315 replies to this topic

[Jman5]

Team Leader, on 13 June 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

Threads like this make me sad because they make it look like theres no hope for this game

Don't be sad. Literally every game with an online community is filled with threads just like these. The gaming community is terrible at judging their own population/popularity. Usually the thought process is: "I'm not having fun and some people in my small circle of friends aren't having fun. Ergo, no one is having fun and the game is dying." It's a faulty mental leap from people who can't comprehend that their opinion might only exist in their small echo chamber.

I'm sorry if I'm coming off as White Knighting, but it's just something I see so much from even wildly successful AAA games that it's hard to take them seriously. Most people who are frustrated with a game for whatever reason (balance, burn-out, etc) can't handle the fact that it's doing well financially/population-wise. So they claim the game is dying to justify their feelings that it's not them, it's the game company's fault.

The biggest thing I use to judge a game's success is it's hiring/firing situation. The fact that in the last two months PGI has already or is trying to double it's employees from 50 to 100, is the biggest indicator that the game has a healthy population and financial security. You don't double your employee numbers for a dying game.

Edited by Jman5, 13 June 2013 - 11:49 AM.

[Prophetic]

I have to admit that it is getting harder and harder to keep our unit members interested.

The negatives for us?
No one wants to level mechs anymore. ELO makes it too frustrating. Bring something big with PPCs and gauss or go solo. No one openly says this but once you face a few loses anyone not in a maxed out mech gets the msg.

Groups no bigger then four other then an eight. In closed beta you could run anything and have any number of people in your group because there was no ELO or separate queues. Bring this back. Dividing the community over and over is debilitating.
I understand the counter argument where people feel it just leads to 8-0 rofl stomps, but, guess what? That is happening right now anyway. The only difference is that you get to stomp the same faces in a row or try and level mechs and get stomped.

There is no goal or objective in this game!
CW needs to be in place yesterday!
Start with one damn Ice planet with the same cold maps over and over and we will all push that percentage needle all day long.
It really is that simple. Seeing house or merc symbols and feeling that u are a part of something a little bigger goes a long way.

I could go on, but these are the major issues for many us. Ours is not the only unit to share this sentiment. Other unit leaders like myself are still holding the fort but I guess only time will tell.

Edited by Prophetic, 13 June 2013 - 11:55 AM.

[I am]

StaggerCheck, on 13 June 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

I popped into the media section to get a glimpse of the Victor and noticed this. I am not sure how much of an indication this is as to how healthy Mechwarrior: Online is right now. It could be the length of time between artwork reveals. It could be the fragmentation of the forums. It could be the the length of time the Victor and Quickdraw have been available... but the numbers are interesting, all the same.

Page views of concept art:

80063: Atlas concept
45576: Atlas founders
52181: Hunchback concept
31720: Hunchback founders
48663: Jenner concept
27047: Jenner founders
74193: Catapult concept
43388: Catapult founders

68620: Dragon concept
72784: Centurion concept
61083: Commando concept
63892: Raven concept
77605: Awesome concept
55981: Cicada concept
48285: Trebuchet concept
62919: Stalker concept
70848: Cataphract concept
44002: Flea concept
57910: Jagermech concept
47192: Spider concept
44522: Orion concept
38929: Blackjack concept
45928: Highlander concept
7995: Victor concept
3346: Quickdraw concept

Ouch. Funny thing is I never looked at any of the concept art, but yesterday at work looked at the quickdraw, curious to see what kind of mech it was (no BT exp.). So to me that says, external interest in MWO has died. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

[Bilbo]

I am, on 13 June 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

Ouch. Funny thing is I never looked at any of the concept art, but yesterday at work looked at the quickdraw, curious to see what kind of mech it was (no BT exp.). So to me that says, external interest in MWO has died. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

I never look at the concept art pages, but I have seen all the art in one form or another in the forums here or elsewhere. I don't think there is anything to read there, right or wrong.

[Corvus Antaka]

I am, on 13 June 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

Ouch. Funny thing is I never looked at any of the concept art, but yesterday at work looked at the quickdraw, curious to see what kind of mech it was (no BT exp.). So to me that says, external interest in MWO has died. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

Ouch. Good find.

[Bilbo]

Bilbo, on 13 June 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

I never look at the concept art pages, but I have seen all the art in one form or another in the forums here or elsewhere. I don't think there is anything to read there, right or wrong.

I should also note that more people played the game during the only weekend for which a player count has been given, than actually looked at any single page on that list.

[Papar]

There is no way for us to know the player count but I have to say that threats like this also contribute to the reduction of the player count because people (especially newcomers) when they see the forums think that the game is dying and stop/don't start playing because no game is fun if it is a ghostown. If you enjoy the game, try to continue playing regardless of what you think of the numbers else if you are bored or the game crashes a lot, take a break and come back after launch to check if anything has changed.

[IceSerpent]

Jman5, on 13 June 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

The biggest thing I use to judge a game's success is it's hiring/firing situation. The fact that in the last two months PGI has already or is trying to double it's employees from 50 to 100, is the biggest indicator that the game has a healthy population and financial security. You don't double your employee numbers for a dying game.

This approach is only correct if you are considering investing into the company in question. Most players judge a game's success strictly from fun / boring point of view. Profit margin of the game is largely irrelevant. Besides, we have no idea why PGI wants to hire more people - for all we know, it has nothing to do with this particular game.

[xDeityx]

Papar, on 13 June 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

There is no way for us to know the player count but I have to say that threats like this also contribute to the reduction of the player count because people (especially newcomers) when they see the forums think that the game is dying and stop/don't start playing because no game is fun if it is a ghostown. If you enjoy the game, try to continue playing regardless of what you think of the numbers else if you are bored or the game crashes a lot, take a break and come back after launch to check if anything has changed.

The amount that this thread reduces the player count can be counted on one hand. Nobody says, "well I'm having fun but there's a thread about the player count going down so cya later!" People leave out of frustration and when they disagree with the direction they see the game heading. Only a small percentage of the player base even visits the forums.

We can't just pretend its all fine as we see a game we invested in spiraling down the drain. Not when there's still a chance to stop it.

[Gallowglas]

StaggerCheck, on 13 June 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

I popped into the media section to get a glimpse of the Victor and noticed this. I am not sure how much of an indication this is as to how healthy Mechwarrior: Online is right now. It could be the length of time between artwork reveals. It could be the fragmentation of the forums. It could be the the length of time the Victor and Quickdraw have been available... but the numbers are interesting, all the same.

Page views of concept art:

80063: Atlas concept
45576: Atlas founders
52181: Hunchback concept
31720: Hunchback founders
48663: Jenner concept
27047: Jenner founders
74193: Catapult concept
43388: Catapult founders

68620: Dragon concept
72784: Centurion concept
61083: Commando concept
63892: Raven concept
77605: Awesome concept
55981: Cicada concept
48285: Trebuchet concept
62919: Stalker concept
70848: Cataphract concept
44002: Flea concept
57910: Jagermech concept
47192: Spider concept
44522: Orion concept
38929: Blackjack concept
45928: Highlander concept
7995: Victor concept
3346: Quickdraw concept

That's a faulty way of looking at the data. Remember that pageviews are cumulative. Thus, you would absolutely expect that there would be more pageviews for something over time. If you could look at the number of pageviews for each mech 1 month out from their release, then it might be relevant. Even so, when something is new and novel, you're likely to sit and marvel at it more often, show it off to your friends, etc. 15 mechs in? Not so much. Even so, the Highlander views seem pretty healthy. And look at the announcement thread for the Quickdraw: 27963 views.

Edited by Gallowglas, 13 June 2013 - 12:35 PM.

[100mile]

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And this is just the forums...you can safely assume that there's a minimum of 10% of the total population in the actual game the majority of the time.....

BTW...doesn't appear the stats are hidden on to me....

Edited by 100mile, 13 June 2013 - 12:33 PM.

[DocBach]

I don't know about other groups, but there's been a remarkable resurgence in interest from Murphy's Law - where a couple weeks ago there would only be one or two players playing MWO instead of other games at peak hours, we've now been able to piece together an entire 4 man drop the last couple nights!

Of course, its a far cry from the five or so 8 man drops we use to have going concurrently nightly.

[Jman5]

xDeityx, on 13 June 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

We can't just pretend its all fine as we see a game we invested in spiraling down the drain.

Well that's just like your opinion man.

Here is mine:
The game has some balance and bug problems but is still fun (hence why I waste my time and money on it). The release schedule of several key features are laid out already so I know what to expect and when. While I wish, things would move at a quicker pace, I'm still satisfied with the general direction things are headed.

IceSerpent, on 13 June 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

This approach is only correct if you are considering investing into the company in question. Most players judge a game's success strictly from fun / boring point of view. Profit margin of the game is largely irrelevant. Besides, we have no idea why PGI wants to hire more people - for all we know, it has nothing to do with this particular game.

The financial security of a small game company is a pretty good indication of whether the community in general is healthy or not. If the game was a ghost town, then the money would dry up, development would largely end, and hiring would stop. A dying community can't support a company of 100 employees. You would need thousands of people spending thousands of dollars per year on the game alone.

Either MWO is backed by some anonymous billionaire or the game's population/financials are doing better than you think.

[IceSerpent]

100mile, on 13 June 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

497 members, 1039 guests, 0 anonymous users (See full list)

And this is just the forums...you can safely assume that there's a minimum of 10% of the total population in the actual game the majority of the time.....

1. We don't know what the current total population is.
2. We can't safely assume anything about people "in the actual game the majority of the time" - for starters that number varies depending on the time of the day, not to mention that you pulled that 10% number out of thin air.
3. All we know from your numbers is that there are currently ~500 players reading the forums, which tells us absolutely nothing about the actual game.

[Threat Doc]

I haven't read most of what's been written, here... TL:DR; so, I apologize if this has already been said, but I think it bears saying, again.

IceSerpent, on 13 June 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

...most of BT fans have already pulled out and it looks like FPS crowd is starting to get bored too.

When this kicked off in October 2011, I did a lot of work to bring friends on-board for this, talked to everyone I knew as gamers, family members, especially fellow BattleTech and MechWarrior enthusiasts, and about a third of them came, while the rest remained away, claiming they were tired of all the promises of other games that never delivered. The rest have dropped off over time, because the game is the same old thing every time you drop.

I have had my doubts about what was going on, here, but I've also tried to be as positive as possible about this game. It's a gorgeous game, and there's a LOT of potential, here. On the very same day the Facebook page for this game was announced, I restarted Armageddon Unlimited, no second thoughts, like it was supposed to be alive, even after three failures as a unit due to attitudes and personalities rather than the ability of certain folks within the unit to see themselves in more than just a game. I believe in MWO, I did the hardest work I've ever done to get AU up and running, for THIS game. However, after about the first six months, I began feeling as though there was already a problem...

See, quite a few of us BattleTech veterans (from 1982 and '84) and MechWarrior veterans (from '91), who have loved the universe since its inception, and loved to play all of these games, told PGI and IGP what needed to happen to make this game successful. We have been ignored, and this is what is happening.

If, indeed, this is a storm and it is set to, eventually, pass, all that will be left, I'm afraid, are the twitchers and FPS gamers who couldn't care less about the game universe. I have heard a lot about how the game universe is irrelevant to the game itself, about how all we need is stompy robots with weapons, like the original tabletop board game. The problem with that is, at least beginning with 2nd Edition BattleDroids, which is what we know as BattleTech (from '84), is the simple fact that unit historical and story snippets were included in the very basic rulebook... from the beginning. The universe BattleTech takes place in, and the tactical tabletop simulation game, itself, are one and the same, inseparable. Until developers understand that, and make the effort to satisfy the veterans of the game universe, who might be willing to turn around and recruit others into the game, and the game is marketed well enough, the only successful MechWarrior computer games will be single-player.

http://www.wolvesau....U/BTO_Basic.pdf

Hopefully, what was ignored as to what needed to be done for this game, for the BattleTech/MechWarrior universe, will sink into the minds of any future developers of BattleTech products. Had I the money to be able to do it, I would build what I linked above, and I wouldn't let ANYONE know about it until Closed Beta was set to begin. It's always been a HUGE mistake to open up forums or the lines of communication before the heavy lifting on the game has been done, as you let in all manner people who don't care about anything but getting their twitch on.

It saddens me to hear what I've read in this thread, before I skipped page two and so on to make this post. I still believe this game has a great deal of potential, and it can definitely be done with these developers, but if they want to have the lines of communication open, they need to respect those lines, and they need to listen.

[Jasen]

Jman5, on 13 June 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

The biggest thing I use to judge a game's success is it's hiring/firing situation. The fact that in the last two months PGI has already or is trying to double it's employees from 50 to 100, is the biggest indicator that the game has a healthy population and financial security. You don't double your employee numbers for a dying game.

You do realize PGI has been "hiring" since closed beta... and unless it snuck by, they haven't hired a single person.

[IceSerpent]

Jman5, on 13 June 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

The financial security of a small game company is a pretty good indication of whether the community in general is healthy or not. If the game was a ghost town, then the money would dry up, development would largely end, and hiring would stop. A dying community can't support a company of 100 employees. You would need thousands of people spending thousands of dollars per year on the game alone.

That assumes two things: that the game in question is the only source of income for the company and that the game is actualy paying the bills (i.e. company is not just burning through investors' money and/or loans). We have no way of knowing if either of those assumptions is correct.

Besides, take a look here - the only open position listed is texture artist, so they have either hired the other 49 people already (which would bring up the obvious "where are the results of work done by those extra people?" question), or they dropped the idea of doubling the staff, or they need 50 texture artists for some weird reason.

[Gamgee]

StaggerCheck, on 13 June 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

I popped into the media section to get a glimpse of the Victor and noticed this. I am not sure how much of an indication this is as to how healthy Mechwarrior: Online is right now. It could be the length of time between artwork reveals. It could be the fragmentation of the forums. It could be the the length of time the Victor and Quickdraw have been available... but the numbers are interesting, all the same.

Page views of concept art:

80063: Atlas concept
45576: Atlas founders
52181: Hunchback concept
31720: Hunchback founders
48663: Jenner concept
27047: Jenner founders
74193: Catapult concept
43388: Catapult founders

68620: Dragon concept
72784: Centurion concept
61083: Commando concept
63892: Raven concept
77605: Awesome concept
55981: Cicada concept
48285: Trebuchet concept
62919: Stalker concept
70848: Cataphract concept
44002: Flea concept
57910: Jagermech concept
47192: Spider concept
44522: Orion concept
38929: Blackjack concept
45928: Highlander concept
7995: Victor concept
3346: Quickdraw concept

[Bilbo]

Gamgee, on 13 June 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

I see your quote and raise you two more.

Bilbo, on 13 June 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

I never look at the concept art pages, but I have seen all the art in one form or another in the forums here or elsewhere. I don't think there is anything to read there, right or wrong.

Bilbo, on 13 June 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

I should also note that more people played the game during the only weekend for which a player count has been given, than actually looked at any single page on that list.

[Jasen]

Bilbo, on 13 June 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

I see your quote and raise you two more.

So... how are DHB's numbers lately? After the mass exodus can you guys even run drops? Yet.. the game is perfect right?

lolz.