965 replies to this topic

[DirePhoenix]

Lege, on 04 July 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

"worked out the legal problems" = we threw some money at them so they let us do it The down side is we have to do a project phoenix to make up our losses. So we are coming for your wallets again and the best part is we are still in beta.

I am pretty certain that any talk of "legal issues" with the classic 'mechs is complete bull. How can there be any issues if you're using all new art?

[Tor Gungnir]

DirePhoenix, on 06 July 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

I am pretty certain that any talk of "legal issues" with the classic 'mechs is complete bull. How can there be any issues if you're using all new art?

You don't know how intellectual property works, do you?

[IceSerpent]

Tor Gungnir, on 06 July 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

You don't know how intellectual property works, do you?

Looks like he does, but you don't - the IP is the actual look of the mech, not its name or specs.

[Benden]

Tor Gungnir, on 06 July 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

You don't know how intellectual property works, do you?

Tor Gungnir, on 06 July 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

You don't know how intellectual property works, do you?

Why, are you professionnel business lawyer yourself ?

Dont make it look more complex than it is.
Why do you think any of those phoenix mechs are barely recognizable ?
Just reloooking them is enough to escape any pursuit (they were already renamed, all of them).
For instance, if I did not know it was a relooked Battlemaster, I would not have recognized it.
PGI is just doing some magic trick to appeal to the fanboyism of some of us Battletech fans using the names of those famous mechs to get some $$.
For instance, the new locust looks ugly compared to the "real" one. Same goes for the new Battlemaster. Original one design kicked ***. Reminds me those posters I had when I was err old teenager... (http://img.photobuck...lSchematics.jpg , http://i.ebayimg.com...t_id=8800005007 ).

Edited by Benden, 06 July 2013 - 01:37 PM.

[Tor Gungnir]

If I drew a purple Homer Simpson and called him Hemor Sompsin, would that not be copyright infringement?

Or better yet, as you suggest, I draw a proper yellow Homer Simpson but I make him thin and muscular.

If you can't get the rights to something, you can't just make a knockoff like that and call it a day.

Edited by Tor Gungnir, 06 July 2013 - 02:59 PM.

[AndyHill]

AFAIK PGI has the rights to use the original Locus, Shadow Hawk, Thunderbolt and Battlemaster artwork if they want to. The reason those 'mechs don't look like they do in the tech readouts is because PGI uses their own designs for all the 'mechs they create. In theory this should also keep them safe from legal action if they brought in Phoenix Hawks, Marauders etc. but it's considered too much of a risk (and there are some shady legal agreements I don't know much about).

[Wintersdark]

No they don't have rights to the artwork, but they do have rights to the name, concept and load out. Russ covers that in the ngng podcast. Also, Alex mentions it when talking about why he didn't use the bubble cockpit.

These Dougram mechs are safer though because its not an active IP. Macross however is active, and the rights holders there have shown themselves to be litigeous. Its not a matter of being right or wrong in that case - pgi cannot afford needless lawsuits, so its better to just not touch them even if they'd have a good defense (owning rights to the concept+load out and changing the artwork)

[IceSerpent]

Tor Gungnir, on 06 July 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

If I drew a purple Homer Simpson and called him Hemor Sompsin, would that not be copyright infringement?

Or better yet, as you suggest, I draw a proper yellow Homer Simpson but I make him thin and muscular.

If you can't get the rights to something, you can't just make a knockoff like that and call it a day.

What makes you think that thin and muscular yellow dude that you've drawn has anything to do with Homer Simpson? The protected IP is fat yellow dude that looks a certain way, not any vaguely humanoid creature that is painted yellow.

[CDLord HHGD]

Well, FASA had the ability to win the lawsuits though. But they didn't have the money. Harmony Gold et all could throw more money at it so while they didn't have the winning tale, they could afford to litigate FASA out of court. So FASA capitulated.

[Wintersdark]

cdlord, on 08 July 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Well, FASA had the ability to win the lawsuits though. But they didn't have the money. Harmony Gold et all could throw more money at it so while they didn't have the winning tale, they could afford to litigate FASA out of court. So FASA capitulated.

Exactly. It doesn't matter if you can win or lose, if you can't afford to fight. And that's the situation PGI is in.

HG/whoever would have every reason to sue, too, given they are making a new Robotech movie/show/product - it's an active IP apparently. Having much deeper pockets, the mere threat of suing would force PGI/IGP to settle, pull the mechs, and pay them off in a settlement to avoid the lawsuit.

As MWO is certainly making decent money even now, this would be easy money for Harmony Gold/Whoever.

[Meldric Ward]

Sorry that I did not have the time to read 35 pages, so I could be missing someone else asked before...

I am a founder and had 90 days of not activated Premium time in my account. Now I bought the big Phoenix package and the client tells me that I have 121 days of Premium left... According to my own calculations, this does not work out

90 + 90 + 30 = 210

So, what am I missing here?

[King Arthur IV]

hello pheonix ppl,
i have bought the pack 3 hours ago but i haven't received the extra 30 day pt. and beside the receipt, is there any other indication in game or in forum you are a pheonix backer?

[AndyHill]

Meldric, on 09 July 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

Sorry that I did not have the time to read 35 pages, so I could be missing someone else asked before...

I am a founder and had 90 days of not activated Premium time in my account. Now I bought the big Phoenix package and the client tells me that I have 121 days of Premium left... According to my own calculations, this does not work out

90 + 90 + 30 = 210

So, what am I missing here?

You will get the 90 when Phoenix pack is released (in October, possibly).

King Arthur IV, on 09 July 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

hello pheonix ppl,
i have bought the pack 3 hours ago but i haven't received the extra 30 day pt. and beside the receipt, is there any other indication in game or in forum you are a pheonix backer?

You will get the 30 day bonus premium on the next patch day (might be today, don't know for sure).

Also if you go to the Phoenix order page it'll show you what your current bought level is.

Edited by AndyHill, 09 July 2013 - 02:56 AM.

[Ralgas]

AndyHill, on 07 July 2013 - 03:24 AM, said:

AFAIK PGI has the rights to use the original Locus, Shadow Hawk, Thunderbolt and Battlemaster artwork if they want to. The reason those 'mechs don't look like they do in the tech readouts is because PGI uses their own designs for all the 'mechs they create. In theory this should also keep them safe from legal action if they brought in Phoenix Hawks, Marauders etc. but it's considered too much of a risk (and there are some shady legal agreements I don't know much about).

No they don't. Which is why the mechs don't more closely resemble the originals

Wintersdark, on 07 July 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

No they don't have rights to the artwork, but they do have rights to the name, concept and load out. Russ covers that in the ngng podcast. Also, Alex mentions it when talking about why he didn't use the bubble cockpit.

These Dougram mechs are safer though because its not an active IP. Macross however is active, and the rights holders there have shown themselves to be litigeous. Its not a matter of being right or wrong in that case - pgi cannot afford needless lawsuits, so its better to just not touch them even if they'd have a good defense (owning rights to the concept+load out and changing the artwork)

^1000 times this. IGN even received takedown notices over the 2009 trailer with regards to the use of Warhammer imagery, although no "in court" action was taken. Even going full "reseen" doesn't guarantee the ip won't be tested in court costing more than it's worth. The risk was also there with the phoenix mechs, although even through the fasa issues the ip holders never sought their removal, they just went in the vault with the HG property "just in case".

PGI (as noted in ngng#79) made sure it'd stay that way legally, which is probably why they stayed unannounced for so long (while the legal eagles hashed it out).

[Meldric Ward]

Thanks for the info. I was just confused that I got the 30 days already...

[wickwire]

can we get a Marauder II as next assault?



or a Behemoth/Stone Rhino?

[CDLord HHGD]

^^ No. Marauder - unseen. Behemoth/Stone Rhino doesn't arrive till much later.

[DirePhoenix]

Wintersdark, on 08 July 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

Exactly. It doesn't matter if you can win or lose, if you can't afford to fight. And that's the situation PGI is in.

HG/whoever would have every reason to sue, too, given they are making a new Robotech movie/show/product - it's an active IP apparently. Having much deeper pockets, the mere threat of suing would force PGI/IGP to settle, pull the mechs, and pay them off in a settlement to avoid the lawsuit.

As MWO is certainly making decent money even now, this would be easy money for Harmony Gold/Whoever.

It's only money for HG if they win. Which they wouldn't. And they know they wouldn't if no one is using the old art. Throwing up C&Ds only scares away people that don't know better, which is what HG is counting on.

Also I'm betting that IF (big if) they can even produce that live-action Robotech movie (it's not MACROSS, people. Macross is from different people who have moved the franchise far beyond the original art for years now), I'm betting that whatever they end up using for Veritechs/Zentraedi Battlepods don't look like the original art either.

[CDLord HHGD]

DirePhoenix, on 09 July 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

It's only money for HG if they win. Which they wouldn't. And they know they wouldn't if no one is using the old art. Throwing up C&Ds only scares away people that don't know better, which is what HG is counting on.

Also I'm betting that IF (big if) they can even produce that live-action Robotech movie (it's not MACROSS, people. Macross is from different people who have moved the franchise far beyond the original art for years now), I'm betting that whatever they end up using for Veritechs/Zentraedi Battlepods don't look like the original art either.

Even if you win, and PGI would be fighting for the use of the designs, not any monetary gain, then you still gotta pay the lawyers. HG can afford to keep their lawyers in court longer and they can use any number of dirty tricks to delay and prolong just so PGI's lawyer bill gets bigger. It's a gamble for HG, but they can hedge their bets that while PGI might win, they'd give up/go broke long before then.

[Wintersdark]

DirePhoenix, on 09 July 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

It's only money for HG if they win. Which they wouldn't. And they know they wouldn't if no one is using the old art. Throwing up C&Ds only scares away people that don't know better, which is what HG is counting on.

You don't understand. Its easy money for HG because they don't have to fight; all they have to do is demand a settlement that is less than the millions that a protracted legal battle would cost.

So often, people don't think this through. In IP law cases, its all about who has a deepest pockets to be able to simply drag a lawsuit past the other companies ability to fight it. The outcome is NEVER certain, but even if you think you can win, court costs are rarely awarded in these cases.

Thus the smaller company faces ruin simply by defending itself. Thus, its cheaper for them to simply settle even if they would have won.