315 replies to this topic

[Mercules]

tenderloving, on 21 June 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

Again, my assumption is that the industry (publishers of similar games) knows what's best. We can eliminate any other variables past that point, because we are in a competitive, Darwinian environment. They can have a million reasons for making the decision, but since you can't simultaneously display and not display the count, they are either making a good decision relative to the industry or a bad decision. All of the reasons you listed can fall into one of the two choices in my questions, but that's not what my question is asking.

I am asking a very narrow question; is this decision ahead or behind the industry? I even leave it up to the reader to decide and draw no conclusions of my own. I make no arguments other than my original assumption.

Here is a simplified version:

If it is the industry standard to display population counts, then not doing so is either a positive step ahead of industry practice or a negative step that lags behind the industry.

Seriously, close the tab you have open to the wikipedia list of fallacies and go do something else.

But you didn't state what you just stated above. You said...

tenderloving, on 21 June 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

It's kind of a standard to show players online. Therefore:

1. PGI is smarter than the industry
2. PGI is not smarter than the industry

Now, let's look at their track record so far and then determine if they are ahead of the curve or not. You can draw your own conclusion but there are only two possible answers.

Smarter or Not Smarter. Even so a decision doesn't HAVE to be good or bad. There is a lot inbetween. No, it doesn't need to fall either good or bad. It could be good in one area and bad in another. It could be both at once. Removing the player count can make a section of the population feel secure while simultaneously making another section of the population feel less secure. Is that good or bad? It is neither. So no there is not...

tenderloving, on 21 June 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

only two possible answers.

[Jasen]

Gotta agree with Mercules. Also was suspicious that it was there, then removed...

Makes it easy to pretend you're smooth sailing when no one can prove you wrong. (except those pesky heatmaps)

[tenderloving]

Jasen, on 21 June 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

Gotta agree with Mercules. Also was suspicious that it was there, then removed...

Makes it easy to pretend you're smooth sailing when no one can prove you wrong. (except those pesky heatmaps)

I didn't remove my original post. It's still there.

Unless you meant to say you agreed with me, TenderLoving. (This seems more likely based on your other statements.)

[Jasen]

tenderloving, on 21 June 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

I didn't remove my original post. It's still there.

Unless you meant to say you agreed with me, TenderLoving. (This seems more likely based on your other statements.)

Oh no, I mean its just really suspicious they had the counter, then removed it later. Don't know of any other games that have done that.

Haven't really been paying attention to the "argument" you two are having, not taking sides in that... prolly shoulda just not posted =D

Edited by Jasen, 21 June 2013 - 10:07 AM.

[tenderloving]

Jasen, on 21 June 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

Oh no, I mean its just really suspicious they had the counter, then removed it later. Don't know of any other games that have done that.

Haven't really been paying attention to the "argument" you two are having, not taking sides in that... prolly shoulda just not posted =D

I see what you were posting now.

Edited by tenderloving, 21 June 2013 - 10:10 AM.

[3rdworld]

[Mercules]

Jasen, on 21 June 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

Oh no, I mean its just really suspicious they had the counter, then removed it later. Don't know of any other games that have done that.

DDO, Rift... other MMOs have at some point had actual numbers listed and then switched to "Full, High, Medium, Low, Empty". The hue and cry with DDO, just like here, was that once they removed the player counter it was done and dead. Did I mention their new expansion now 2 years later after the DOOOOOOOM!!!!!1!! predictions?

[Stoicblitzer]

Jasen, on 21 June 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

Hey paragon... perhaps you will like this one better.

You may remember this game... notice no PPCs to be found. (its the only screen I have of your team not running PPC assaults.)




Loudmouth meta nubs.

gj on a well-played game. i don't remember that game because i didn't play in it. i remember the 3rd match though where we played without two of our best players and drop commander. i don't typically do screenshot wars but you insulted us for no reason.

Edited by Stoicblitzer, 21 June 2013 - 10:41 AM.

[Snailio]

Jasen, on 21 June 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

Hey paragon... perhaps you will like this one better.

You may remember this game... notice no PPCs to be found. (its the only screen I have of your team not running PPC assaults.)




Loudmouth meta nubs.

Paragon defeats Corvus Syndicate 2-1
Good luck in the losers bracket.

[Jasen]

I was hoping you guys would bite =D

Yessir, you are right. Up until that match we did not do the PPC meta. We played with some ******** sense of honor... Knowing we were facing you and your reputation for nothing but PPCs... we tried to quickly adapt and paid for it badly.

YOU WERE BETTER THAN US AT THAT POINT USING PPC STALKERS, I ADMIT IT.

As you saw though, we were clearly better than you using normal mechs with realistic loadouts. I hope you guys are prepared for boating nerfs... we are.

Anyways, since then, we have lost our misguided sense of honor, and have decided to practice with the lovely PPCs. We look forward to our next meeting with you guys, which I am assuming will be either in the finals, or as we blow by you when you join us in the loser bracket.

Also: you forgot the first game screen - here:



We'll also leave out the game we played before that match that we slaughtered you 8-1 =D (no screenie on that one but I'm sure you'll remember)

Also, we met in an 8 man a couple days ago: we beat you there too: 8-1 was it?


PS: your boy peef was the one that started the smack talking.

Edited by Jasen, 21 June 2013 - 10:54 AM.

[Acid Phase]

Holy sh*t guys. Egos hurt much. Stay on topic FFS.

Edited by Acid Phase, 21 June 2013 - 10:52 AM.

[Mercules]

Come on guys... I don't want to report both sides for Name and Shame. Put'm back in the pants, no one except your significant other cares about the size anyway.

[Accursed Richards]

Jasen, on 21 June 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

I was hoping you guys would bite =D

Yessir, you are right. Up until that match we did not do the PPC meta. We played with some ******** sense of honor... Knowing we were facing you and your reputation for nothing but PPCs... we tried to quickly adapt and paid for it badly.

YOU WERE BETTER THAN US AT THAT POINT USING PPC STALKERS, I ADMIT IT.

As you saw though, we were clearly better than you using normal mechs with realistic loadouts. I hope you guys are prepared for boating nerfs... we are.

Anyways, since then, we have lost our misguided sense of honor, and have decided to practice with the lovely PPCs. We look forward to our next meeting with you guys, which I am assuming will be either in the finals, or as we blow by you when you join us in the loser bracket.

Also: you forgot the first game screen - here:

We'll also leave out the game we played before that match that we slaughtered you 8-1 =D (no screenie on that one but I'm sure you'll remember)

Also, we met in an 8 man a couple days ago: we beat you there too: 8-1 was it?

PS: your boy peef was the one that started the smack talking.

Edited by Accursed Richards, 21 June 2013 - 11:01 AM.

[Jasen]

Mercules, on 21 June 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Come on guys... I don't want to report both sides for Name and Shame. Put'm back in the pants, no one except your significant other cares about the size anyway.

Don't take away our competition... it's the only the we have left in this game.

[Mercules]

Jasen, on 21 June 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

Don't take away our competition... it's the only the we have left in this game.

Compete in game, not on the forums. There is a forum rule specific about that sort of "competition".

[Snailio]

Jasen, on 21 June 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

I was hoping you guys would bite =D

Yessir, you are right. Up until that match we did not do the PPC meta. We played with some ******** sense of honor... Knowing we were facing you and your reputation for nothing but PPCs... we tried to quickly adapt and paid for it badly.

YOU WERE BETTER THAN US AT THAT POINT USING PPC STALKERS, I ADMIT IT.

As you saw though, we were clearly better than you using normal mechs with realistic loadouts. I hope you guys are prepared for boating nerfs... we are.

Anyways, since then, we have lost our misguided sense of honor, and have decided to practice with the lovely PPCs. We look forward to our next meeting with you guys, which I am assuming will be either in the finals, or as we blow by you when you join us in the loser bracket.

Also: you forgot the first game screen - here:



We'll also leave out the game we played before that match that we slaughtered you 8-1 =D (no screenie on that one but I'm sure you'll remember)

Also, we met in an 8 man a couple days ago: we beat you there too: 8-1 was it?


PS: your boy peef was the one that started the smack talking.

peef isn't even on our team, he is DV8. I'm not really sure why you would associate peef with Paragon, he has nothing to do with us. You guys really need to learn some things if you plan to play in leagues with top tier teams. Competitions are about winning, so your tears about PPCs have zero foundation in that environment. The general idea is to take the loadout that gives you the best opportunity to win. If you don't understand that, and you want to cry about the meta, then you should not be playing in tournaments. Furthermore, it is disingenuous to rant about honor when after two hours of missed sync drops (around 20 missed syncs?) in our match your team would not allow the match to continue on a second day. At 11pm ET, after two hours of trying to finish the match, two of our top pilots and our team lead had to leave (as stoicblitzer previously mentioned). Instead of doing the "honorable" thing in allowing a reschedule to continue the match on a different day, your team forced us to either forfeit or continue without our team lead and top pilots. And yet we still won that third drop 8-0. It is pretty evident "honor" is not very high up in the Corvus Syndicate priority list, and neither is sportsmanship. It is further evident you guys are simply trying to build a name for yourselves through a feud with Paragon. Good luck with that.

PS: Apologies to OP for hijacking your thread. This will be my last response in here.

Edited by Snailio, 21 June 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[Jasen]

Mercules, on 21 June 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

Compete in game, not on the forums. There is a forum rule specific about that sort of "competition".

But there is no... anything... in game to facilitate that. We can't even lobby up and scrim without jumping through ridiculous hoops.

True story: that night.. that drop:

Drop one, We mis-dropped literally 9 times in a row. on the 10th drop we got to play match 1. Miraculously we got to play match 2 on the first try following that. I forget how many was between match 2 and 3 but it was around 6-7 misdrops.

Both teams had to suicide 17+ times if I remember correctly to finish that 1 single match. (this is in 8 man queue).

Not only did that wreck our ELOs (did paragon even match up against SJR for their match the next day?)... it took like 4 hours...

not to mention thats like 17x2 8 man queue games that were ruined by suiciders that are just trying to do a damn match.


Thats the state of MWO at competitive levels... now we cant even use the damn forums.




(and dont give me that reschedule crap - you guys said, cant do it tomorrow, cant do it monday, we couldn't do it on the weekend... we were equally at fault. Maybe you should have enough pilots to field...)

Furthermore, you aint telling me anything. We dont require your input about leagues. You cheese it, we get it... we understand now like I said. Can't wait to play you again... we're sitting around 4-2 up with our matchups against you. Can't wait to make it official.

PS: Always referencing yourself as a "top tier team" is funny. But reassuring for us.. we're up on a top-tier team.

Also, you are aware that Corvus is made exclusively from from ex DHB, Wolf Spiders, and Ice Dragons? You should do your research. PS: We're still ahead.

Edited by Jasen, 21 June 2013 - 11:23 AM.

[Mercules]

Jasen, on 21 June 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

But there is no... anything... in game to facilitate that. We can't even lobby up and scrim without jumping through ridiculous hoops.

True story: that night.. that drop:

Drop one, We mis-dropped literally 9 times in a row. on the 10th drop we got to play match 1. Miraculously we got to play match 2 on the first try following that. I forget how many was between match 2 and 3 but it was around 6-7 misdrops.

Both teams had to suicide 17+ times if I remember correctly to finish that 1 single match. (this is in 8 man queue).

Not only did that wreck our ELOs (did paragon even match up against SJR for their match the next day?)... it took like 4 hours...

not to mention thats like 17x2 8 man queue games that were ruined by suiciders that are just trying to do a damn match.


Thats the state of MWO at competitive levels... now we cant even use the damn forums.

You can use the forums all you want. You just can't "Name and Shame" which is what both sides are starting to do. I'm well aware of how difficult it is to match up games against specific people. There is a lobby system apparently coming.

http://mwomercs.com/...dated-20130226/

[Acid Phase]

Jasen, on 21 June 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

Thats the state of MWO at competitive levels... now we cant even use the damn forums.

You could all just go here and duke it out. I hear k-town loves having these discussions. You can even insult eachothers dogs if it gets to those extremities.

Edited by Acid Phase, 21 June 2013 - 11:16 AM.

[Stoicblitzer]

Jasen, on 21 June 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

(and dont give me that reschedule crap - you guys said, cant do it tomorrow, cant do it monday, we couldn't do it on the weekend... we were equally at fault. Maybe you should have enough pilots to field...)

Furthermore, you aint telling me anything. We dont require your input about leagues. You cheese it, we get it... we understand now like I said. Can't wait to play you again... we're sitting around 4-2 up with our matchups against you. Can't wait to make it official.

PS: Always referencing yourself as a "top tier team" is funny. But reassuring for us.. we're up on a top-tier team.

Also, you are aware that Corvus is made exclusively from from ex DHB, Wold Spiders, and Ice Dragons? You should do your research. PS: We're still ahead.

let's do some scrims. we need good competition.

Edited by Stoicblitzer, 21 June 2013 - 11:23 AM.