102 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Fast Assaults in game is better than the current PPC yawnfest any day. I say yes to unrestricted engine rating for Assaults.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 July 2013 - 09:22 PM.

[Victor Morson]

El Bandito, on 07 July 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

Fast Assaults in game is better than the current PPC yawnfest any day. I say yes to unrestricted engine rating for Assaults.

For a week or two sure.. after that, it's not much better.

I can see no reason you'd ever want a medium or heavy or slow assault if these are available with the kinds of hard points & hotboxes they have.

[Kobold]

Sephlock, on 07 July 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

FTFY

8 of anything sticking together as a team will roll a pug enemy team.

[EvilCow]

The horror, assault mechs assaulting.

[El Bandito]

Victor Morson, on 07 July 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

For a week or two sure.. after that, it's not much better. I can see no reason you'd ever want a medium or heavy or slow assault if these are available with the kinds of hard points & hotboxes they have.

So what if they have hard points? They will have not much space for big weapons if they use Std engine. What are they going to put it inside? Medium Lasers? If anyone go XL in an Assault mech and try to brawl then that guy is simply dumb. If you are going for XL engine, then you might was well pack big weapon and snipe. Easier to get a kill that way.

This fast assault thing won't work in pugs, where most people play.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 July 2013 - 09:48 PM.

[Monky]

Fast assaults are problematic due to the banzai charge/conga line effect when in organized play. About the best counter to them is high alpha boats for knocking out XL engines.

A solo queue and reworked team queue would at least fix the pug half of the situation.

[El Bandito]

Monky, on 07 July 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

Fast assaults are problematic due to the banzai charge/conga line effect when in organized play. About the best counter to them is high alpha boats for knocking out XL engines. A solo queue and reworked team queue would at least fix the pug half of the situation.

Considering how the current meta is already high alpha boating, fast assaults are dead on arrival. Not to mention the terrain movement change means brawler Assaults are BONED, fast or not.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 July 2013 - 09:51 PM.

[xenoglyph]

Victor, you exaggerate so much. Been playing since June 2012. Fast Awesomes have never been that fearful, especially not the SRM ones. The fast MPL boats were effective sometimes, but they were still a high risk build. You act like fast 8 man Awesome squads was a normal thing, but it wasn't. I remember running into only a handful during all of CB, and they were all Goons. They weren't even that good.

There was WAY more variety during closed beta during the period of 'unrestricted engines' than there is now. Waaaaaay more. To hear it from you everyone was driving Awesomes.

[Victor Morson]

Otto Cannon, on 07 July 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

Considering the massive weaponry sacrifice you make for speed builds I can't see them ever being a big thing in the 8 man queue,

El Bandito, on 07 July 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

Considering how the current meta is already high alpha boating, fast assaults are dead on arrival. Not to mention the terrain movement change means brawler Assaults are BONED, fast or no.

Stalker? LOL

Welcome to the high alpha, high speed meta. Please, enlighten me as to why I'd ever want a Stalker over that? Or any other assault? If you need jump jets, you've always got the Victor.

xenoglyph, on 07 July 2013 - 09:53 PM, said:

Victor, you exaggerate so much. Been playing since June 2012. Fast Awesomes have never been that fearful, especially not the SRM ones. The fast MPL boats were effective sometimes, but they were still a high risk build. You act like fast 8 man Awesome squads was a normal thing, but it wasn't. I remember running into only a handful during all of CB, and they were all Goons. They weren't even that good.

There was WAY more variety during closed beta during the period of 'unrestricted engines' than there is now. Waaaaaay more. To hear it from you everyone was driving Awesomes.

When the Awesome came out, before restrictions came into place, I entirely disagree. There was simply no heavy that could match the firepower + speed, nor could most of the mediums; for a few kph loss - just a few - you can have twice the armor and firepower. There's just no room for a sub-100 medium when assaults can move at mid 80s.

We won't need SRM Awesomes this time out. The BattleMaster in the above link has the same firepower of a Stalker, at medium speeds. Why would you ever take a Stalker?

I suppose time will tell but I have a feeling this is going to get resurrected in November. Mark my words.

Edited by Victor Morson, 07 July 2013 - 10:00 PM.

[Otto Cannon]

From what I remember about the Awesome cap rushes the main point was surprising the other team before they were expecting contact. An uncoordinated defence couldn't kill them all before the cap win because they had the combination of high armour and just enough short range firepower to clear and then defend the cap square when focus firing.

To be honest though I don't think it was an unstoppable force for another good 8 man team, they just liked using that tactic to win as fast as possible when pugstomping. Any 8 man team would destroy pugs and regularly did, the goons were just more efficient because they never pretended it was a fair fight and did speedruns.

Considering the massive weaponry sacrifice you make for speed builds I can't see them ever being a big thing in the 8 man queue, and unless someone syncdrops 8 and does a goonzerg the most you'd get in pugs would be 4 which wouldn't guarantee a win or be more scary than 4 stalkers.

[xenoglyph]

Victor Morson, on 07 July 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

There was simply no heavy that could match the firepower + speed, nor could most of the mediums;

The original cheese build, the splatcat, was superior to the SRM Awesome. The Hunchback 4SP had 3 missile hardpoints back then, yes? I would argue that it too was superior. The Centurion A was also very potent back then and I would personally take it over the Awesome.

[El Bandito]

Victor Morson, on 07 July 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

Stalker? LOL Welcome to the high alpha, high speed meta. Please, enlighten me as to why I'd ever want a Stalker over that?

Because you are tired of playing Stalkers, maybe? As I said, this will require groups dropping together to work. Pre-mades can roll over pugs using any tactics anyway.

Assaults are very easy to shoot at even if they are fast. One thing Assaults can't change is their profile. If weight restriction is implemented, you will see them even less.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 July 2013 - 10:19 PM.

[Fugu]

I don't recall Awesomes actually being that awesome ever.
I do however remember the reason why engines were restricted - Fastbacks.

Remember Swaybacks carrying a metric **** ton of meds going as fast as a scout? They didn't even have heat problems back then, you coldn't shake them off and in a Swayback the XL is actually hard to hit - especially at the speeds they we going. 80 km/h were a joke to them.

I do believe the Battlemaster is going to reign supreme for a good while, but not for speed. Ledges and them not having to expose themselves much to get a line of fire is wheres it going to be at.

[xenoglyph]

Fugu, on 07 July 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:

I don't recall Awesomes actually being that awesome ever.
I do however remember the reason why engines were restricted - Fastbacks.

Remember Swaybacks carrying a metric **** ton of meds going as fast as a scout? They didn't even have heat problems back then, you coldn't shake them off and in a Swayback the XL is actually hard to hit - especially at the speeds they we going. 80 km/h were a joke to them.

I do believe the Battlemaster is going to reign supreme for a good while, but not for speed. Ledges and them not having to expose themselves much to get a line of fire is wheres it going to be at.

For the record, the actual build used small lasers. They'd get annihilated today.

[kesuga7]

crap if the battle master can go that fast well my 9m and PB (soon to be) are funked

but then again speed is basically what saves the 9m and PB (at least for me)

Edited by kesuga7, 07 July 2013 - 10:30 PM.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

Victor Morson, on 07 July 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Look upon this monster, and you will know horror:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7a98ef85957e151

Now, dropping the engine to the the 385 range and putting on some more DHS will solve your issues if you think that's way too hot (it probably is)..



The Orange Square is likely where your view is about be, the red square is where those guns are. Talk about a ridging machine and an amazing gun layout for something that will be able to move almost 40% faster than a typical Highlander.

lol your 6ll battlemaster pales in comparison to my 8LL swayback. with a std 100 engine and 10 standard heatsinks it has devastating speed, maneuverability, heat efficiency, and an amazing .5 tons of armor. So i have one question how will you kill me in this ***** mech you call an assault? Btw here is the build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8c9cbc2dcc3eb03
This is the meaning of min-maxing lol.

[xenoglyph]

POOTYTANGASAUR, on 07 July 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

lol your 6ll battlemaster pales in comparison to my 8LL swayback. with a std 100 engine and 10 standard heatsinks it has devastating speed, maneuverability, heat efficiency, and an amazing .5 tons of armor. So i have one question how will you kill me in this ***** mech you call an assault? Btw here is the build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8c9cbc2dcc3eb03
This is the meaning of min-maxing lol.

Even if what you posted is total rubbish the name alone deserves a +1

[Victor Morson]

POOTYTANGASAUR, on 07 July 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

lol your 6ll battlemaster pales in comparison to my 8LL swayback. with a std 100 engine and 10 standard heatsinks it has devastating speed, maneuverability, heat efficiency, and an amazing .5 tons of armor. So i have one question how will you kill me in this ***** mech you call an assault? Btw here is the build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8c9cbc2dcc3eb03
This is the meaning of min-maxing lol.

I'm not even really clear what you're getting at. You took a perfectly runnable build and countered with an hilariously terrible one. I'm lost?

[Josef Nader]

I played before engine restrictions, and I remember the reasons they were put in place were the Slunchback (massive XL + 9 small lasers = running down Jenners and burning them to death in a fiery conflagration) and the Trollmando (ran so fast it made the lagshielding of lesser lights look paltry in comparison).

I remember the Honey Badger Awesome, with an XL400 and 7 medium or medium pulse lasers, and/or a handful of streaks. They were adorable, not terrifying, and one of the only things the Awesome was good at. The death of the Honey Badger was the death of the Awesome. It's not good at much of anything beyond LRM boating right now.

Trust me, super fast assaults aren't a problem. There comes a point where trading tons of engine weight for a slight increase in speed is just laughable, and a real assault who used his weight more wisely is going to punish you for your foolishness.

I'd like to point out that the Battlemaster gains 10 kph from it's stock engine for a puny 12 kph increase. If you wanted to keep a standard, this would cost you 25 additional tons. If you use an XL, you save half a ton, but you also introduce a -massive- vulnerability into your mech. Dying to a loss of only 72 points of armor (if you didn't put -any- armor on your back) is pathetic for an Assault mech.

Long story short, I wouldn't worry about speedy assaults for a second.

[PanzerMagier]

Oh gosh! Assaults running 80kph! Whatever will we do Victor Morson...

*Hgn/Atlas casually swats the XL engined assault mech*

Wow that was sooooo hard. Thank goodness I have common sense and I didn't just **** my self when I saw an assault mech moving faster than 60kph.

Honestly go spread your fear mongering somewhere else. I am so tired of petulant obnoxious immature kiddies bawling their eyes out over content that isn't even released yet.