359 replies to this topic

[Force Majeure]

Love the concept. Don't roll back! But please fix it cause it's broken right now!

I get stuck on small rocks and tiny variations in landscape, as if the code is arbitrarily applying the 45 degree rule, but not taking the size of the hill into consideration. Anything lower than the knees of my mech should not affect my movement (or very little).

Deceleration when hitting an incline is too abrupt. You should take inertia into account. I'm running at 80kph with a 80 ton machine and it feels like stepping into mud when the incline crosses the 20 degree threshold...
19 degrees: blazing ahead
20 degrees: I'm an old lady?!?
Maybe make the whole thing more gradual, with the speed penalty following a hyperbolic upward curve?

Also, I've experience a bug where I hit a small bump and my speed goes down to 30% (like the hill is between 20 and 45 degree), but my mech stops moving completely. My speed meter still reads 30kph, but no movement.

And how about a speed bonus going downhill? That would be nice!

And finally, I believe you should tweek the jump jets to help mechs get over steep hills, even after a +45 degree slope stops them. It's frustrating to be just a meter from the top, but because I have no more momentum, I'm jump jetting into place. With the way the models are made, it's would make sense that jump jets give you some forward trust. Maybe put something in the code that raises your speed to at least 5kph when you fire jump jets AND throttle is at full?

Edited by La Guillotine, 02 July 2013 - 07:29 PM.

[wDraco]

Mrllamaface, on 02 July 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

I like the concept, but as others have said some of the ground debris randomly causes you to stop. Also I am not a big fan of how the slow down is implemented. I go from 100% speed to 70% immediately then back up to 100%. It gives a very jerky feeling to the movement and feels just off to me. I would prefer a gradual decline in speed as you went up the hills. Not sure if it is possible but that would be my suggestion.

Big battle shooting at an Atlas then i stop and i think OMG HE GOT MY LEG I´M F... nop it was gest a pebble

[Bad Andy]

Think it needs a hotfix so you don't get stuck on rocks and small craters or a rollback if you have to but please, don't leave us playing like this the next 2 weeks.

[Teferi]

-New Movement Archetypes
-Mechs are now unable to traverse slopes greater than 45˚
-Mechs will now slow down when climbing slopes from 20˚ to 45˚

Well let’s look at this.

Should a mech be unable to traverse slopes greater than 45˚? Yes, it should and you my ask “why that?” Easy, because all militaries have a requirement that tanks have to able to traverse a slope of 60˚. So thinking that a mech can’t do the same thing as a tank when the mech is post to be faster and more maneuverable then a tank.

Now for part two of this.

Slowing a mech down starting at 20˚, I am going to said no. That is because 20˚ is nothing to even the smallest most under power vehicle so how would it slow down a mech starting at 20 tons? I would think it should start at 25˚ or 30˚ with the 60˚ being the top end of that.

[Bloody Moon]

While i could go into detail explaining how the Mech movement in MWO works i won't as i expect the Devs don't need their own work explained to them. To put it simply there needs to be a larger threshold on movement imparing effects, so below some height the Mech should simply ignore obstacles.

Edited by Bloody Moon, 02 July 2013 - 07:53 PM.

[Delas Ting Usee]

I get what's trying to be accomplish. I appreciate it especially with lights, mediums and jump-capable heavies and assaults. All land base heavies and assaults are now channel toward a kill zone - very nice!

BUT...when a jump capable assault gets stopped by a human-sized hand/guard rail at river city, and I mean FULL STOP, by a guard rail...a guard rail meant for humans...FULL STOP...uh yeah, you might want to fix that.

LOL. Just got stopped at river city again, this time by traffic! TRAFFIC! Those trucks on the roads. Apparently, an 80 ton mech can't step across or just crush it. NOOOO, the 80 ton mech has to come to a FULL STOP, and either go around it or backtrack and then move forward while engaging jump jets to hop over a truck that doesn't reach up to it's ankles.

Slopes I get. Those restrictions are AWESOME...guard rails and normal traffic - WTF?

So, as it has become PGI's SOP (Standard Operating Procedure), take the 4 months or so you usually take before anything substantial get's fixed. But please do get it fixed.

Edited by Delas Ting Usee, 02 July 2013 - 08:05 PM.

[MADTIGERSr]

Bad patch game no fun(

[Felicitatem Parco]

JagerMech feels Perfect! I just finished a very long tour of Alpine and can't be happier (except for the small bumps...)

I only have been driving that one chassis so far this Patch, but it seems great - the climbable parts of ridges are intuitive (and where I used to go anyways), the little "foot pathes" created by the level designers are realistic to climb (you slow down and stumble a bit when going up a windy, narrow 40 degree slope now).

I was always concerned, since Closed Beta, that the Mechs were behaving too much like wheeled vehicles. A wheeled vehicle can easily use it's momentum to go up steep hills, but legged Mechs don't have that same capacity because leg Actuators can only lift the Mech by so many meters/second, regardless of how fast you were running when you hit the slope. Yes, getting a running start always helps, but running fast into a hill won't give your legs the power to lift your upright BattleMech up that slope against Gravity. Wheeled vehicles have bearings that transfer the forward momentum into vertical travel; Mechs don't have wheels with bearings, and they have to mechanically lift their weight uphill with every step instead of having the luxury to simply transfer linear momentum directly into vertical momentum with wheels.

Anywho... just too many small bumps having too great of an effect - I would suggest adding a filter to only add the slowing effect after a Mech has traveled on a sloped plane (anything that trips the minor threshold) for at least the distance of 1 Mech's stride.... if possible.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 02 July 2013 - 08:05 PM.

[WM Doddster Vajda]

Movement is now broken in my opinion. When a mech gets caught on a rock that doesnt even reach the knee something is wrong. A 30M tall mech should be able to walk over it with no problem, a slight (very slight) slow down may or may not need to occur but a complete stop? Absolutely not!

Even a 20 ton mech would smash through the wall of a building, but now they are getting hung up and come to a complete stop. This should not be happening. 20 tons moving at 150Kph would totally devastate a building unless it is a hardened bunker.

The physics of it is all messed up. I understand that a mech should slow down when moving up an incline and by the same principle it should accelerate faster when moving downhill. but when a 2 ton rock brings a 100 ton extremely powerful machine to a complete stop something is wrong.

One step forward two steps back.

[LemonsDaBest]

Genius, i can totally feel how this game is becoming more realistic. i loved how Wot had this too with their physics upgrade and transitioning to a even beastly game such as mech warrior online is completely mind blown. Very nice work, keep it up!

[Kali Rinpoche]

Good idea, poor execution. River city has almost become unplayable for me (Stalker M) due to slight elevation changes of highways, streets, cars, rocks, even lamp posts. 45 degrees is too small of an angle imo. 60 degrees should be the cutoff angle to be more realistic. This makes the step banks off limits but prevents a dune or small crater from become a trap for heavier mechs. I spent my evening backing up 50% of the time trying to get off of a small snag. If I hadn't just unlocked master my Stalker would be parked until this is fixed. If this isn't fixed, mwo is going to go from 6 er ppc/dual ac20 boats to primarily LRM boats with everyone sitting at the map fringes with their backs against a high elevation.

Edited by Kali Rinpoche, 03 July 2013 - 06:27 AM.

[Delas Ting Usee]

It just dawn on me...if you start at upper on river city, you have an advantage like no other as the opposing team can only come up upper one at a time...hmmm...BROKEN!

[Raso]

Said it before, I'll say it again. Great idea but you should have looked at the maps a little before you did this.

Canyon Network needs a ramp to the upper level closer to both bases. It also wouldn't hurt if there were just a few more ramps along the canyon walls.
River City's upper city base is a veritable strong hold with minimal points of assault. Even getting to the other side of upper city just to get to the base basically entails you take limited paths. Meanwhile lower city is out in the open and open to attack from almost every angle.
Alpine is a mess. It's epic hard to figure out where you can and can not go. It's almost not even worth trying to traverse any incline for fear of not being able to crest a hill.

All that said I really do like this feature. A a medium and heavy pilot, primarily, I'm loving the ability to out maneuver me foe to a greater extent.

[Zosyn]

I mostly play an atlas and from my point of view this is SO broken. I'm constantly getting stuck on barely ankle high rocks or mounds of dirt. This patch has rendered most all of my mechs and preferred play-style (assault) completely obsolete. I hope this gets rolled back soon or I'm going to really start regretting the money I've spent on the game to date.

[LastPaladin]

Genewen, on 02 July 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

I have no idea how this could ever get to QA, much less even make it out of QA and into the game. Do you folks even play your own game?

The devs definitely do play the game, you'll even meet them on the battlefield from time to time. They always announce these big changes, and tell us they have been great fun in testing and we are going to love them. I can only imagine that the devs sense of "fun" is a bit disconnected from that of many players, from the amount of disappointment that seems to always follow the patches. Maybe they are just really hardcore strategic players and so every little difficulty is a fun new wrinkle to them, but to most players, a lot of these things are just annoyances that reduce the fun, especially when our input isn't sought beforehand, and not always paid attention to afterwards.

Not to say there aren't good things in most every patch, but I feel like there is always at least one BIG flub that leaves me scratching my head and thinking: "Are they just screwing with us?"

[Wintersdark]

I love the concept, but the execution is a bit rough. There's a whole lot of spots on River City and Canyons in particular where tiny little rocks and random bumps can significantly slow or full stop you for no apparent reason.

Also, there are LOTS of spots you can jump into now where you can't move out of... And if you can't move laterally, you'll only jump straight up and land where you started from......

Which leads me to: Please, please, rethink Jump Jets if you're going with this, and give them some forward thrust. There's no value in straight up and down bouncing anymore post-poptart nerf, and it's immensely frustrating to approach a slope, fire your jump jets a fraction of a second late, then bump into the slope which reduces your forward speed to 0. No matter how many jets you have, as soon as you make that bump, you're done, you just jump straight up, then land on the slope and can't go up anymore. Walk back down the slope, get some distance, build speed and try again.... It's just tedious and terrible feeling.

Jump Jets should be awesome with this new movement change, but while they are still helpful they're extremely frustrating to use too.

Canyons is particularly bad for that, as it's very hard to get a running start to build speed before jumping with those narrow canyon ledges.

[ManusDei]

The new movement sloping system is too aggressive. Can you please dial it back some. Your going to need to implement new maps that don't contain the amount of 45 degree slopes as they do now. By keeping the sloping system in its current state makes people stay to the flat parts of the map. I don't think the game is intended for pilots to be restricted to the same paths across the map.

I would go as far to say the new movement sloping system is much like the way ECM was to streak boats.....it made my mech useless. I feel my mech is useless at times trying to get up a small embankment having to squirm left and squirm right just to go 5 meters, a bit frustrating. If your going to implement a movement sloping system that makes mechs useless going across certain terrain you can at the very least supply us with a consumable module called "advanced slope turbo boost". Give us something in return for making the mech pretty much useless moving uphill.

In War the terrain is your ally. The new movement sloping system makes terrain the enemy. In boot camp they taught us "If you master the terrain you win the war" In this case the new movement sloping system changes all that to "avoid the sloping terrain or you lose your butt. You can use terrain for cover the way we did before the new movement system was implemented. I just think it really stinks.

Edited by ManusDei, 02 July 2013 - 09:23 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

Teferi, on 02 July 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

-New Movement Archetypes
-Mechs are now unable to traverse slopes greater than 45˚
-Mechs will now slow down when climbing slopes from 20˚ to 45˚

Well let’s look at this.

Should a mech be unable to traverse slopes greater than 45˚? Yes, it should and you my ask “why that?” Easy, because all militaries have a requirement that tanks have to able to traverse a slope of 60˚. So thinking that a mech can’t do the same thing as a tank when the mech is post to be faster and more maneuverable then a tank.

Now for part two of this.

Slowing a mech down starting at 20˚, I am going to said no. That is because 20˚ is nothing to even the smallest most under power vehicle so how would it slow down a mech starting at 20 tons? I would think it should start at 25˚ or 30˚ with the 60˚ being the top end of that.

imho 60 degrees sounds better than 45. 45 isnt much and seems too low. as many here have noted small obstacles etc are a huge problem, mechs need to be able to step over them or everyone will just take jumpjet mechs.

for inclines themselves the slowdown is critical. however it may well serve gameplay better to go back to or find middle ground with the previous system, but maintain the slowdown, so a stalker "could" climb a 60 degree incline, but only at 5 kph, and it would take a signficiant amount of time to get up it.

i love the whole concept, again, but it seems a bit to harsh right now, 1 concern of mine is keeping non JJ mechs as viable as JJ mechs, the current system favours JJ mechs a bit too much perhaps if we consider the long-term meta that may evolve from it.

all that said, im loving how the game is already changing because of this change overall. just need the issue with small inclines fixed. trying to actually get onto theta from 1 side is now nearly impossible in a stalker, the other side works fine (canyon) and yet viauslly neither incline is more than knee hieght it would appear, just one has a touch steeper angle - something an assault must be able to step over.

[zinetwin]

I agree with the physics suggestion. We're playing one of the most realistic mech combat simulators out there and the physics for how they move is cartooney at best. Mechs need inertia. There's already gravity on the maps, at least the map data said so, so you can easily work out the physics for a biped walking up a hill at any angle. Now coding that may be completely different, but cryengine3 should be able to do it from what I've seen of other cryengine products. At the very least give mechs momentum so that when you walk up a hill you don't go from 60KPH in an atlas to 0 in 1 second just by stepping in a hill. Considering it takes a good few seconds to get up to speed from a dead stop. Either that or make it start breaking legs so that we have some incentive to be more cautious with where we walk rather than trying to walk sideways or zig-zag up a hill that every other mech can navigate.
Also, heavies should be able to step over 1' tall walls. Really guys. Or at least crush the light posts and tiny concrete walls that get in our way. We know that a destructable environment is a long way away but in all of the other MW games you could at least walk over or through obstacles.

What's the point of having an all terrain biped bajillion dollar machine if it can be rendered useless by a common garden fence or some small rocks, let alone the pieces of your enemy which oddly enough don't seem to stop us that much.

Edit:
Or this is PGI's way of handling ppc boats. Just make them not able to move anywhere and require jumpjets for all maps.

Edited by zinetwin, 02 July 2013 - 09:56 PM.

[Sharknoms]

Teferi, on 02 July 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

-New Movement Archetypes
-Mechs are now unable to traverse slopes greater than 45˚
-Mechs will now slow down when climbing slopes from 20˚ to 45˚

Well let’s look at this.

Should a mech be unable to traverse slopes greater than 45˚? Yes, it should and you my ask “why that?” Easy, because all militaries have a requirement that tanks have to able to traverse a slope of 60˚. So thinking that a mech can’t do the same thing as a tank when the mech is post to be faster and more maneuverable then a tank.

Now for part two of this.

Slowing a mech down starting at 20˚, I am going to said no. That is because 20˚ is nothing to even the smallest most under power vehicle so how would it slow down a mech starting at 20 tons? I would think it should start at 25˚ or 30˚ with the 60˚ being the top end of that.

1)
We don't have wheels!
2)
We are sitting in giant stompy robots
3)
I'm not good at battle, but I doubt there is any Mech with climbing claws on his feet
4)
To climb such terrain use JJ, because that's the reason the were invented (Yes this means getting out of the Stalker and into a Highlander for example)
4.1)
Oh noes! I can't use my Stalker/whatevermechwithoutJJs in every way I want
5)
Real Life =/= Mechwarrior