ammo just got crit.....gg guys....

[Roland]

Everything about the OP in this thread is terrible and wrong.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

The other night I had the unique pleasure of having an AFK Stalker all to myself while piloting the SpiderBro. 4 machine guns of fury working at point blank on the left back torso, then the right. I decided to time it with a stopwatch and it took about 1:19 seconds to blow each shoulder with arm off. Nobody ever came and stopped me and at the end I was surprised I had only done about 180ish damage total to the stalker in order to kill it, where as my dual LBX jager will lay out 450+ damage of hurt to similar mechs and not see a kill.

Moral of the story is, I think MGs are fine and pull an avg of 80-100 damage per match with my MG spider. < insert cool story SpiderBro comments here >

Edited by lockwoodx, 07 June 2013 - 08:10 AM.

[Roland]

lockwoodx, on 07 June 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

The other night I had the unique pleasure of having an AFK Stalker all to myself while piloting the SpiderBro. 4 machine guns of fury working at point blank on the left back torso, then the right. I decided to time it with a stopwatch and it took about 1:19 seconds to blow each shoulder with arm off. Nobody ever came and stopped me and at the end I was surprised I had only done about 180ish damage total to the stalker in order to kill it, where as my dual LBX jager will lay out 450+ damage of hurt to similar mechs and not see a kill.

Moral of the story is, I think MGs are fine and pull an avg of 80-100 damage per match with my MG spider. < insert cool story SpiderBro comments here >

You just described a story where it took you nearly a minute and a half to kill an AFK mech. And you think that is good.

And then you describe the fact that you average less than 100 damage per game. And you think that is good.

Also.. just so ya know, the LBX Jagermech is also a terrible configuration. LBX are not good weapons.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Roland, on 07 June 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

You just described a story where it took you nearly a minute and a half to kill an AFK mech. And you think that is good.

And then you describe the fact that you average less than 100 damage per game. And you think that is good.

Also.. just so ya know, the LBX Jagermech is also a terrible configuration. LBX are not good weapons.

How "good" a pilot is, isn't determined by his "damage", son. If that was the case you'd have to rename your mech to "Damaged Goods".

[Galen Crayn]

Quote

And how many AC2's can you realistically fit on the ballistics Spider?

Here's a hint: If that same mech had energy hardpoints, it would be 1/12 the number of small lasers (not counting the weight for AC2 ammo). And the AC2 doesn't do 12 times the damage...

WTF.... You really compare a small laser with an ac2? The ac 2 makes 4 times more dps and has 12 times the range of a small laser. The AC2 is worth every ton!!!!!!!

The machinegun is fine as it is. i use them on 1 or 2 mech myself and like it. No need to buff them

Edited by Galen Crayn, 07 June 2013 - 08:23 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Roland, on 07 June 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

You just described a story where it took you nearly a minute and a half to kill an AFK mech. And you think that is good.

And then you describe the fact that you average less than 100 damage per game. And you think that is good.

Also.. just so ya know, the LBX Jagermech is also a terrible configuration. LBX are not good weapons.

Basically their post is worth a non-reply Roland. Apparently bad+bad = amazing, either that or its sarcasm. The truth has already set us free.

Edited by General Taskeen, 07 June 2013 - 08:22 AM.

[Zerberus]

GingerBang, on 06 June 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

They rock. They do tons of damage to internals already. Any more and they will be a small laser without a heat penalty. Machines have always been nothing more than a spare tonnage filler. I think all the CoD players hear the phrase machine gun, and think of the damage they do to human flesh, not tons and tons of steel armor. a machine doesn't do {Richard Cameron} to a solid steel wall. Why do you think the US Army has anti-tank artillery, and not just 6 guys with M249's.

I agree with your general sentiment, but this is both factually not entirely accurate, and not entirely applicable either

Baseline RL facts (irrelevant becasue mechwarrior, but MW is not the misconception here)
A 5.56 Nato FMJ round will penetrate almost a 1/4 " of steel plate. That`s an M-16 Assault rifle, not a Machine gun. The system weighs on average 9 pounds, up tpo 15 depending on attachments.

A .50 caliber round from a Browing M2-machine gun or Barrett M82 Sniper rifle will EASILY go through an inch of steel plate, and there are AP, HEAP, and HEAPI rounds available, which will all shoot molten copper through about 4 inches of steel plate. Not enough to take out a tank in a single shot, but in fact more than enough to knock out a HMV or similar APC, especially with continuous fire.

A Browning M2 weighs 83 punds, and only about 130 with it`s tripod

As we know , as caliber size increases, range and penetration do (in RL, not BT, where the reverse applies). A 500 pound machine gun would be a 1 or even 1.5 caliber, which is a 25 to 35mm round. Something along the lines of a Oerlikon L85 20MM autocannon on steroids (or essentially half of twin cannon part of an Oerlikon GDF-001).

In essence, an offensive version of this CIWS:
http://en.wikipedia....lver_Gun_System

Loaded with non frangible rounds for offensive use, that cannon would easily go through 4 feet of steel plate, thicker than ANY normal wall, and even most Bunkers, at a range about double that of an AC/2.

ATA (anti-tank-artillery) is a concept that essentially died around World War 2. Modern armies use planes for that role, or tech like Javelin missiles.
________________________________________

This concludes todays lesson on why Our universe is not the BT universe and therefore most arguments from our universe are invalid in BT discussions.

PS: With all due respect, if you`re going to argue modern military equipment and tactics, please educate yourself more in depth on the subject than the SPC-4 who only gets told what he needs to know, a few seconds before he needs to know it. Modern military tactics revolve around combined forces, not "the army has to do everything by themself"... WW2 ended almost 60 years ago, and to be honest having explain this kind of rudimentary firearms and tactics basics one day after the 59th anniversary of D-Day is a disgrace to the men and women who DID know what they were doing and dies so that you could spew CoD "facts".

[Pinselborste]

machine guns need a redesign, maybe make them work like a faster autocanon with low range.

something like 4 shots per second at 0.3 damage per shot, maybe even give it 0.1 heat per shot.
give it 500 rounds per ton and magically, its worth to be used and has the same damage per ammo ton as other ballistics.

[stjobe]

lockwoodx, on 07 June 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

The other night I had the unique pleasure of having an AFK Stalker all to myself while piloting the SpiderBro. 4 machine guns of fury working at point blank on the left back torso, then the right. I decided to time it with a stopwatch and it took about 1:19 seconds to blow each shoulder with arm off. Nobody ever came and stopped me and at the end I was surprised I had only done about 180ish damage total to the stalker in order to kill it, where as my dual LBX jager will lay out 450+ damage of hurt to similar mechs and not see a kill.

Moral of the story is, I think MGs are fine and pull an avg of 80-100 damage per match with my MG spider. < insert cool story SpiderBro comments here >

All right, let's examine that a bit:

Stalker STK-5S stock rear side torso armor: 14 points.
STK-5S side torso internal structure: 45 points.

It took you 1:19, or 79 seconds to blow it off, which means you did 0.75 DPS to it - I sure hope you weren't shooting with more than a single MG!

(45+14) * 2 = 118 damage. Where did the other 72 damage go? Well, I guess he was probably up-armored from stock, so let's go with 180 damage like you said. 180 / (79*2) = 1.14 DPS. I guess you were firing more than one MG after all.

Either way, killing an AFK Stalker from behind in 79 seconds isn't what I'd describe as "devastating effects", and by no means is it an indication of the MG being "fine".

Edit: Oops, the STK-5s only has 36 points of IS on the side torso, putting your DPS at 0.63 for the side torso and 0.56 for the kill.

Four machine guns of fury you said? They should be at 0.8 * 4, or 3.2 DPS, not 0.5 - 0.6. Your story doesn't pass muster.

Edited by stjobe, 07 June 2013 - 08:39 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Roland, on 07 June 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

Also.. just so ya know, the LBX Jagermech is also a terrible configuration. LBX are not good weapons.

I guess you don't enjoy the satisfaction of making it RAIN until the bonus XP comes POURING DOWN from Mah'CRITZ popping fizzzive COMPONENTS at ONCE like the BRAVE ILL TAILOR of a BX to the L as the DUB in mah name when I'm PLAY'IN DIS GAME and when YOU'RE feeling the SHAME, DON'T come to ME with the BLAME, cuz you JUST another name. Peace!

Edited by lockwoodx, 07 June 2013 - 08:34 AM.

[stjobe]

lockwoodx, on 07 June 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

I guess you don't enjoy the satisfaction of making it RAIN until the bonus XP comes POURING DOWN from Mah'CRITZ popping fizzzive COMPONENTS at ONCE like the BRAVE ILL TAILOR of a BX to the L as the DUB in mah name when I'm PLAY'IN DIS GAME and when YOU'RE feeling the SHAME, DON'T come to ME with the BLAME, cuz you JUST another name. Peace!

While I appreciate the ebonics, you should perhaps be made aware that critting out internal components does not reward any XP - only destroying the section does.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

stjobe, on 07 June 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

While I appreciate the ebonics, you should perhaps be made aware that critting out internal components does not reward any XP - only destroying the section does.

When the LBX crits in TWOS, all flavors of wrong happen to YOU.

[Esplodin]

stjobe, on 07 June 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

Four machine guns of fury you said? They should be at 0.8 * 4, or 3.2 DPS, not 0.5 - 0.6. Your story doesn't pass muster.

Was probably sitting outside 90m and spraying bullets everywhere cus cone of dakka. Or he was firing while jumping, which engages the RNG unit extra hard.

[Roland]

lockwoodx, on 07 June 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

I guess you don't enjoy the satisfaction of making it RAIN until the bonus XP comes POURING DOWN from Mah'CRITZ popping fizzzive COMPONENTS at ONCE like the BRAVE ILL TAILOR of a BX to the L as the DUB in mah name when I'm PLAY'IN DIS GAME and when YOU'RE feeling the SHAME, DON'T come to ME with the BLAME, cuz you JUST another name. Peace!

In all seriousness, you described a terribad spider config, and then said, "Hey, I killed an AFK mech, which was really great because normally I get much higher damage in my garbage-boy Jagermech, and don't get any kills!"

You know why you don't get any kills in your terrible LBX Jagermech? Because it's a terrible LBX Jagermech. That's why LBX are terrible. They spread damage all over the place and don't don't perform their primary function, which is the same as every other weapon in the game, which is killing mechs.

Weapons which are bad at killing mechs are BAD WEAPONS.

On some level, I feel bad posting this, because I know I'm coming off as an arrogant ***, but on the other hand I'm kind of beyond caring at this point. There are a number of folks who seemingly fail to grasp the most basic aspects of how this game works, and talking nice to them doesn't seem to work in terms of them learning the game mechanics.

I'll never fault someone who is new at playing for not knowing how stuff works right out of the gate, but holy crap, some folks are seemingly willfully ignorant, and just flat out deny the obvious when it comes to effectiveness in game. And I can't possibly understand why. Seriously, there is no reason for anyone to defend Machine Guns as anything other than terribad weapons currently.

[tenderloving]

lockwoodx, on 07 June 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

How "good" a pilot is, isn't determined by his "damage", son. If that was the case you'd have to rename your mech to "Damaged Goods".

Did you eat paint chips as a kid?

I kind of wish we could see ELO, so I'll know how to react when people post nonsense about their MG and LBX builds, or other BS. You admit that it took you over a minute to blow through a torso, and said that was "fine."

80-100 damage average is horrible. Running and standing on a cap point doesn't make you a good pilot either. There is a continuum of player skill, and I would say based on your post you are on the far end of this continuum. (And not the good end.)

I'm not an elitist most of the time, but if I could see your ELO I could at least think "okay well that explains things."

Edited by tenderloving, 07 June 2013 - 08:58 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Esplodin, on 07 June 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

Was probably sitting outside 90m and spraying bullets everywhere cus cone of dakka.

Da best shoota I eva made, dat iz. Loadza barrulz, so dat it’s ded shooty. ‘Sept dat wun, ‘cos dat’s da skorcha, dat’s burny insted. Yeah, good an’ propa. An’ da bullitz is ‘splosiv...dey goez boom inna fings wot you’z shootin.’ An’ dat button dere...dat’s da best bit. Wot it duz, see, iz...iz...oh, zog. Nah, its nuffin’ boss. Nah, you’z don’t need ta see wot dat button duz...‘onist. Don’t push it!
- Last words

4MG 1FL no jets is mah SpiderBro.

Edited by lockwoodx, 07 June 2013 - 08:59 AM.

[verybad]

I left them on my K2 just 'cause I like the sound of 'em. *shrugs* I like them as they are, I do wish there were AI PBIs for us to shoot up, but really, MGs aren't an anti-armor weapon, and I like them more as they are. Let us buy PBIs to defend bases or captured mines with immobile heavy weapons platforms (eg a PPC Gunner) as modules that take 25% damage from regular weapons and 500% damage from flamers, MGs, and maybe 250% damage from LBX, 100% from pulse lasers.

[Pinselborste]

verybad, on 07 June 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

I left them on my K2 just 'cause I like the sound of 'em. *shrugs* I like them as they are, I do wish there were AI PBIs for us to shoot up, but really, MGs aren't an anti-armor weapon, and I like them more as they are. Let us buy PBIs to defend bases or captured mines with immobile heavy weapons platforms (eg a PPC Gunner) as modules that take 25% damage from regular weapons and 500% damage from flamers, MGs, and maybe 250% damage from LBX, 100% from pulse lasers.

this is a game with only mechs, so MGs have to damage mechs or they could aswell remove them together with the flamer and the lbx.

[Lil Cthulhu]

Mr Terribad, on 07 June 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

I lol'd right there. A dragon with AC2's is god tier. Oh my.

My faith in this post just died.

I am a firm believer that L2P is an acceptable answer to the OP.