359 replies to this topic

[Bhael Fire]

Canyon, Tourmaline, and some of the other maps are going to have a slight re-learning curve for many people used to the way those maps used to work. That's why I wish they would have implemented these terrain physics a long time ago. Hell, I find myself getting annoyed at Canyon occasionally, but once I find a spot that used to be traversable is no longer accessible, I move on to find paths that are. It's a relearning process.

But, these changes are here and I honestly think it's for the best. Once they fix all the kinks (i.e. the decorative environment pieces/props that are not part of the morph/procedural terrain meshes that need their collision maps adjusted so mechs can walk over them), people will get adjusted to the "new" old maps.

[LastPaladin]

Bhael Fire, on 03 July 2013 - 10:51 PM, said:

Once they fix all the kinks (i.e. the decorative environment pieces/props that are not part of the morph/procedural terrain meshes that need their collision maps adjusted so mechs can walk over them), people will get adjusted to the "new" old maps.

No need to wait, I've already adjusted. Jumpjet mechs only for me now, at least until we can know what map we are dropping into before we pick our mechs.

[LastPaladin]

Gaden Phoenix, on 03 July 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

And it greatly reduces sniping by lots as assault snipers now find it harder to move up high hills to spam their alpha strikes.

Only until snipers figure out that if they use a Highlander, Victor, or maybe CTF-3D, then they can get on those high hills with the added advantage that most brawlers will be completely unable to reach them up there now. Oh yeah, and they can just poptart if there isn't a suitable roost nearby, and everyone loves that, right?

[MAX3D2]

I personally hate it. The terrain slope was just fine the way it was. Why not work on other things instead of things that do not need fixing?

[arghmace]

This is a very welcome improvement to the game but needs some tweaking.

1. Pebbles of steel
If technically possible, make it so that objects lower than 2 meters (for example) aren't counted as slopes at all. You should be able to just step over rocks and little bumps. Cataloging every small rock and bypassing it independently is way too much work.

2. Speed of coming to a halt
When you run into a 45 degree slope, the mech shouldn't stop so suddenly but over a time of few seconds. Note that this would quite well fix the pebbles of steel problem too if the fix above is undoable. Let's say that a Jenner loses 50km/h per second when going to a 45 degree slope. So at 3 seconds it would come to a halt. Now when you run over a rock, you're gonna be on that rock for only a fraction of a second so the loss of speed would be hardly noticable.

3. Weight / size balancing
Mediums need love. It's simply not fair that a 45 ton Blackjack cannot climb hills any better than a 70 ton Cataphract. Perhaps the Dragon could be in the same bracket as mediums but all other heavies should be more clumsy. Or actually best just make it by weight class. Doing separate size classes for movement is way too complex for most people to understand and remember especially with no proper documentation in-game.

Edited by arghmace, 04 July 2013 - 01:22 AM.

[Baba Yogi]

This is just horrible. I dont even get why we needed somethin like this. When im playing the game i shouldn't be thinking about what engine says i can do. If it looks passable i should be able to do it. So many places where i am stuck because of an object just a litte bit higher than mech's foot. Im in a bipedal metal monster with a fusion reactor in it ffs. Where did all that power gone. Also it has not reduced the sniping if anything else increased it. Now you cannot maneuver to dodge snipe at those assault turrets because guess what you will get stuck. They just sit there and wait for someone to get stuck in their range. Maps like canyon(which used to be my favorite that one) are nightmare, bloody corridor match. No maneuverability whatsoever. Takes way too long to climb a hill. Btw all this experience coming from a centurion pilot.

I heartily believe this patch was the worst one i've ever seen pgi did. Such changes should be made while keeping gameplay in mind. I dont know if it is balanced or not(frankly i dont even care at this point if it is) but this change made the game much worse imo. It is not fun at all to brawl with slopes. I hope they take it fully back but i know they would not just adjust numbers a little every patch. Yes this is beta but frankly beta should resemble what the full title going to be. This game had zero content(maps are not content) no purpose behind anything other than fight so it relied heavily upon its gameplay. Now it is going down to subpar as well. Very, very disappointing...

[Inveramsay]

I quite like the idea of the system however I think it will require a fair bit of tweaking. Larger mechs should be able to step over bigger objects than smaller mechs. The penalty for running into a 46 degree wall is too severe as it is and I'm not sure the momentum is calculated correctly

[xDAMAGEx]

I like the slope ....but alpine and canyon kinda sucks now .... here's an idea... limit mech speed to 10 to 5 kph... basically it limits mech movement as intended but still allows "some" movement making the boards playable.

[Hydrophobia]

lolololol

I could see this one coming a mile away, people were claiming this would be the greatest thing since sliced bread before the patch, "yay! please nerf my movement!" they cheered... I wonder how many of them are the ones complaining no?

Luckily I cleverly timed my vacation so I wouldn't have to experience this patch... (never know, they might roll it back... but yeah, more likely I'll be crying too when I get back in a week or so)

[Amberite]

May I suggest that you refrain from further patches that implement new systems until such a time as you are able to convincingly prove that the extant issues pertaining to gameplay and balance are fixed?

This is primarily due to the fact that the modifications to movement are unsatisfactory and seem to have been poorly implemented. Many issues have occurred with stuck motion or the rendering of the vast majority of potential movement paths unusable. As you appear to have not tested this internally prior to releasing into the beta environment it suggests you require more dedicated time devoted to new systems before releasing them.

Thusly, completing current fixes and balance checks would allow the full weight of your staff focus to be devoted to any new system prior to release.

TL;DR?

Fix stuff rather than give us new cack that doesn't work right please.

[ChaosGrinder]

Prosperity Park, on 02 July 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

JagerMech feels Perfect! I just finished a very long tour of Alpine and can't be happier (except for the small bumps...)

I only have been driving that one chassis so far this Patch, but it seems great - the climbable parts of ridges are intuitive (and where I used to go anyways), the little "foot pathes" created by the level designers are realistic to climb (you slow down and stumble a bit when going up a windy, narrow 40 degree slope now).

I was always concerned, since Closed Beta, that the Mechs were behaving too much like wheeled vehicles. A wheeled vehicle can easily use it's momentum to go up steep hills, but legged Mechs don't have that same capacity because leg Actuators can only lift the Mech by so many meters/second, regardless of how fast you were running when you hit the slope. Yes, getting a running start always helps, but running fast into a hill won't give your legs the power to lift your upright BattleMech up that slope against Gravity. Wheeled vehicles have bearings that transfer the forward momentum into vertical travel; Mechs don't have wheels with bearings, and they have to mechanically lift their weight uphill with every step instead of having the luxury to simply transfer linear momentum directly into vertical momentum with wheels.

Anywho... just too many small bumps having too great of an effect - I would suggest adding a filter to only add the slowing effect after a Mech has traveled on a sloped plane (anything that trips the minor threshold) for at least the distance of 1 Mech's stride.... if possible.

Why don´t i wonder ? Allways creaming about stuff it´s common sense that it´s NOT a step in the right direction. Cream anyway !

And yet,the great devs remain silent Sad, this is,very sad.

[Flycatcher]

Well after playing for a couple of hours tonight I've decided to put this game down for a while in the hopes that this gets fixed. And I'm not just saying that.

My assault mechs have basically been rendered useless completely. After a little while I tried to start adapting to the changes but have given up because they way are completely stopped by anything other than a slight slope.

I turned to my lights but it is the same case with them.

My main comment would be: If you're going to try and be smart and make mechs slow down on steep slopes, give me damn 100 tonne mech some damn frakkin momentum! How is 100 tonnes instantly stopped the moment a slope gets too steep?

A little bit more research should have been put in to this before implementation.

[Ari Dian]

This movement adjustment need some serrious tweaking.

Good idea, bad excecution.


Some places i thought i would never move up with the changes and it worked without problems.

But i saw some places where i really dont understand why the movment is stopping.

For example: the trucks on River City. Maybe it will be better with destructable terrain. But right now its a joke. A 100t Atlas is stopping at this truck that is not higher as the knee.

Several small rocks. Just because the edges are so high (over 45°) my mech is running against a wall? A rock, that is not higher as the feet of the mech, is stopping the movment? Come on......

Take your team and work on ALL maps again. Remove everything that is a certain high from the movment system. Or turn it off untill you can fix it.

The way it is right now is nice (from the idea), but ruining the whole feeling of piloting a mech and laughtable when you are being struck at a tiny rock that the mech should be able to crush when stepping on it.

I would love to post a few screenshots, but these would be to many. Basicly every single piece of environment that has a edge over 45° is blocking the movement. No matter how high this edge or the whole piece is.
But on the other hand there are this stone pillars on Tourmaline near the starting point. And you can run through these. Even when they are 90°. They seem to count as trees. You run simple through these.

[Krazok]

The new movement behavior is just awesome! I played now every map and haven't had a problem. Yes, I was slowed down by some pebbles, that makes it more real. It is so great that maps are not just sniping anymore. Please keep this in. It is awesome how you have to focus on your enemies and surroundings! Got swarmed by light and medium mechs. Truely ugly how they can use there speed and mobility now! So much more fun playing again in groups which are not just assault-sniper mechs.

I'm an Atlas player and this is my favourite patch on MWO.

[Will Pike]

I just ran the new patch last night. I didn't have any problems with "pebbles of steel". Was able to climb quite a few hills by just going up at an angle instead of straight on.

[arghmace]

Flycatcher, on 04 July 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

My assault mechs have basically been rendered useless completely. After a little while I tried to start adapting to the changes but have given up because they way are completely stopped by anything other than a slight slope.

I turned to my lights but it is the same case with them.

I've only been playing with Dragons and only a few battles even with them. But I have no problems whatsoever climbing the slopes even in Canyon Network. Just examine the ground a bit and then zig zag your way up. It's slower for sure, like it should be. Haven't had that much trouble with pebbles of steel either, to be honest. Seems to me that whiners are once again exxaggerating the problems.

[Krazok]

arghmace, on 04 July 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

I've only been playing with Dragons and only a few battles even with them. But I have no problems whatsoever climbing the slopes even in Canyon Network. Just examine the ground a bit and then zig zag your way up. It's slower for sure, like it should be. Haven't had that much trouble with pebbles of steel either, to be honest. Seems to me that whiners are once again exxaggerating the problems.

*Nod*

[C E Dwyer]

I think in most part its the reduction in speed is over sensitive, rather than the objects

An example that I tried was in a commando in frozen city, there are a few nearly submerged buildings you hit these at 130kph the step up doesn't effect you, but going across it will cost you about 70kph the step off further reducing your speed to around 30kph, before accelerating, this 'roof top' is about two maybe three paces long, which seems extremely Excessive.

There are a few chest height ridges for a commando, which at speed you can get up as they are about the width of the mech but only just you come almost to a stop which again the speed bleeds off far to much for what ineffect is a ski jump which is more likely to launch a mech that size causing damage to legs than reduced is speed by so much so quickly

[Lord of All]

Taken from this thread

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2521389

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 04 July 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

my prefferred solution would be to put mech speed at 1-5 kph and bring back traversing anything up to 60 degrees including the rain troughs on alpine, but at only 1-5 kph so it remains unviable, but mechs dont get stuck so much. or maybe 5-10 kph?

My preferred method would be to use the damn slope equation created by Jordanus de Nemorein the 13th century. WHY are they trying to re-invent the wheel?

HERE is a simple calculator (obviously friction will be different for bipedal)

http://www.engineers...lope-forces.htm



ALSO it is moronic to say a certain tonnage cannot traverse a certain slope! That is at odds with the Physical universe we live in! I mean I know this is a game but it is supposed to be in the future not i another universe that has different physical laws.

The amount of slope a mech can traverse should be a product of it's weight, engine and traction. It's not Rocket Science People!

It's not like this is been documented before.
http://en.wikipedia..../Inclined_plane

[MUDDD]

I think I'll just wait for the next patch and see if you fix this. Oh and by the way you can kiss your $80 bucks for the Phoenix pack goodbye till you fix this AC 20s on the Jagger and over powered LRMs