276 replies to this topic

[UncleKulikov]

Cavadus, on 18 November 2011 - 09:15 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure I've posted again and again that you can have clans and even clan mechs, ya just can't have clan tech.

Aren't Clan Mechs Clan Tech?

And for your other points, entering singly would set you up with an array of team mates based on the BV of the mech you chose, like in WOT. If you took an Atlas that was pimped out, the game would assign you to a match with higher BV, and place you as the "heavy" of your lance.

If you entered as a partial team, the system would look at each mech independently and so assign you to a match with another similarily kitted lance (like a partial team of 4 atlases would face another team of 4 atlases).

If you entered as a full team, you could divide the BV however you wanted with your team mates. If anyone was a **** and started sucking more than his share, you could simply boot them and not play with that person anymore.

[Gaius Cavadus]

UncleKulikov, on 19 November 2011 - 11:28 AM, said:

...BV...

Oh, BV? The same BV system that's so messed up that it's getting entirely trashed in TT for a completely new system?

You sure you wanna keep regurgitating how awesome and perfect BV is? It doesn't even work in the boardgame.

[Garth Erlam]

This seems to be a Clan focused topic, and has thus been placed in the Clan area.

[CoffiNail]

Seems more anti-clan to me

[Kudzu]

Cavadus, on 22 November 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

Oh, BV? The same BV system that's so messed up that it's getting entirely trashed in TT for a completely new system?

You sure you wanna keep regurgitating how awesome and perfect BV is? It doesn't even work in the boardgame.

No one has ever said BV was perfect, but it works well enough even now. No one is saying "directly port the TT BV system in" either. The basic idea behind BV is sound, what it needs more than anything is polishing.

Using BV in MW:O would actually work out better than it does in the TT, as they can adjust it whenever they want and however they see fit, something you can't really do with a printed game system. They can also use much more complex calculations than a system that is designed around players having a pocket calculator to add the values up.

Having immediate data feedback from thousands of games makes a difference too-- if certain combinations of gear/weapons/etc are over/under powered it wouldn't be that hard to adjust the settings to take that into account. You could even go as far as to have multiple BV's depending on the mission type since that will make a difference too. (Your Battlemaster has BV: X in deathmatch, BV: Y in conquer, BV: Z in CTF., which values are used depend on which queue you are in)

[Sean Pryde]

A very easy way to solve this.
2-3 IS for every single clan player. How it is in cannon, plus it works very well to even the odds when it comes to Clan tech. A smart and patient clan player can handle 2 IS pilots, while on the otherhand two to three IS pilots working well together and not going all lonewolf can overcome a clanner.

However to help make sure the reverse does not happen, that is the widespread use of clan tech on the Inner Sphere side (which then leads to the clans being outgunned as well as outnumbered), getting clan tech as a Inner Sphere player should be incredible hard to do so, and very very very rare. To maybe add more cation to Clantech users, there should be a steep repair fee every time the mech is lost *as in about 10x higher than a equal weight IS mech*, and if you cant pay the fee the mech is lost.

just my two cents

[Smiffy]

I think clan tech could be implemented rather well with the intorduction of PVE elements to the game. making the clans playable once the devs make them available would be a mistake, instead make them non playable and make them a sort of challenge mode PVE experience for higher tiered players. An implementation like this would fit with the games direction and it would fit really well with the universe and time line, clan invasion expansion pack if you will. in these PVE challenge modes players would work together and defeat lets say a clan incursion into their factions space, and if the players were successful could take some clan tech as salvage.

an implementation of clan tech this way would increase end game playability, and make clan tech rather difficult to get a hold of, keeping it out of most games.

also in conjunction with an economy or trade system, clan tech could really add another layer to mech corp and house domination of the innersphere.

[Stormwolf]

Why is this thread even in the Clan subforum?

[Cyber Carns]

I know, imo just more clan bashing......

[Stormwolf]

Cyber Carns, on 22 November 2011 - 03:56 PM, said:

I know, imo just more clan bashing......

Yeah, it should be locked IMO.

Nothing productive can come from this thread.

[goon]

Clan tech will be a rarity that (depending on the type of salvage system the game introduces if at all) will be hard to obtain and expensive to maintain since you most likely won't be able to purchase Clantech just because they start invading. omnitech will be the same exact thing, powerful and useful but expensive as all hell but maybe not so hard to get but the price tag being the main prohibiting factor

LIKE IT SHOULD BE.

Edited by goon, 22 November 2011 - 04:06 PM.

[Kahali]

I believe that there are things you can do in the coding that the devs would have thought of to create balance between Clan and IS battles. At the risk of being flamed by all and sundry (and this whole thread is turning into one big flame) ideas include:

1. If IS sphere mech has been damaged by some other clan mech and you in your clan mech also fire on it you lose XP for breaking Zellbrigen

2. XP modifiers for damaging and killing different mechs - Kill a Clan omni with an IS - get XP bonus - Kill an IS Mech with an Omni and you don't get anywhere near the XP.

3. Range of kill - longer range kills/damage get lesser xp as you are putting yourself in lesser danger

4. Seeking weapon kills - Damage from seeking weapons earns less XP becasue you have to use less skill to hit someone.

5. Hit an ally with friendly fire - lose all XP from that battle.


By targeting XP you then open up and avoid the OP situation that is created by such advanced tech and makes you think a little more on the battlefield for those metagamers amongst us

Choose a faction based on what you like to do...- Do I like to kill a lot and have a really LONG grind to higher levels...if yes - then clan

Do I like to play IS and have a better ability to advance in levels and skill quickly then IS is the way to go.

Just an idea that I like - won't appeal to everyone of course.


Then there is a Tonnage balancing regime for each battle - it has been said before I think - 1.66 Refitted Innersphere = 1.3 tons of Clan second line = 1 ton of Clan Omni

Under this conversion - 1 Timber Wolf = 1 Marauder + 1 Hunchback

1 hunchback 2C = 1 Thunderbolt

Where this becomes difficult is where you have mixed battles later in the war when you had mixed Nova Cat / Inner sphere units, and when Wolf In Exile uses Inner sphere mechs as well in the Defense Cordon.

but some other formula could be worked out.

There are ways to do it. The sign of a great MMO is when an imbalance is found - the developers quickly patch it to iron it out. Navyfield (it is like WOrld of Tanks with Battleships) does this very well. When an OP is found - everyone of course gravitates towards it, complaints are made and a balancing set of code is created. Too easy - keeps the devs in a job and the game interesting...and I enjoy watching the howls of anguish from the guys who just found out their uber-weapon is not so uber anymore....

There are ways and means.

cheers

Long Live the St Ives Compact!

[dm5k]

What a horrible topic.

[Halfinax]

simon1812, on 18 November 2011 - 08:41 PM, said:

Cadavus u r dreaming, no publisher or developer that respect itself is going to make a Battletech (Mechwarrior) game without adding the clans, thats it!! thats all the argument I need, the clans r just too darn popular!!!.

but still

so what? what if the clan tech offers the best of the best? they would be like the equivalent of most high end weapons and armors in most mmorpg, advancing in lvl and skill means getting better equipment and I think that what the clan will represent in this game high end equipment, it is easy to assume that the best players will indeed end up sporting clan tech, and it would fit the battletech universe lore wise, IS warrior got their hands in clan tech by trade or isorla, and it is know that IS factions built upgraded version of old IS mechs to match the clans versatility, if developers take that into consideration it will be possible to have IS mech not out shinned by the clan omnis from a technical point of view.

u sound like you want to get rid of the mustang because it will be unfair for the ppl that stick with their T model.

I agree with some of the general sentiment of Cavadus' post to be perfectly honest. The clans and as a result Omnimechs bring a relatively high level of imbalance to the game system. Where he and I differ, and often butt heads, in view points is that I believe the through and only through an abstraction of Battle Value can we achieve balance. The TT version of BV is obviously in compatible with a full on FPSimulation version of the Battletech franchise, but an abstraction of that system could be implemented to be balanced and fair within the MechWarrior game system.

[CaveMan]

This thread is still going? Sheesh.

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

haters gonna hate, and iam gunna rant the reason clan have the better tech iis because it adds diversity, and that diversity gives the clan there identiy take away there advantage and your left with the inner sppere with a diffrent phiosophy to the way of life... which would be disregarded in a borad and video game, conclusion, clan techs "op" for a reason, stop whineing and deal with it

p.s as for omni mechs no, no there not op, they have a great disadvatnage, there stuck with default armour engien and internal structure stats, where as a battlemech can upgrade all... only diffrence is Omni can accept ALL weapons hence the word "Omni" where as a battlemech has hardfixed points...again not OP

p.p.s btw fero fibours and endo steel takes up criticla slots, giving omni mechs anothe disadvantage of less space to mount weapons...

Edited by Kodiak Jorgensson, 22 November 2011 - 07:18 PM.

[Ayal Nath]

Didn't they say there would be PvE added at some point? I don't know about you, but I think facing some clanners co-op with my friends and finding it a challenge (as in actually having the possibility of losing) rather exciting. In fact we NEED clan if PvE is going to happen, as non-player mechs need that sort of advantage. Being clan is as good a reason as any for it.

[Zureal]

waw, this is long, and honestly i think the OP has made some vary greviously bad assumptions. First off, ill take a Highlander over a Sunder ANY day. its a better machine, PERIOD. The only thing the Sunder has better is it can fill a few more roles, but overall, ill take the Highlander over the Sunder no matter what role we are playing. Is Clan Tech better? Yes, its part of what makes them Clan.
Another thing that is bothering me is that you seem vary unfamiliar with the facts of that time period, or the acumpaying fluff. Hell, untill the mid to late 3060s Clan tech was EXTREAMLY hard to get a hold of by IS powers.
Furthermore, it was VARY common for a IS Regiment, thats 108 mechs, to fight a SINGLE Cluster, thats 75 mechs, in any given fight. Take that into account and IS vs Clan engagments seem vary fair. Its the IS NUMBERS that make up for Clan Tech advantage during the early 3050s.
Oh, and FYI, ill still take my GrassHopper over a Summoner... err Thor ANYDAY. Clan Tech or no. Hell, if anything, You can pilot a clan tech omni and ill school u and laugh the whole time and then as your losing in your fancy Timber Wolf / MadCat ill DFA your face. God i hate how you think that clan tech is the end all be all. it is NOT. You simply have to use your head , doint be a moron and just rush into a open feild against a WarHawk Prime in a Atlas.

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

Zureal, on 22 November 2011 - 08:42 PM, said:

waw, this is long, and honestly i think the OP has made some vary greviously bad assumptions. First off, ill take a Highlander over a Sunder ANY day. its a better machine, PERIOD. The only thing the Sunder has better is it can fill a few more roles, but overall, ill take the Highlander over the Sunder no matter what role we are playing. Is Clan Tech better? Yes, its part of what makes them Clan.
Another thing that is bothering me is that you seem vary unfamiliar with the facts of that time period, or the acumpaying fluff. Hell, untill the mid to late 3060s Clan tech was EXTREAMLY hard to get a hold of by IS powers.
Furthermore, it was VARY common for a IS Regiment, thats 108 mechs, to fight a SINGLE Cluster, thats 75 mechs, in any given fight. Take that into account and IS vs Clan engagments seem vary fair. Its the IS NUMBERS that make up for Clan Tech advantage during the early 3050s.
Oh, and FYI, ill still take my GrassHopper over a Summoner... err Thor ANYDAY. Clan Tech or no. Hell, if anything, You can pilot a clan tech omni and ill school u and laugh the whole time and then as your losing in your fancy Timber Wolf / MadCat ill DFA your face. God i hate how you think that clan tech is the end all be all. it is NOT. You simply have to use your head , doint be a moron and just rush into a open feild against a WarHawk Prime in a Atlas.

well put, gave me a good laugh too maybe if it where a K Atlas ahahahaha

[Seeificare]

Should have started it later in time. That way clan technology isn't so important knowing some of the the clans have been conquered and most of the IS has that technology anyways. Should have started right after IS tryed and failed to take the Ghost Bears I'm sure the trailer would have been awsome watching the IS get their but kicked in that epic space battle.