1263 replies to this topic

[Tennex]

Haradim, on 11 June 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

I think it would be useful if PGI clarified whether the firing thresholds are applied to weapon types globally, or per weapon type per variant.

The latter seems like it would cause far fewer headaches in the future as more mechs and weapons are added, but it's not very clear what the specifics are.

for whatever reason, they are basing it off the chainfire switch rate. which itself was completely arbitrary.

[Carrioncrows]

If you haven't already Paul: Watch:

http://mwomercs.com/...rior-balancing/

[Cylence]

I still think this is the wrong way to go.
High damage alpha strikes by themselves aren't the issue - it's that they all hit the same point and that they can be done repeatedly without penalty (other than shutdown). Slow down weapon convergence, and have high heat levels add a divergence value. Reduce speed and turn rates at higher levels, and add damage over 100% capacity.

The same rules then apply to everyone. Spend time lining up your shot, and you're more likely to hit the spot you're aiming at. Quick fire, and your different weapons will hit multiple locations. Heat up too much, and your shots are less accurate, and you are less maneuverable to line them up. Keep pressing your heat, and hurt yourself.

[Ngamok]

As others have said, 150% is too high. 125% is better (you get a 10% bonus in your mech trees so it has to be above that).

[Unbound Inferno]

Heat Penalties yes; how you are doing it - no. Oh, heck no.

That is just a bad idea. Just sums up to a band-aid over the main issue of the heat threshold, dissipation and lack of real deterrents to running hot.

Those problems need to be fixed, not adding another band-aid to encourage a slightly different build with the same issues.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I think the Awesome 8Q and the Hunchback 4P are the only Mechs that can mount 7+ Medium Lasers (edit - The BJ, too as mentioned by Deathlike)... and making a Swayback stagger some Lasers isn't going to irreparably harm the Medium Mech category, especially if you can just swap for a MPL or two to bypass the 6 laser limit... I love Swaybacks, and this is totally doable.

Just shoot the 6 in the shoulder, then fire the arms half a second later... I think ->

So... Q: Does the 0.5 second countdown begin once a laser is fired, or after the beam ceases? At this time, I'm kind of assuming it means 0.5 seconds after the beam is initially fired...

Edited by Prosperity Park, 11 June 2013 - 12:29 PM.

[Wildstreak]

Paul Inouye said:

Machine Guns will be going from 0.08 damage per bullet to 0.1 damage per bullet. (June 18th Patch)

Don't understand this for the following reason. As seen on weapon tests I did, all Ballisitcs need just over 1 ton of ammo to CT core an Atlas even the MG.
MG - 2120 shots
AC/2 - 78 shots (estimated)
AC/5 - 32 shots
AC/10 - 16 shots
AC/20 - 8 shots

Changing the MG damage makes the MG fall out of line with other Ballistics, perhaps needing less than 1 ton of ammo.
EDIT - It would need 1560 shots, about three-quarters of a ton while other Ballisitcs need just over 1 ton.
Also note the bigger problem is the time it took, not the damage.

MG - 5 minutes, 25 seconds
AC/2 - 1 minute, 3 seconds (estimated)
AC/5 - 55 seconds
AC/10 - 47 seconds
AC/20 - 30 seconds

The MG time looks to be the big issue for it, not the damage it is doing, if you reduce that time the MG will do more damage in a shorter time anyway so that is like a damage boost without changing actual damage values. With SLs currently at 2 minutes 45 seconds, I figure the MG should aim for somewhere about 4 minutes, 8 seconds.

Thus the MG needs a RoF adjustment more than a damage boost.

Paul Inouye said:

An example:
Mech Model: Hunchback-4P

Nice example but with all the different models and variants out there, how will we know the treatment given to other Mechs? Will it be as simple as sections such as the Jenner-F and -F[C] treating each arm group of 3 Energy together or some other system? How about a Hunchback-4G, only 3 Energy but are they considered all together like the 4P's six-pack or separate? We will need a complete listing of how each variant is handled so we know how to run them properly.

Edited by Merchant, 11 June 2013 - 12:18 PM.

[Slashmckill]

DocBach, on 11 June 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

I think triple PPCs being penalized would hurt the Awesome

I disagree, i don't think penelizing the firing of 3 ppcs would hurt the awesome all that much in the sense that if they lower the cool down slightly you could just as well fire 2 sets of 2 ppcs. Even if you did go with the 3 ppc stock you could still fire the 2 torso mounted ppcs then .35/.50 seconds later fire the one in the arm with 0 penalty.

It still lets the awesome be the awesome and it makes mechs last longer on the field by limiting most pinpoint ppc strikes to around 20-30 damage with little heat problems. I need to crunch some numbers a bit but i feel confident that putting a penalty on 3 would work the best in the long run.

(I would prefer just enforcing chain-firing and having alpha striking as an ability with a cooldown since it strengthens the simulation aspect of the game, but as long as you guys TEST this, and i do mean "TEST" and not just let the interns play with it for 5 mins, then this could work out ok.)

Edited by Slashmckill, 11 June 2013 - 12:22 PM.

[Haradim]

Tennex, on 11 June 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

for whatever reason, they are basing it off the chainfire switch rate. which itself was completely arbitrary.

I'd just like to make sure the flamewars are based on accurate, well-explained information. They could easily mean that individual variants are to be balanced appropriately (having given an example of one), but just didn't state that effectively.

They also didn't address weapon variants, like LL vs LPL vs ERLL, PPC vs ERPPC. Or LRM\SRM\SSRM combos, for that matter.

Edited by Haradim, 11 June 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[3rdworld]

Prosperity Park, on 11 June 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

I think the Awesome 8Q and the Hunchback 4P are the only Mechs that can mount 7+ Medium Lasers... and making a Swayback stagger some Lasers isn't going to irreparably harm the Medium Mech category, especially if you can just swap for a MPL or two to bypass the 6 laser limit..

So... Q: Does the 0.5 second countdown begin once a laser is fired, or after the beam ceases? At this time, I'm kind of assuming it means 0.5 seconds after the beam is initially fired...

According to the "works same as chaining" it would be once triggered.

[Butane9000]

It sounds good.

When I told some people in the MGA they mentioned the 3 PPC phract would do well with this system.

However I'm going to give you guys the benefit of the doubt. What I would like to see is when you're over 125% heat your weapons and items start taking extra damage.

Edit: The reason for the 125% heat damage to internal items is because of mechs like the Misery which can skirt this change with 3 PPCs and a Gauss Rifle.

Edited by Butane9000, 11 June 2013 - 12:29 PM.

[BlackBeltJones]

Ngamok, on 11 June 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

The CDA-2A can boat 6 ML and go faster than the HBK-4P in the medium department.

That's Garths ride - it will be buffed for arbitrary, unrelated reasons.

[Deathlike]

Prosperity Park, on 11 June 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

I think the Awesome 8Q and the Hunchback 4P are the only Mechs that can mount 7+ Medium Lasers... and making a Swayback stagger some Lasers isn't going to irreparably harm the Medium Mech category, especially if you can just swap for a MPL or two to bypass the 6 laser limit... I love Swaybacks, and this is totally doable.

Just shoot the 6 in the shoulder, then fire the arms half a second later... I think ->

You forgot about the BJ-1X that was recently introduced to the eco-system.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

"S-SRMs are undergoing a revamp on their targeting solutions..."

Excellent! I look forward to this but still have one rather large bone to pick:

The current turn rate on SSRMs is too high. I feel that allowing them to fire at these dramatic angles from the tubes rather than following a more normalized, realistic path places them in an entirely different bracket than any other weapon, including LRMs. Currently, they are viewed as superior to SRMs in most forms/quantities, and for good reason; SSRMs never miss from any angle, unless cover or range intercede.

SSRMs need to fire forward-facing in the direction of the tube and then bank towards targets, namely with a lower turn rate than the current mechanics. This will force players to actually aim at the targets in order to hit them, though the primary benefit of a guided missile remains and remains effective, allowing easier-than-average, but no longer "free", hits.

You would have to actually aim them at the enemy, and torso mounted streaks would need to be facing the target, giving a benefit for players who normally play one variant only to choose others based on how streaks function and their own preferences.

In example, 3L players frustrated with torso-mounted ssrms might choose a Commando with arm-streaks instead, or the same situation might be true on HBK-4SPs vs TBT-7Ms, promoting more varied chassis being used for the same basic role, but differently. Right now, certain chassis are overwhelmingly preferred.

SSRMs being omni-directional free-hitters has very much stifled many aspects of light and medium gameplay, and needs some love and attention.

/nomorefreessrmkillspleasekthanks
:3

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 11 June 2013 - 12:23 PM.

[LaserAngel]

Prosperity Park, on 11 June 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

I think the Awesome 8Q and the Hunchback 4P are the only Mechs that can mount 7+ Medium Lasers... and making a Swayback stagger some Lasers isn't going to irreparably harm the Medium Mech category, especially if you can just swap for a MPL or two to bypass the 6 laser limit... I love Swaybacks, and this is totally doable.

Just shoot the 6 in the shoulder, then fire the arms half a second later... I think ->

So... Q: Does the 0.5 second countdown begin once a laser is fired, or after the beam ceases? At this time, I'm kind of assuming it means 0.5 seconds after the beam is initially fired...

In all honesty to control my heat, unless it's an alpha strike, I'm usually firing sets of 2-4 medium lasers near constantly on the 4P. I'll disengage to cool off otherwise.

Get those Guass + 3 PPC Highlanders ready though.

Edited by LaserAngel, 11 June 2013 - 12:22 PM.

[Kunae]

3PPC, 1 gauss Highlander 732

No effect.

[Deathlike]

Kunae, on 11 June 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

3PPC, 1 gauss Highlander 732

No effect.

AFAIK, it would kinda affect the HGN-733P more.

[Lefty Lucy]

Medium lasers don't need any penalty regardless.

[Kunae]

Deathlike, on 11 June 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

AFAIK, it would kinda affect the HGN-733P more.

Only slightly.

My point was that the highest point alpha Highlander will be unaffected by this "fix".

[3rdworld]

Kunae, on 11 June 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

3PPC, 1 gauss Highlander 732

No effect.

or 3ppc gauss Misery.

or instead of using 2PPC 2 ERPPC 3F, swap to just 4PPC and you only create 4 more heat.