276 replies to this topic

[Gaius Cavadus]

}{avoc, on 10 November 2011 - 08:10 AM, said:

Look to the Russian solution to the Tiger tank problem.

You're pretty much proving the analogy here. The problem is that playing as a Russian won't be fun.

Would you rather be the fodder as the T34 or the beast as the Tiger?

Faced with a choice like that I think it's incredibly foolish for anyone on this forum to expect faction balance.

Anyways, I've said my piece multiple times and this'll be my last post on the subject (not just this thread). The devs will do whatever the devs will do and hopefully they'll realize that the way the clans played out in the lore and TT will be bad for MWO.

[Kargush]

Cavadus, on 10 November 2011 - 08:27 AM, said:

You're pretty much proving the analogy here. The problem is that playing as a Russian won't be fun.

Would you rather be the fodder as the T34 or the beast as the Tiger?

Faced with a choice like that I think it's incredibly foolish for anyone on this forum to expect faction balance.

Would you rather be a **** invader or a glorious soldier of Mother Russia throwing back the facist dogs?

A point of note, Cavadus. Your kind of fun might not be someone else's fun, and vice versa. Your opinion (and that is all it is) is not an objective truth, it is merely a subjective take on things.

EDIT: The software blanks out the common parlance term for the political allegiance of the NSDAP? Wow.

Edited by kargush, 10 November 2011 - 08:50 AM.

[Havoc2]

Cavadus, on 10 November 2011 - 08:27 AM, said:

You're pretty much proving the analogy here. The problem is that playing as a Russian won't be fun.

Would you rather be the fodder as the T34 or the beast as the Tiger?

Faced with a choice like that I think it's incredibly foolish for anyone on this forum to expect faction balance.

Anyways, I've said my piece multiple times and this'll be my last post on the subject (not just this thread). The devs will do whatever the devs will do and hopefully they'll realize that the way the clans played out in the lore and TT will be bad for MWO.

You're over simplifying the comparison.

If the T34s tried to stand toe to toe with Tigers, they'd fail. Period.
The T34s didn't win because there were 8 of them, 5 Tigers so 3 were left over therefore they win. More numbers (even inferior) mean more targets to both hit and defend against.

If you're IS LLas has a range of 600m and the Clansman you're fighting has a range of 800m, you're pretty foolish to stand at 700m.
You'd be using terrain and teamwork to your advantage. And as previously stated, superior numbers to flank, cut off, disable etc. etc.

[Lightfoot]

I'm a purist. A pure MechWarrior 2-4 online and SP player and my pure wish is for MWO to succeed. MMO popularity competition is fierce. So whatever it takes to keep players playing.

Now we know the timeline was moved up for MWO to just before the Clan Invasion and ultimately the Clans will be included, but not at first. Once the Clans do invade the Inner Sphere will soon develop omnimechs also as well as some advanced weapons of their own. This is where some salvage and customization could create great depth to gameplay, if it is balanced.

I assume in many ways my 'mech or 'mechs will be like character classes with improveable attributes, just like my pilot's skills. This adds very high RP depth, better RP than crafting does in other games.

So all the above is why MWO will have Clan Tech and Omnimechs.

Edited by Lightfoot, 10 November 2011 - 09:23 AM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

It is likely that we will get the Clans whatever anyone says, we just have to hope that the game will be well established by then. An earlier post brought up what is possibly more of a problem - ensuring Clanners act like clanners ie strict one on one, low bidding etc Whereas we IS can go in for mass mugging, back shooting etc which won't require any policing. don't forget that this is stated to be urban combat - Clan mechs will lose some of their advantages in a close up brawl/ambush.Presumably the is will mostly be playing the defender with places to re-arm etc allowing mechs with AC's & SRM's to have a place in any combat over a few minutes.
Basically we have to have faith in the Dev's and their desire to have a successful and long lasting game. In the long run it will balance out - it's just going to be painful for the IS - but there again we have an advantage over the IF in the books - we know whats xoming and most of us will have played as the Clan's and will know what there mechs faults and weaknesses will probably be. A newbie in a clan mech is still likely to be fodder for a good vet in an IS mech. I will probably stay IS despite any (possible) disadvantages 'cos I have no (Clan) honour - all is fair in war

[Redraider]

Cavadus, on 09 November 2011 - 10:44 AM, said:

Not really. I'd actually rather be Marian than anything else but DHG was my old MW guild from 10+ years ago. That being said, if the advantage of the clans was consistent with canon I'd either just join the clans for no other reason than their tech or quit the game.

The game isn't even out yet and we already have a rage quit on our hands!

Can I have your stuff?

[UncleKulikov]

Kudzu, on 09 November 2011 - 09:55 PM, said:

Unless everyone is forced to use the exact same mech there will not be a perfect balancing system. BV, if done right for the platform and tested well, comes close enough.

And BV can be recalculated for this game based on the mechanics they have chosen.

[DFDelta]

UncleKulikov, on 10 November 2011 - 10:39 AM, said:

And BV can be recalculated for this game based on the mechanics they have chosen.

This. I don't quite see where all this panic is coming from.
Most of the problems caused by the clans can be dealt with by adding BV.

[Kudzu]

UncleKulikov, on 10 November 2011 - 10:39 AM, said:

And BV can be recalculated for this game based on the mechanics they have chosen.

Exactly my point.

[Kalunta]

Isn't this thread dead yet? Don't try to entertain fear with reason.

[Hodo]

snowridr, on 09 November 2011 - 09:50 AM, said:

Clan mechs are going to be in the game, not adding them would be disruptive to the game universe. However, the devs can make sure clan tech is rare, hard to maintain and very very expensive. Also, they could add a tonnage modifier to games, so clan mechs get rated at 1.5 tons to ever IS 1 ton. This will help balance the lance on lance games.

Explain how not having them would be disruptive to the game universe?

The game universe did fine for 6 years before the clans were a glimmer in some bad writers eye. Back when tactics and luck won you a battle, not ubermechs and rules lawyering.

[Duffanichta]

***, please close this thread it only another whining thread like some of my predecessors mentioned.

This is Mechwarrior not Battletech! SO stay open minded.

Balancing will be done! At least over time; when WE can PLAY the GAME and can help to do that.!.. (e.g. BV etc.. blabla)

Please ancient GODS help me -.- xD

[Strayed]

bleh just don't make clans playable, simple as. Have them appear as an ultra hard ai that bends you over and has your mech repetitively in 1vs1 situations. Gives reason for a PvE side of the game that won't actually be just simple tank, gank and spank. Do it like incursions in EvE Online and their sleeper ai.

Rewards can be one clan er small laser if your lucky and design blueprints that allow you to make mechs like the Bushwacker. Simples; no over the top unfairness in normal pvp.

[Sam Slade]

"It's Solaris time again folks..."

This is what we will have, be prepared.

[Duffanichta]

Quote

bleh just don't make clans playable, simple as.

I still, do not agree.

It would be a waste of opportunities to not include clan, _{may be i have a different view but in Mechwarrior Clan was never overpowered.}

For example I favoured the X-LPL in MW4 .
Even in Megamek (BT) Clan does not seem to be OP, _{for the same BV I could use (f.e.) lots of Demolisher Tanks and annihilate a similar BV of Clan forces.}
But I really do not want to talk about that because as I said before, this is Mechwarrior not BT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So if someone is complaining: please do that on a Mechwarrior-game-Base...... it annoys me**, I do not want to talk about that anymore..

**In the "old" days I never saw so much whining about an upcomming game (any good game).
In the past there was perhaps a more conspiratorial Community, then it is today....

Less people -less complainment...

HaHa..That is reminding me to some sort of Democracy.

I am so happy that MW(O) is finally happen. So I will not waste any time anymore to read some sad smalltalk

and I will be happy with the people that are as happy as me about it.. and ignore the rest.

-Seyla-

Edited by Duffanichta, 13 November 2011 - 04:34 AM.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Solution. Clan factions have a reduced capacity of slots for players "on mission" or battlefield or whatever.

Give them marginally better lasers, armour whatever, but restrict the number of mechs they can put in any single conflict.

End discussion.

With that said, if this game turns into generic battlefields and warsong gulch/WOW type engagements......many will pass.

At this point, with a more mature and developed following you'll need a little more to catch the communities attention.

Persistent battlefields and territory that we fight over and not some rehash of the TERRIBLE galactic map that we had in the previous MW games for xbox.

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 13 November 2011 - 04:41 AM.

[Bubba Gump]

I hate the clans, what they stand for,how they treat anyone not "Trueborn",how they fight. All I want to do is kill them, humilliate them at every turn. I want to take their tech and use it against them. They are nothing more than Space Natzies to me and deserve to be destroyed. ( yeah i know I started a fire strom with that last one) But anyhow I want them in the game. the clans have been a part of BT and MW for a long time it wouldn't be the same without them. They will be balanced into the game. They was balanced into the other MW games and im sure they will find a way for this one as well.

[CoffiNail]

Hodo, on 13 November 2011 - 01:29 AM, said:

Explain how not having them would be disruptive to the game universe?

The game universe did fine for 6 years before the clans were a glimmer in some bad writers eye. Back when tactics and luck won you a battle, not ubermechs and rules lawyering.

I always love this, Do y ou REALLY think that the clans were just pooped out of the writers heads in 1990? It has been in development for 2 or 3 years minimum. They dropped hints, Jaime Wolf used clan terms, Natasha Keresnky would not allow herself to be medical studies and in march 1989 when Sharpnel was released they had a interview with Natasha Kerensky. Pretty sure you can find it retyped on websites. They had a good idea, I would almost be surprised if they had the Clans fairly thought out in generic premise in 87 or 88 while the other house books were being written

[UncleKulikov]

Or, everyone can play together but BV is used to balance teams, and everything is less restricted, more fluid, and balanced.

Having dedicated Clan vs IS specific hoppers would be fine, but let's be inclusive here.

[Tsen Shang]

katadder, on 10 November 2011 - 04:41 AM, said:

clan ERlarge laser - range 25 or 750 metres, heat 12, damage 10
IS large laser - range 15 or 450 metres, heat 8, damage 8

My mech can fire 3 IS large lasers to 2 clan erLarge making a higher damage output for same heat output. yes the range differance is 300 metres, however as this isnt turn based and people will keep moving expect about 1 shot extra for the clans. ever played mechwarrior games? try keeping IS mechs out of range whilst staying in your own range, very hard to do.

Your IS mech generates 24 heat and 24 damage for 17 tons (5 per LL and 1 each for double heat sinks) and 6-12 criticals.
My clan mech generates 24 heat and 20 damage for 10 tons (4 per ERLL and 1 each for double heat sinks) and 2-6 criticals. That means that I can put in another ERLL and 3 double heat sinks, bringing this fight to:

IS: 24 heat, 24 damage for 17 tons (5 per LL and 1 each for 2 double HS) and 12 criticals (assuming a smallish engine)
C: 36 heat, 30 damage for 17 tons (4 per ERLL and 1 each for 5 double HS) and 13 criticals (assuming a smallish engine)

This gives our clan example 6 more damage (3 average damage a turn if he alternates to control heat) at a range of 300 meters beyond the IS mech. Vastly superior.