315 replies to this topic

[Threat Doc]

Steel Claws, on 13 June 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Don't get me wrong, we all would LOVE for this game to be successful. We are mech heads from way back, but unfortunately there is a need for to many in this game to want to turn it into the table top game with graphics. "I am now going to shoot my PPC at the atlas. Sorry your D20 roll failed to connect and do any damage. His return shot rolled a good crit hit roll so the entire left side of your mech is gone." Sorry, that just isn't fun for the majority of players.

It's not really a matter of wanting to turn this game into tabletop with graphics, though I submit that actually would not be a terrible idea. So many people want to say stupid things like, "Oh, the tabletop rules can't possibly work in the computer game." I'm not a terribly smart fella, but I can think of ways to take any rule on the books and make it work. Fortunately, I think that's what PGI is trying to do, now, whether they're having a great time doing it or not.

By the way, have you EVER played the tabletop? Your ignorant D20 reference makes me cringe. If you don't know what the tabletop is like, you probably shouldn't talk against it, as this game is already based, from all I've seen, fairly closely on it.

Jman5, on 13 June 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

The real reason Groups go bust is because the leadership fails to maintain a steady recruitment. Instead, they start off strong, and then just stop. As people naturally drift out to other games or activities, the group dies because they don't bring in new blood.

Recruitment that is not steady is only one of several reasons groups "go bust". It's not always a failure of leadership; in fact, with a lack of face-time and because of long-distance communication, it's more likely for a unit to bust as a result of someone, or a group of someone's, doing something extremely SELFISH or stupid, not following rules they agree to follow, not helping to explain rules, ideals, and standard operating procedures to fellow MechWarrior's so they understand what's going on and act within the bounds of the unit. It's exceedingly difficult for a commander to command in this sort of environment; the truly unfortunate part is when your fellow unit members come to a unit and expect only to play, and then ruin the extra-game activities and conversations of the remainder of the unit who are there to be more. You can't just flush people for differing play-means, or because the experience they're looking for is not exactly what you expect of them, but it makes command a nearly untenable proposition at best.

Recommendation for PGI
Blizzard recently sent their new MMO back to the drawing board. The game's not yet finished, but they shuffled a bunch of people and are basically restarting with the build of the MMO. I suggest PGI makes an announcement that they will be closing down these forums and taking the game back into deep development, with a promise to return when the game, all four pillars, are done and ready to go. That they will return to Open Beta when these things are completed, and all who have Founders and have built up their stash will have some manner of reward when it's time, that all things will be in place, or some amalgam thereof.

I would be willing to bet there are a ton of fans of this game, of BattleTech and MechWarrior, who would love to see that, in order to responsibly care for those of us who love this game, to bring us the absolute best experience possible, the game is going back into deep production. I know I would.

[Acid Phase]

100mile, on 13 June 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

Really.... so you didn't see the 483,158 Total Members in my post...or you didn't want to cause it doesn't jibe with what you want to say...

Facts are facts...there's almost half a million people signed up for this game....Last week the total was around 481,000...that's 2,000+ members a week...and yes the growth has slowed down some but it sure as heck ain't declining...

Anytime you want to know what the numbers are...just look at the bottom of the main page....

You're right about those numbers. But I can assure you, half a million are not playing MWO on a regular basis, during peek hours. Find me the numbers that are playing day in and day out for the past 3 months.

[IceSerpent]

100mile, on 13 June 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

Really.... so you didn't see the 483,158 Total Members in my post...or you didn't want to cause it doesn't jibe with what you want to say...

That's number of registered pilot names since day 1 - it doesn't reflect current population, as we don't know how many people have multiple accounts and how many are not playing any longer.

Quote

Facts are facts...there's almost half a million people signed up for this game....Last week the total was around 481,000...that's 2,000+ members a week...and yes the growth has slowed down some but it sure as heck ain't declining...

Anytime you want to know what the numbers are...just look at the bottom of the main page....

It's not about knowing the numbers, it's about interpreting the numbers. Sorry, but your interpretation is not very convincing.

[Lootee]

Acid Phase, on 13 June 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

You're right about those numbers. But I can assure you, half a million are not playing MWO on a regular basis, during peek hours. Find me the numbers that are playing day in and day out for the past 3 months.

This ^^.

3 of those accounts are mine, 2 are founders. Between the 3 accts I've played a grand total of 9 matches during the past 6 months.

[Sybreed]

Acid Phase, on 13 June 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

You're right about those numbers. But I can assure you, half a million are not playing MWO on a regular basis, during peek hours. Find me the numbers that are playing day in and day out for the past 3 months.

nah like he said, perhaps around 5-10% of these people are playing the game... or maybe someone else said that... anyway that's what i,m also thinking.

Just take DOTA 2 for example, that game has around 200k players at any given time and it always takes me 3-4 minutes to find a freaking game.

[Sephlock]

Quote

It's not really a matter of wanting to turn this game into tabletop with graphics, though I submit that actually would not be a terrible idea

https://mwtactics.com/

[I am]

Petroshka, on 13 June 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

Irrelevant until you divide number of views by the number of days the image has been up.

Says you. I doubt players are continuously checking the art work. I think we can draw a little more from those view counters than you'd like to admit. However, I admit it isn't concrete. The one concrete piece we'd need, the actual number, is being hidden by the developer. Pretty sure we can draw some reasonable conclusions from that too.

[Felbombling]

World of Tanks just hit 60 million registered users the other day. Let's say 5% of them are still playing the game. Wow... 3 million players! Of course, 52 million of those players quit because of the aiming mechanics in that game... obviously.

[Steel Claws]

Kay Wolf, on 13 June 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

It's not really a matter of wanting to turn this game into tabletop with graphics, though I submit that actually would not be a terrible idea. So many people want to say stupid things like, "Oh, the tabletop rules can't possibly work in the computer game." I'm not a terribly smart fella, but I can think of ways to take any rule on the books and make it work. Fortunately, I think that's what PGI is trying to do, now, whether they're having a great time doing it or not.

By the way, have you EVER played the tabletop? Your ignorant D20 reference makes me cringe. If you don't know what the tabletop is like, you probably shouldn't talk against it, as this game is already based, from all I've seen, fairly closely on it.

The issue is that now people want to make how the game plays reliant on that chance roll. If I miss my shot it darn well better be because I didn't aim well enough, not because some random number generator decided that it was time for me to miss a shot that I otherwise would have made. Secondly just because you can take the TT rules and make a game of them doesn't mean that is the best way to do things. Most games have started that way but then comes all that balancing and franktly what works in table top turn based play doesn't always work.

All this talk of pinpoint aiming and other such garbage is just that. If you can hit a moving target at 600 - 800 meters with a weapon that has a travel time then good on you. If someone can reliably hit moving targets, why penalize them. Perhaps what people really should be saying is that they want the damage spread around a bit. Instead of all the damage on one spot make a percentage of it go onto the adjacent components (i.e. splash) instead of one one component. You would have to omit the head component from this of course because everyone would be getting head shot then but that should be easy enough.

[DocBach]

Steel Claws, on 13 June 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

The issue is that now people want to make how the game plays reliant on that chance roll. If I miss my shot it darn well better be because I didn't aim well enough, not because some random number generator decided that it was time for me to miss a shot that I otherwise would have made.

what if your shot missing was a result of a penalty from overheating or running full speed, and could have been avoided if you made different choices piloting, so there was more in play at being accurate rather than just pointing and clicking on something?

Edited by DocBach, 13 June 2013 - 07:18 PM.

[Dude42]

For all these people that claim to be playing, I never see any of you. And I drop lots.

Just sayin

[BlackDrakon]

Dude42, on 13 June 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

For all these people that claim to be playing, I never see any of you. And I drop lots.

Just sayin

ELO my friend, ELO.....

[Vision]

Here's a quick exercise in numbers. Bear in mind this is NOT based around anything specific, merely an exercise to show how big numbers can quickly become small numbers. A lot of the following is assumption only but hopefully people get where i'm going.

Let's take a figure that was bandied about earlier in the forum post of a max of 30,000 players currently in beta.

Assume for a second that a generous 50% of them are online at any one time = 15,000 players

Again, assume that 50% of these are actively looking for games = 7500 players searching

In order to balance the tonnage let's assume again that there will be 2 mechs of each weight class
Light = 1875 players
Medium = 1875 players
Heavy = 1875 players
Assault = 1875 players

Add in an estimate of ELO based around kill/death ratio
0-0.5 - 468 players of each mech weight fall in this category
0.5-0.75 - 468 players of each mech weight fall in this category
0.75-1.0 - 468 players of each mech weight fall in this category
1.0+ - 468 players of each mech weight fall in this category

seeing as there are 8 players per game at the moment you could even divide 468 / 8 = 58 players you may regularly see.

This was thrown together in 5 minutes so have a think about it and let me know if you think i'm wrong (or add to it and change the numbers a bit). It was more the formula that interests me, not the values.

[Steel Claws]

Neverfar, on 13 June 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

Oh please. You're saying that it's D+D with a first person shooter interface because your bloat boat can't hop around with perfect accuracy anymore? Let me find a very tiny violin to play for you because you can't play Quake 2 with 6 railguns bolted together while bunny-hopping

With all the random number generation in this game you don' think it is. What do you think is going on every time your weapons get critted or ammo explodes. As for jump jetting, I never relied on it. But to all you who think it was a victory, congratulations - you accomplished basically squat. They are still shooting the same alphas and you still die because you suck. Seriously all you really hurt were the smaller mechs. Bravo your my heros.

Edited by Steel Claws, 13 June 2013 - 07:55 PM.

[Gunivar]

Here is the problem:
A. There is no proper tutorial in the actual game.
B. No missions or campaign to practice against AI Mechs and tanks.
C. Little info on the uses and functionality of the various guns and gun variations.
D. It is difficult for players to learn when there is no respawning in both current modes (Don't give me the drama about it. It would be best for the game to have a mix of more traditional Mechwarrior modes and more "friendly" modes for the casual or new.)
E. The Game is not about brawling as much as dodging long ranged laz0rs and missiles that, for a new player, can feel like hell opened up in the sky and is spitting on him or her.
F. Trial mechs are crap.
G. Game lacks proper logic in terms of weapon and armor availability for each weight (Imagine playing for the first time and realizing that some of these Light Mechs seem to last as long as the Mediums.)

[Bad Andy]

who cares if you play the same people the real story is that half the matches now have a more than 100 ton difference between the teams and at least 1 disconnect

[Threat Doc]

Sephlock, on 13 June 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

https://mwtactics.com/

I already play it, thanks. It still needs some work, but I just played three matches today, and each of them went fairly quickly. I'm looking forward to seeing more improvements.

Steel Claws, on 13 June 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

The issue is that now people want to make how the game plays reliant on that chance roll. If I miss my shot it darn well better be because I didn't aim well enough, not because some random number generator decided that it was time for me to miss a shot that I otherwise would have made. Secondly just because you can take the TT rules and make a game of them doesn't mean that is the best way to do things. Most games have started that way but then comes all that balancing and franktly what works in table top turn based play doesn't always work.

Granted, not everything translates because you're no longer dealing with turn-by-turn time, you're working on real-time. Frankly, I agree with the recycle times on the weapons, I've heard disparity about the damages, especially from my oldest son who is, right now, hating on LRMs -my favorite weapon- badly; he says they're too powerful. I love how the 'Mechs move, their speed 'FEELS' right, etc. I think PGI really is onto something, here, but there are many things that are being left out.

One of the things relates to something I said earlier in this thread, and you're going to hate it Steel Claws because it deals with a portion of the lore, and the RNG you seem to be bitching about a lot, which doesn't exist for weapons fire. The developers wanted to make the game based on natural skill and, unfortunately, what that's done is allowed those capable of zero skill beyond pin-point accuracy to dominate the game.

Now, the lore of the game contains LosTech, which is technology for which the knowledge to manufacture and, sometimes, repair it has been lost due to the amazingly harsh warfare of the Succession Wars. This means that you have Battle Computers in the 'Mechs that could be as young as a few months old to a few centuries old. This means there's a massive disparity in how these systems work though, generally, they malfunction periodically. With higher heat levels due to movement, weapons fire, and taking PPC, laser, and flamer heat along with the damage, which is all informed by the intensity of combat, the arm-weight of weaponry attached to the 'Mech, especially on the arms, and various outside influences. This is further informed by the speed of your 'Mech, the unevenness of the terrain, and the speed and activities of the enemy 'Mech. So, every time someone gives an argument about why the game should have pin-point accuracy, why there shouldn't be a Cone of Destruction or a random number generator, I have to wonder what they know about BattleTech? NONE of the previous MechWarrior games got it right, and that's too bad.

Frankly, the real skill would be if these things were all accounted for in the game, and MechWarrior's could actually figure out how to improve their pilot abilities both naturally and through pilot and 'Mech improvements purchased over time, instead of the silly BS in the game now, especially being required to master three chassis of the same 'Mech before you can make Veteran -dumb (shakes head)-, I think you might draw more people, because then there would actually be a challenge.

Quote

Perhaps what people really should be saying is that they want the damage spread around a bit. Instead of all the damage on one spot make a percentage of it go onto the adjacent components (i.e. splash) instead of one one component. You would have to omit the head component from this of course because everyone would be getting head shot then but that should be easy enough.

Yep, you don't know BattleTech, and that's sad.

DocBach, on 13 June 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

what if your shot missing was a result of a penalty from overheating or running full speed, and could have been avoided if you made different choices piloting, so there was more in play at being accurate rather than just pointing and clicking on something?

I think that would be pretty nifty!

Steel Claws, on 13 June 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

With all the random number generation in this game you don' think it is.

For the weapons fire the Devs have told us there is no RNG, and I believe them, because nearly everything is point-and-click.

Quote

What do you think is going on every time your weapons get critted or ammo explodes.

Yes, those might be some manner of RNG, but not for weapons fire.

Take a minute to learn some BattleTech, Steel Claws, learn the game universe for it, try to enjoy the whole rather than just shooting the crap out of everything you come across.

[Theodor Kling]

xDeityx, on 13 June 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

Or PGI could be transparent...ahhh who am I kidding?

Who indeed? Maybe the same people that believed in the "beta fatigue" excuse?

Tezcatli, on 13 June 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

I think some people are waiting for CW. Since right now it's just fighting battles for c-bills and experience.
And of course trying out whatever mech they release.

If they want to keep people satiated until CW and release. They need to accelerate the rate they put mechs into the game.

But currently every other patch has caused more problems then they have fixed. Though I have seen less crashes of late. It still begs the question of where their resources are going. I remember hearing that they would hire a ton of people at GDC. But we haven't see any affect of that.

Well I am waiting to see if they will get it right in the long run, and because without people playing it they can't balance weapons
And although i generally agree with you about the patches, the last one was really good in my eyes. Not problem free, but much better then those before. Gives hope
And I think releasing mechs is not the way to go. Sure, if the people making mechs are of no use for other areas, let them keep building mechs, makes for a nice bonus. But what they really need is fix and implement stuff that is long overdue, like lobby, private matches, working hit detection, ingame voice... oh and balancing.
Other things that were promised but not delivered as well, CW and Clans come to mind here, but those are less... basic.

And I don think myself a doomsayer. I might sound so from time to time, but that's desperation. I want this to be a good game. Even if it becomes a shooter ( which seems likely ). But I need to voice all my concerns, hoping that PGI will hear them or others like me in the long run.
That they will listen to the people still playing. Of course not to all our suggestions, which oftne contradict each other. But at least some, or a variation of them. Like they did with JJ shake. Still needs some tuning and opininouns about it differ, but at least they did something.

[Appogee]

Maps. Procedurally generated random maps.

They would stop the game being so grindingly samey.

[xenoglyph]

Closed beta was broken but fun.
Now it's broken and boring.

Honestly, all the problems are a result of PGI's stubbornness. They started out with some bad ideas that they were never willing to compromise on, and it's affected their decisions since. They're looking at long term profitability with a product that won't survive the short term if they don't wake the f up.

At this point I'm with the others...I don't think there's much hope for MWO.