276 replies to this topic

[Halfinax]

Cavadus, on 09 November 2011 - 10:43 AM, said:

Yes, let's rely on a handful of roleplayers maintain faction balance. There's no way that will fail.

Totally not what I said, but if you want to keep twisting the meaning of things to make them fit your argument go ahead. If a random person realizes they can have better tech but always be outnumberd 2+-1 I'd expect the people joining each faction would be more evenly split.

I didn't start off as a Role Player, but I liked the looks of the IS 'Mechs more. I made my choice on aesthetics originally, and over time I've come to loathe the Clans and what they stand for.

[JzT Dolomite]

Cavadus, on 09 November 2011 - 10:30 AM, said:

Explain to me why would anyone would ever want a battlemech of equal tonnage over it's omnimech equivalent.

Outside of sheer aesthetic there is none. Omnimechs can be customized easily; battlemechs cannot. If you want to cling to canon then you must understand that even though an omnimech may be initially more expensive at purchase it will be far cheaper to modify whereas battlemechs can barely be modified and it's a huge undertaking.

So why would I, average Joe, ever want a battlemech when I could have an omnimech? What would be the point of battlemechs besides being a stepping stone to omnis?

Even the economics are on my side. If you make omnis more expensive it won't matter because a player will still save on costs as modification will be possible and cheaper which means the mech is more versatile. It would take 3 or 4 battlemechs to offer the flexibility of a single omni.

This will lead to battlemechs being excluded from from high level play while being cheaper in the long run.



If the only objective is to defeat the opfor then you would never want anything less than 100 tons. Creating roles for smaller mechs beyond grinding advancement will be based on how successful Piranha is with implementing objective based gameplay that plays to strengths of mechs below 100 tons.

World of Tanks never got that part down.

One battlemechs are cheaper and getting your hands on an Omnimech, even in the clans. Two repairs((which is hopefully going to be a factor)) will be more expensive for Omnimech tech than regular Battlemechs.

Some of us are forgetting that Omnimech tech is EXPENSIVE even for the clans, and sure as heck for the IS, so regular mechs will still be around.

[Haeso]

Adridos, on 09 November 2011 - 10:42 AM, said:

But IS is better for casuals, you don't have to be outnumbered, you don't have to put the max out of your mech, etc.

You act as though the casual takes the time to even look up which faction is more casual friendly. You're treating a casual as though he's just a hardcore player who is incredibly lazy or has little time to play lol.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

I have played plenty of TT matches against clans, the BV just does not reflect how
well the clans really do in a game! Lets say that BV balances most of the clan
stuff, but when you get in the game, and the enemy not only is more accurate
than you but outdistances you (against all in-game rules btw) then there's a
problem.

I'm all for clan tech, and omnimechs; bring them on!
however fix the tech so its clan tech; not MarySueTech

[Kalunta]

A Clan player is going to have to be much more patient for a drop than an IS player while being outnumbered if BV is taken into account (and hopefully have to win a bid for the battle)-- that alone should make playing IS more attractive to the "casual gamer" as most of them aren't patient and don't really care about anything other than joining a game and shooting as much stuff as quickly as possible --- I really hope that is not what MWO turns into.

[JzT Dolomite]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 09 November 2011 - 10:54 AM, said:

I have played plenty of TT matches against clans, the BV just does not reflect how
well the clans really do in a game! Lets say that BV balances most of the clan
stuff, but when you get in the game, and the enemy not only is more accurate
than you but outdistances you (against all in-game rules btw) then there's a
problem.

I'm all for clan tech, and omnimechs; bring them on!
however fix the tech so its clan tech; not MarySueTech

But that is one of the reasons why we love the setting: They wasn't Mary sues. They was able to advance the Tech to a point that the IS could not since the IS almost pouneded itself back to the stoneage thru((correct me if I am wronng)) almost 300 years of continuous all out warring.

[tyrone dunkirk]

Hey OP, quit your ********. The devs have said over and over that the game will be a day by day storyline in the events of the IS. The clans WILL show up. Theres nothing you can do about it. Wait and see how they handle it. Maybe they'll surprise you... then again, maybe not. But I have faith in PG and I'm sure they'll handle it right.
trolololol

[Kalunta]

"Explain to me why would anyone would ever want a battlemech of equal tonnage over it's omnimech equivalent."

They wouldn't if both were available to them. Of equal BV rather than "tonnage", most definitely.

[lyonn]

Just going to have some fun with this reply..

Based on the lore Clans could be balanced by following enforcements;

IS:Clan ratio drop of mechs 5:3

Clan pilots can only attack 1 target till its destroyed as per the lore fluff (enforced with game mechanics)

Clan pilots cant attack a mech already being attacked as per the lore fluff (enforced with game mechanics)

If a Clan pilot looses his Omnimech he has to take a 2nd line mech till he redeems him self (enforced with game mechanics)

If a Clan pilot looses his 2nd line mech then he has to take a Hunchback IIC till he redeems him self (enforced with game mechanics)

Clan pilots should get more points for disabling a mech than out right destroying it.

hehe

On a more serious note the owners of the TT property rights just need to suck it up and balance the clanners. Re write the source book already. GW does this all the time, and for their computer game they flat out ignore the TT values and just go with the general theme/idea of units.

Edited by lyonn, 09 November 2011 - 11:10 AM.

[CaveMan]

I'm really getting tired of this know-it-all. Acts like he's the only one that's ever played a video game.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

{JzT}Dolomite, on 09 November 2011 - 10:58 AM, said:

But that is one of the reasons why we love the setting: They wasn't Mary sues. They was able to advance the Tech to a point that the IS could not since the IS almost pouneded itself back to the stoneage thru((correct me if I am wronng)) almost 300 years of continuous all out warring.

I am talking from a game-system perspective, not in-game. Their in-game explanation is just as bad: the idea
that the clans could make better equipment off in deep periphery is akin to saying Puritan colonists in America
would have made a steam engine by the time the American Revolution occurred because they werent fighting a
total war against the French or Spanish...or even better; that Aborigines from Australia would have gunpowder
before anyone else because their tribe was isolated to the deep South Pacific!

[Halfinax]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 09 November 2011 - 10:54 AM, said:

I have played plenty of TT matches against clans, the BV just does not reflect how
well the clans really do in a game! Lets say that BV balances most of the clan
stuff, but when you get in the game, and the enemy not only is more accurate
than you but outdistances you (against all in-game rules btw) then there's a
problem.

I'm all for clan tech, and omnimechs; bring them on!
however fix the tech so its clan tech; not MarySueTech

Correct it is not perfect, but it is much better than tonnage, or C-bills, and with some tweaking by the devs it could work very well in the game and create balance between IS and Clan tech. I'm also unsure if you were using BV 1 or BV 2.0 rules, or how people are getting ranges beyond what the rules allow.

I'm not opposed to tweaking the tech some as well, but I am unfamiliar with the term MarySueTech.

[Joseph Mallan]

{JzT}Dolomite, on 09 November 2011 - 10:50 AM, said:

One battlemechs are cheaper and getting your hands on an Omnimech, even in the clans. Two repairs((which is hopefully going to be a factor)) will be more expensive for Omnimech tech than regular Battlemechs.

Some of us are forgetting that Omnimech tech is EXPENSIVE even for the clans, and sure as heck for the IS, so regular mechs will still be around.

I don't think there is much of a bonus for being Omni as it is for the basic tech. Face it and Omni is somewhat easier to fix, for Clanners, they remove the damaged section and replace it, Modular remember. A Clan Second-line Mech is just as deadly as an Omni due to the weapons not the modular construction. So I don't see why repair cost should be higher for Clan Omnis, by manufacturing standards it should be cheaper, as long as the replacement parts are in stock!

I'm a spheroid and I support this statement!

[Glare]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 09 November 2011 - 11:04 AM, said:

I am talking from a game-system perspective, not in-game. Their in-game explanation is just as bad: the idea
that the clans could make better equipment off in deep periphery is akin to saying Puritan colonists in America
would have made a steam engine by the time the American Revolution occurred because they werent fighting a
total war against the French or Spanish...or even better; that Aborigines from Australia would have gunpowder
before anyone else because their tribe was isolated to the deep South Pacific!

Ahahahaha no. It's more akin to some country in, I dunno, say South America that constatly fights among itself, constantly honing their weapons of war being isolated from the rest of the world as said rest of the world destroys itself in a nuclear Holocaust. The reason Clan stuff is so much better is because they didn't blast themselves back to what was effectively the Iron Age but with pre-surviving materiel and equipment.

[Kargush]

Cavadus, on 09 November 2011 - 09:44 AM, said:

I remember when the clans were introduced to TT.

It's been what, 2 decades?

Please, get over it. They're here to stay.

Clan tech isn't "unbalanced" except when there are no modifiers at all on their use (BV, c-bill cost, whatever).

Edited by kargush, 09 November 2011 - 11:11 AM.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

halfinax, on 09 November 2011 - 11:04 AM, said:

Correct it is not perfect, but it is much better than tonnage, or C-bills, and with some tweaking by the devs it could work very well in the game and create balance between IS and Clan tech. I'm also unsure if you were using BV 1 or BV 2.0 rules, or how people are getting ranges beyond what the rules allow.

I'm not opposed to tweaking the tech some as well, but I am unfamiliar with the term MarySueTech.

its a bit of a portmanteau; Mary Sue is generally a literary term for a character that is purely contrived
to satisfy an author's wish within a piece of work. A Mary Sue is perfect in every way, has no flaws,
can't be killed etc, this is also more seen the FanFiction stuff than anywhere else.

ergo MarySueTech is my portmanteau of explaining current clan tech; that its game breaking, doesnt
fit into the universe and appears to be extremely contrived.

[Creel]

Of course the clans will be a factor, but that doesn't mean that they'll be a faction. The only information we have about player organization revolves around house affiliation, and merc companies. Looks like it's going to be us against them, at least for the first year.

It also looks like standard deathmatch play is intended to be the exception, not the rule. It looks, to me, like we can expect team-based mission oriented play, rather than toe-to-toe slugfests.

[Randolph Carter]

There's still a lot of development to be done, so we can speculate all we want. Given the dozens of very similar topics out there to this one, I'm sure that as an aggregate we've done our part to make sure that these concerns will be on the developers' minds. There will be differences - maybe even from the canon unless we're going to go as far as scripting the ends of decisive battles and campaigns. As long as it remains recognizable to Battletech/Mechwarrior, I'm game. A lot of possibilities can open up here.

[Perfecto Oviedo]

halfinax, on 09 November 2011 - 10:41 AM, said:

I think they would also notice that they would always be outnumbered. I think you also assume that most are just going to run to Clan and virtually no one will stay IS. I for one will stay IS and I am sure there are plenty more that will too.

^That. I am a Clanner. The only IS power I have any real interest in playing is ComStar, but I'll take Clan Wolf over anything else, and in joining this forum and participating in conversations thus far, I find that the opinion towards the clans is pretty negative in terms of people liking them at all. Even if the ClanTech in MWO is better than the Inner Sphere Tech, I get the impression that the IS numbers will be bigger.

Frankly, I look forward to it.

[Creel]

The variety allowed by omnimechs is represented by Variants already established in canon. Being an omni doesn't make it infinitely customizable in an instant. there are standard packages for established variant loadouts. The advantage to Omnis is that the same specific chassis is easily reconfigurable between variants. i.e. reconfiguring from a MAD Prime, to a MAD D for a specific mission is an easily accomplished task. This doesn't make it any easier to create whole new variants for which existing packages don't exist.