1263 replies to this topic

[Suprentus]

Rippthrough, on 11 June 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

You do know you're in a thread about balance right?
Poor troll is poor.

Ugggghhhhh, do you even have any concept of balance? What part of my post didn't you understand regarding balance? What does it take to fire those neurons around in that brain of yours to comprehend any sort of point?

[PanzerMagier]

Kitane, on 11 June 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

1) Treat ER PPC and PPCs as a one type of weapon, ER LL and LL too.

2) Set the PPC limit to 2, 3 PPC + Gauss builds should already be affected by a penalty.

3) AC20 should be limited to one, with a significant heat penalty for firing two at once.

4) 150% heat limit is not going to have any noticeable effect on the game. Most builds will never get that high even if they tried.

Damn I wish the update looked like this. Why don't they just bring ppc's and er ppc's back to their original heat? Is it too much to ask for? I loved using them back then. It looks like I'll never be able to enjoy using ppc's again since they'll stay broken.

[HarmAssassin]

The only good thing they mentioned was the damage taken while overheating... but 150% is WAY too high and will affect very few people. Should be lowered to 125% (or maybe even 100% then scale the damage so you take more for each % point you have above 100).

As for all the other ideas listed - no.

Once again the devs have completely missed the point.

Penalizing people who use multiples of the same weapon (and those mechs that have highly specialized hardpoints like all energy, all ballistic, etc.) is the wrong way to go. If you have 9 energy slots, and find a way to fire all 9 without overheating, you should be rewarded not penalized.

You put a 9 energy slot mech into the game, and now you're going to penalize people for using it??? If you don't want people firing all 9 at the same time, just lower the heat cap or put in real penalties for overheating and PROBLEM SOLVED.

Instead you are going to penalize those players who don't use macros to achieve perfect firing timing?

High Heat Energy Weapons - just put their heat values back up to where they should have been all along (PPC = 10 , ERPPC = 15). If you don't think this is enough of a drawback, then lower the heat cap for all mechs.

Pulse lasers - all you had to do is reduce the number of pulses or increase the range and pulse weapons would have been viable again. Instead you've made them hotter - they were already not worth the weight/damage/heat/range, and now you've increased the damage but also the heat... so ... fixed... nothing. They are still not worth the weight / damage / heat / range.

Did any of your development team ever even play any of the previous mechwarrior or battletech games? I'm guessing the answer to be "no".

Not taking damage until you hit 150% ??? I don't think I've ever hit 150% even on my ERPPC boat. In order for an ERPPC boat to hit 150% means firing all 6 while at 89% heat ASSUMING THEY HAVE NO HEAT SINKS. All they need is 5 double heatsinks and it becomes impossible for a 6 ERPPC mech to generate 150% heat unless they override.

Adding "mystery heat" for firing too many of the same weapon at the same time is just.... DUMB. Please don't take this the wrong way, but what are you guys smoking? Whatever it is, you need to stop. Programming while intoxicated isn't working for you.

If you go over 100%, you should get hurt. Period. If you allow the shutdown you get hurt less than if you override, but everyone over 100% should get hurt.

This game just keeps getting more and more broken.

Thank goodness BF4 alpha is about to start... then no more MWO! Which is really too bad, since this game had so much promise and the community waited so long for it. Any idea who is making the next mechwarrior game in the franchise? I think they should start now.

Edited by HarmAssassin, 11 June 2013 - 02:38 PM.

[MisterPlanetarian]

Chavette, on 11 June 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

They shouldn't, the alpha fix must apply for all weapons, missiles, ballistic, even the ones that dont produce heat at all.

This is nonsense btw.


AC20, LRM/SRM sure since they already have high heat per shot. Stuff like Gauss or AC5/UAC5 becomes useless if you freaking overheat shooting 2 of them on the ilya or whatever mech you want.


The proposed system is ok, breaking up alphas into volley fire makes alot more difference than some people like to admit. They just need to make exceptions for high energy boating builds like for example the Awesome 9M, 8Q and the Hunchback 4P

Edited by MisterPlanetarian, 11 June 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[keith]

HarmAssassin, on 11 June 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

The only good thing they mentioned was the damage taken while overheating... but 150% is WAY too high and will affect very few people. Should be lowered to 125% (or maybe even 100% then scale the damage so you take more for each % point you have above 100).

As for all the other ideas listed - no.

Penalizing people who use multiples of the same weapon (and those mechs that have highly specialized hardpoints like all energy, all ballistic, etc.) is the wrong way to go. If you have 9 energy slots, and find a way to fire all 9 without overheating, you should be rewarded not penalized.

You put a 9 energy slot mech into the game, and now you're going to penalize people for using it??? If you don't want people firing all 9 at the same time, just lower the heat cap or put in real penalties for overheating and PROBLEM SOLVED.

Instead you are going to penalize those players who don't use macros to achieve perfect firing timing?

Pulse lasers - all you had to do is reduce the number of pulses or increase the range and pulse weapons would have been viable again. Yet, once again you have decided to move even farther away from canon.

Did any of your development team ever even play any of the previous mechwarrior or battletech games? I'm guessing the answer to be "no".

This game just keeps getting more and more broken.

Thank goodness BF4 alpha is about to start... then no more MWO!

yup they are taking away a way in wish ppl want to play because other ppl don't like that style of play. this is y i am starting to think PGI are being bad game devs, never have i felt like a game dev have tried so hard to push me away from a game IP i love so much by making such horrible discussion in a game. BT has always been about customize your mech the way u choose, i choose to min max mine. other do not feel the same way, and i get penalized by bad game devs for choosing the best way in this style of game. shame on PGI

[Butane9000]

Oh, here's some additional feedback: The sooner you get these heat fixes in the better.

[Fut]

MisterPlanetarian, on 11 June 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

The proposed system is ok, breaking up alphas into volley fire makes alot more difference than some people like to admit. They just need to make exceptions for high energy boating builds like Awesome 9M, 8Q and the Hunchback 4P

Perhaps make it so those specific variants have a "quirk" that negates the penalty for high energy boating.

[deforce]

i really think this is going to limit the # of efficient mechs to a even smaller list than before.

[WolvesX]

Fut, on 11 June 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

Perhaps make it so those specific variants have a "quirk" that negates the penalty for high energy boating.

More more and more rules we need! YES!

[Mokou]

IMHO SSRM need aim feature - if u aim to CT and shot SSRM - they will going for CT, if LT to LT etc.
If u shot SSRM and aim to other mech or terrain they will going for random locked mech joints.

[SirLANsalot]

Mokou, on 11 June 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

******** it, stop drive only stalker or what kind of mech u all use?
Two of my AWS have 3xPPC(and 3xERPPC) on stock loadout.
Can u read it THREE PPC AND THREE ERPPC ON STOCK LOADOUT.
Not two, not one, not four. Leave us AWS alone!

read the whole post....noob. Mechs would have there limiter increased BASED on there stock models. The AWS would be untouched, but 3x PPC Highlanders and stalkers ect ect would be heavily hit, as the system is intended.

(he is referring to my post here http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2442752 )

Edited by SirLANsalot, 11 June 2013 - 02:32 PM.

[Jojobird]

Definitely a step in the right direction. I'd suggest ER and standard weapons count as "same weapon" for the purpose of heat penalties. 150 % seems a bit high to me, but we'll see how it plays out, combined with the heat penalty. Good stuff!

[BP Raven]

Good for seeing and trying to address the problem, but extremely poor solution that, as mentioned before in this thread, is a band-aid fix at best and doesn't address the underlying issue.

I was thinking of buying some more MCs so i could expand my mech bays, definately not going to do so now. I have enough cbills that i can sell and re buy chassis if needed.

[Padic]

Is the weapon-threshold going to be universal? Or on a per chassis/variant basis? It seems like it could be an excellent knob for buffing/nerfing less and more popular variants.

Awesomes, for example, might deserve a more "alpha-friendly" threshold than Stalkers.

[Boogie Man]

Captain Katawa, on 11 June 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

How about one PPC mechs?
What if my mech runs medlasers + a single PPC?

Mechs that run a single PPC will use that PPC for what it was meant for.. longer range engagements. They will use all of those other weapons on their mech once the enemy is closer and in range of them. PPC should be undesirable to fire in a close range brawl since it is essentially a long range sniping weapon. The best way to accomplish that is to make it heat inefficient compared to shorter range weapons. Right now a PPC is the exact same efficiency as medium lasers so there is not much reason to use medium lasers at 200m when you can just keep firing that PPC.

[BlackDrakon]

SRM'S PAUL!!! SRM'S!!! When are you going to fix the SRM's?!?!??!

Cmon, there are a lot of topics and posts (some started by me) about how inneffective they are for brawling and skirmishing purposes, and still, theres no word from you on this matter.

Can we plz get a heads up? are you at least looking at them?

[stjobe]

I apologize in advance for the harsh language contained within this post, but enough is enough. I can't sit idly by any longer watching you destroy your own game.

With that out of the way, hold on to your hats, this isn't going to be pretty...

SSRM changes
So, you finally admit what we've been telling your for half a year now, that SSRMS hit the joints between locations and therefore splash damage over more than one location - in effect letting every hit other than arms damage CT? The change is welcome, and overdue by several months. Glad you've come to your senses.

Flamer changes
A damage boost. You know they're not working correctly right now, right? They're not heating the enemy. Pretty major flaw if you ask me. Giving them more damage, believe it or not, does not fix that problem.

MG changes
Good. Now get rid of the spread and they may actually become semi-useful.

Pulse Lasers
No, no, no, no. No. If you're going to adjust how they work, do that. Don't nerf them first for a couple of months and then implement the other changes later. Just don't. Oh, and LPL generating more heat than a PPC? Get outa here, have you completely forgotten about this little boardgame called BattleTech? Incidentally, all the pulse laser family really needs is lowered beam time.

Heat damage at high heat levels
150% heat. Really? What's the point of the 100% heat threshold again?
Implement the new penalty if you want, but make it start at 100%, not freaking 150%. You're basically giving the high-heat alpha builds a free alpha if you let them go above 100%.

Heat penalty
The final evidence you do not read these forums at all. Nobody, but nobody has ever suggested a lower heat cap without also suggesting an increased dissipation rate. That you mention one but not the other shows you are just flailing about here. Stop flailing and re-think this. Perhaps read one of the many, many threads on the subject if you're short of ideas.

The proposed idea is simply too idiotic to even comment on. Don't implement it. It's moronic. It's bad. It doesn't help the problem, it actually makes the problem worse. It is, perhaps and arguably, the dumbest idea you've ever presented for this game.

Just go back to the drawing board and think about lowered heat cap in conjunction with higher heat dissipation rates. It would fix half of your game. The other half would be fixed with the introduction of limits to convergence and/or limited random spread.

If you've read this far (I guess chances are you haven't read it at all) I again apologize for the language used. However, I think it's needed to communicate the magnitude of fail you are about to commit.

[ThePieMaker]

The amount of the same type of weapons that can be fired without heat penalties should be something like this:
PPC/ERPPC(make em both count as the same weapon) = 2
Large Lasers/ER Large Laser should be 3-4
Large Pulse Laser should be 4-5 (pulse lasers are meant to be brawling weapons right? so make them have an advantage over normal Large Lasers)
Mediums should be 6 as is.
MPL should have no limit (again to highlight that is it a brawling weapons)
Smalls/SPL should have no limit
Ac/20 should be 1
SRM6 should have a limit of 3
SRM4 should have limit of 5
SRM2....what the heck no one uses em anyway...no limit
SSRM2 should have limit of 3-4
LRM20 limit of 1
LRM15 limit of 2
LRM10 no limit
LRM5 no limit

[Bunko]

What a silly system. Just return the weapon heat levels to TT. Smaller weapons will have lesser heat resulting is allowing more boating ( hence 6 ML rule ) and larger weapons will have more heat resulting is fewer boating ( hence 3 PPC rule ).

Smaller Laser weapons are 25% hotter than TT right now.
Bigger Laser weapons are 25% cooler than TT right now.

Just use the system that has been in place for almost 30 years now, that includes heat penalties btw.

[Nainko]

Paul Inouye said:

Heat Damage at High Heat Levels
We now have a system in test that will apply damage to your Mech’s internal center torso if your Mech exceeds 150% of its tolerable heat level. While your Mech is above 150% heat, it will take damage over time. Once your Mech has cooled below 150%, it will no longer take heat damage. Be careful with that override button or high heat alphas when you’re near your max heat threshold.

150% ? Sorry but this is ridiculous. Where is the penalty for not beeing able to manage your heat ? Where is the advantage for the players who are able to control their heat managment.

There is only one Build that i imagine which can go over 150% anyway. A 6 PPC / ER-PPC Stalker. But this build will never shoot again all 6 PPC again, now you force this build to shoot two series of 3 PPC to get no penalty, thanks that you delivered the introduction for this right with your post.

If you would make it al least 120%, i would like it. But 150% is way to weak to scare anybody of going overheat with his PPC Boat. At 150% there should only one thing happen automaticly. Reactor explosion, nothing else. This is only a penaly for extreme NEW players who have been killed by a PPC boat several times and test them now by themselves.

Please, i beg you, to take the resource HEAT seriously. Heat is the Ammonition of all Energy Weapons. But for the very cold PPC/ER-PPC (i hope they will et their heat back....PPC was 10, ER-PPC was 15!!!) this is nothing that harms them seriously.

This is no patch, it only makes it more difficult for new Mechwarriors to understand heat managment.

It could be so simple, but this is way to complicated for your beloved casual gamers.