132 replies to this topic

[Metallis]

redlance, on 10 July 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

the seismic module does a few things to the game for me (a scout)

-it devalues the scout role since everyone has a powerful module that does most of this for them.

-it completely nerfs things that should never be nerfed in any FPS, cover, surprise, flanking...

-as a light pilot, rolling with a wingman and setting up the perfect flank on a lonely highlander was the most pulse pounding and if properly executed, the most rewarding experience, now since snipers and EVERYONE can see us coming no matter how clever we are when we use cover, there is no more excitement, no more mystery, and the thrill of the pounce has been taken out of the game.

- using the module my self makes my job easier at the cost of fun. its to easy, it's just boring. being a good scout used to be about finding the best sight line while exposing yourself the least amount possible. there was strategy, now i just run around until i get a blip. boring.

scouting used to be fun, and an active role, now its lame and you just sorta call it in. ambush tactics were the most risky and fun thing to do in a light, and now that's been effectively nerfed. honestly i feel like its a module that shouldn't exist in a game like this, we have scouts.

in my humble opinion PGI has effectively replaced the scout with a module that any assault can take, and now all the mystery is gone, all the RISK that should come with checking your corners, there is no risk any more and so there is no more fun.

and they have once again taken a huge DUMP on players who love lights. it's an out right slap in the face to the light pilots out there. as if the game isn't already stacked against us enough already, the high point alphas that kill us in one shot, the pint point snipers, the only thing we had going for us was superior team work and BALLSY ambush tactics. RIP light warriors. your now just a waste of tonnage.

any ways i'll go and pay 20 bucks for a 4 machine gun locust now. yea right...

I could not agree more with redlances statement. Lately there seems to be an all-out assault on light pilots and their mechs. In addition to what redlance mentioned, throw in the landscape changes where we stop on a dime tripping over a pebble or our inability to climb up hills (which is always fun when you’re running for your life) Just about every advantage lights have has been slowly stripped away.

I am a hardcore light pilot. And I will try to adapt to yet another attempt to make the lights extinct. But it's getting difficult!

Edited by Metallis, 11 July 2013 - 07:25 AM.

[ICEFANG13]

Viktor Drake, on 11 July 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

Well I applaud you for adjusting tactics to deal with siesmic detection, that is what more people need to do but it still appears your complaining about having to adjust tactics.

Honestly, 99% of the problems people complain about can be solved by changing tactics. Sure it harder and/or requires more skill but it is not the games fault if people are lazy or want EZ-mode rampage for their perfered mechs.

For example, my perfered mech is a QD, a 60 ton mech the size of an Atlas and though quick at 98 kph, no where near the speed of most light mech builds. Yet some how, some way I don't seem to have a problem with getting around a flank or ambushing an enemy. Just two nights ago in fact, in a single match I managed to sneak up and core out 2 enemy mechs from the rear. I do it all the time.

Now honestly, if I can do it in a 60 ton QD the size of the Empire State Building, how can it be so hard for light mechs to do the same thing.

Heck I will go one further and turn it all around on any light complaining about siesmic. One of the things that makes my QD so SUCCESSFUL at ambushing and flanking IS seismic sensors. By using seismic for example I can see where the enemy is rather than making blind manuvers. I can also generally determine their movement directions and facing just by watching the minimap which in turn allows me to approach from behind or with some other tactical advantage. Hell siesmic should be considered a godsend for Light mechs simpily because your not going to find yourself jumping or running over a hill only to find the entire enemy team standing there with guns trained on you.

Basically if your in a light mech and NOT using seismic to plan out your approach vectors and lines of attack, then your doing it wrong.

In the end seismic confers just as much advantage if not moreso to a light mech than any other weight class IF the light mechs mount it and IF they actually use it tactically and with skill.

Change tactics? I had 2 SRM-4 and 4 Small Lasers on the Jenner, what tactics should I use to avoid detection out to 400m?

Or do you mean I should being PPCs like everyone does. That's a great idea.

[Draz McMillen]

The first step to fixing Seismic Sensor as far as I am concerned is to have it only register when the mech mounting the sensor has come to a complete stop for 5 to 10 seconds or how ever long it is decided that such a sensor would need to register the ground vibrations.

[Roland]

Quote

Sure it harder and/or requires more skill but it is not the games fault if people are lazy or want EZ-mode rampage for their perfered mechs.

You mean EZ-Mode like mounting a module on your mech so you don't have to have any sort of situational awareness to know whenever an enemy mech is within 400m of you?

DERP.

[Novakaine]

Jebus ya can't have it both ways.
And not everybody has one hanging off thier lower actuator.
Stop the crybombs before they nerf it into another near useless piece of junk.
Just stop it.

[Dawnstealer]

As someone who pilots scouts and assaults, Seismic has its uses, but is way too powerful right now. Something that gave a general location would be fair and have it less accurate the lighter the mech.

Realistically, even a Spider is THIRTY TONS. Think about how heavy that is. The car you drive MIGHT be two and that would show up on any halfway decent current seismic sensor.

But game-wise? It's an overpowered module, no question.

I was in a Highlander last night being stalked by a spider and I could line up my shot before he popped out of cover. While it was awesome for me, the ECM-covered spider was screwed. Which is good and bad.

Compare this to the night before when I was running my ECM Cicada with a TAG, staking out a common pathway, waiting to TAG targets under ECM. Sure enough, they started stomping by unaware I was there. I turned in place, apparently enough to pop up on seismic, and was obliterated. My ability to scout and spot was completely wiped out by Seismic.

I'd be willing to split the difference and have a weaker idea of where they are (rather than pinpoint) and less certainty depending on how light they are.

[Tennex]

now if they called seismic sensors 360 radar. and you could put it on passive, light mechs would no longer have an issue.

Edited by Tennex, 11 July 2013 - 08:24 AM.

[GingerBang]

Void Angel, on 10 July 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Much of what I'm about to say was pointed out in the initial feedback poll for the Seismic Sensor, but while it's not my intention to merely rehash old discussions, I do feel that a discussion of how Seismic Sensors affect the game now is useful. Now that the dust has settled, as it were, and I'm starting to see the module more often, I can give more comprehensive feedback - and collect other people's opinions as well.

My experience with the sensor boils down to this: With my Atlas, it's a powerful situational awareness tool which allows me to keep tabs on people trying to get into my rear arc. I can see if people are sneaking up on me, or trying to sneak past me for a base cap - or if I'm about to lumber around a corner and into their entire team. It's a fun, and very useful, module.

With my Spider, the Seismic Sensor is a pestilence from heaven, sent down to punish me for my wickedness in choosing a light Battlemech. In combat, being mobile and unpredictable is a large part of what the Spider does. I don't have as many hardpoints as other lights, but I'm very quick and agile. Against anyone with a Seismic sensor, however, I'm always visible - they can see me through walls, they can see me through solid rock... they don't have to play the "which way did the Spider go" game: they know exactly where I am. Sure, I could stand still and disappear from the sensor, but standing still like that is very dangerous for a light - and as soon as I move again, he's got me. Playing against an opponent using this module feels very punishing at times. It's like reverse-ECM, but there's no counter.

The Seismic Sensor is a fun and very useful module - probably the most useful module for any brawler or scout to have. But the range and utility of the module hits lights very hard - and at a time where I understand that many players feel light, fast 'mechs are going the way of the Dodo.

Does anyone else find it frustrating to fight opponents using the Seismic Sensor?

It is non-bannable wallhacks, that is all.

[Prezimonto]

I've essentially stopped playing my Spider since this module came out. I'm only viable again bad players and players without it. It's easy to tell if someone has it... after you walk around a corner in them a few times... better to just go away.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Viktor Drake, on 11 July 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

[adding spoiler tag to save space]

Spoiler

Well I applaud you for adjusting tactics to deal with siesmic detection, that is what more people need to do but it still appears your complaining about having to adjust tactics.

Honestly, 99% of the problems people complain about can be solved by changing tactics. Sure it harder and/or requires more skill but it is not the games fault if people are lazy or want EZ-mode rampage for their perfered mechs.

For example, my perfered mech is a QD, a 60 ton mech the size of an Atlas and though quick at 98 kph, no where near the speed of most light mech builds. Yet some how, some way I don't seem to have a problem with getting around a flank or ambushing an enemy. Just two nights ago in fact, in a single match I managed to sneak up and core out 2 enemy mechs from the rear. I do it all the time.

Now honestly, if I can do it in a 60 ton QD the size of the Empire State Building, how can it be so hard for light mechs to do the same thing.

Heck I will go one further and turn it all around on any light complaining about siesmic. One of the things that makes my QD so SUCCESSFUL at ambushing and flanking IS seismic sensors. By using seismic for example I can see where the enemy is rather than making blind manuvers. I can also generally determine their movement directions and facing just by watching the minimap which in turn allows me to approach from behind or with some other tactical advantage. Hell siesmic should be considered a godsend for Light mechs simpily because your not going to find yourself jumping or running over a hill only to find the entire enemy team standing there with guns trained on you.

Basically if your in a light mech and NOT using seismic to plan out your approach vectors and lines of attack, then your doing it wrong.

In the end seismic confers just as much advantage if not moreso to a light mech than any other weight class IF the light mechs mount it and IF they actually use it tactically and with skill.

I'm fine with whatever happens to seismic, it is very helpful as you point out about running into an enemy group and figuring out how to split up an enemy force and then run effective flanking maneuvers.

Nevertheless, I have a greater concern in making sure weapons are better balanced. And I keep trying different tactics as often as I can, but there are a lot of skilled players, so there is only so much one can keep trying if you get out gunned.

And tracking mechs to hit them is not hard (even if one can make a mech dance, so to speak), so having trigger discipline and being able to land a high alpha is more where I would like to see improvements in.

For example, with seismic sometimes one could draw enemies away from the battle line assuming they are using seismic, but if one ends up in a commando against a 3 PPC Cataphract, 1 on 1 (with both players at relatively even skill), that CTF pilot has a good chance of landing one lucky shot over a 20 second engagement sending you to spectator mode, while you might get a chance to spread damage across the CTF, as you try to avoid getting hit.

Or if the engagement could then drag on longer, then that 1 on 1 could go to whoever gets an ally involved first, which won't end well for the light, if the light remains engaged or had taken too much damage as a result of trying to preoccupy the Heavy.

In such a situation seismic could help the light, if one sees blips moving towards your position so that one can leave and disengage to try to isolate someone else.

But if the rest of the team is hurting, then it's just gonna drag out the match if you're basically one of the last few left on your team, or if as the light, your team gets the upper hand in the match, then that CTF could be taken out instead and the light was able to do it's job as a harasser successfully.

Seismic can simply accelerate the situations we find ourselves in, since we can often wield very impressive fire power right now, maybe still too impressive, if mechs are thought to be dropping too quickly.

[Goose]

Training Instructor, on 10 July 2013 - 08:36 PM, said:

I've been on light infantry field exercises that featured a few M1A2 Abrams tanks, and any time they were in the area, you could feel it and hear it.

The way I remember it, the West Germans called the Abrams "Whispering Death" in the exercises they played against it…

[Metallis]

Viktor Drake, on 11 July 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

Well I applaud you for adjusting tactics to deal with siesmic detection, that is what more people need to do but it still appears your complaining about having to adjust tactics. Honestly, 99% of the problems people complain about can be solved by changing tactics. Sure it harder and/or requires more skill but it is not the games fault if people are lazy or want EZ-mode rampage for their perfered mechs. For example, my perfered mech is a QD, a 60 ton mech the size of an Atlas and though quick at 98 kph, no where near the speed of most light mech builds. Yet some how, some way I don't seem to have a problem with getting around a flank or ambushing an enemy. Just two nights ago in fact, in a single match I managed to sneak up and core out 2 enemy mechs from the rear. I do it all the time. Now honestly, if I can do it in a 60 ton QD the size of the Empire State Building, how can it be so hard for light mechs to do the same thing. Heck I will go one further and turn it all around on any light complaining about siesmic. One of the things that makes my QD so SUCCESSFUL at ambushing and flanking IS seismic sensors. By using seismic for example I can see where the enemy is rather than making blind manuvers. I can also generally determine their movement directions and facing just by watching the minimap which in turn allows me to approach from behind or with some other tactical advantage. Hell siesmic should be considered a godsend for Light mechs simpily because your not going to find yourself jumping or running over a hill only to find the entire enemy team standing there with guns trained on you. Basically if your in a light mech and NOT using seismic to plan out your approach vectors and lines of attack, then your doing it wrong. In the end seismic confers just as much advantage if not moreso to a light mech than any other weight class IF the light mechs mount it and IF they actually use it tactically and with skill.

I feel what you're saying here. But the element of surprise was a great weapon for lights. It is a great advantage for lightly armored, lightly weaponed light mech who relies on speed and surprise. If the US had seismic sensors during WW2 there would have been no Pearl Harbor. No Why? No surprise.

Since I have started playing back in Jan, it seems that there has been a bullseye on just about everything lights use. When I started in Jan, people were complaining about Streaks, then ECM, then hit boxes, So they adjusted them and threw in for good measure terrain factors that stop or slow lights down. Now you got the Seismic sensor, it's kind of hard not to feel a bit picked on as a chassis.

People complain when a light caps a base in assault and ends their game before they have had a chance to play. Imagine how it feels to get one shot early on in the match and have to ride ***** and watch from the back seat. Soon the only options left for lights are going to be loading ER PPCs and sniping or capping. And who really wants to do just that?

[Goose]

Every time I try to come up with a set of conditions and balances for the gorram thing, it quickly becomes apparent it would be soooo much easier to just remove it.

[Drehl]

oh man.. I'm tired of assault pilots stating that everything is alright and the lighpilots complaining should just l2p.. don't give me that bs-.-.

have you ever played a light on a relatively high lvl? you will realize that you are high enough when the well rounded assault builds, as well as most other lights and mediums are vanishing and almost all assaults you encounter are quad/hexstalkers/miserys and ppc/gauss highlanders (that can hit something.. even lights.. and aren't just terribad wannabes).

play against them for a while (in a lightmech!) and tell me again we should learn to play. most of these guys have seismic. they're not wandering around, far away from the rest of their team waiting to die.. and even when they do, it's hard to kill them because they have this ******* module that makes them aware of my way of approach. one or two hits and I'm dead.
guess what made a lightmech dangerous? a good pilot with situation awareness and the ability to strike from unexpected angles.
the latter is gone. whit HSR for ppcs and balistics the times of circlestrafing have been over. you had to use hit and run to keep succesfully.

as icefang already said.. how should I change my tactics when my effective range is 270m or lower?
use a ppc? never!

@ the guy who said that as a light with seismic you won't run in an entire team facing you with your guns..
without seismic I was able to jump into the enemy team for few seconds without dying because they did not know that I was coming and because of that were not facing me!!!
now I can't even attack a single assault from behind without the risk of becoming oneshotted.

@ the guy with the spider obliterating 4 asssaults:
the spider has some serious hitbox issues... this and only this can make this mech a bigger thread than other light mechs. and even when keeping this in mind... if he really managed to kill 4 assaults (that weren't already cored and had red internals) then he was just far far better then these assauls and therefore SHOULD win against them in a 1vs1 situation.

@ mech cb-value argument... are you serious?

[Accursed Richards]

Training Instructor, on 10 July 2013 - 08:36 PM, said:

It should be less effective when there are tons of mechs making noise, and that's about it.

Sorry guys, 30 ton war machines are easily felt and heard. They're not ninjas. I say this having mastered the spider and still frequently playing it.

I've been on light infantry field exercises that featured a few M1A2 Abrams tanks, and any time they were in the area, you could feel it and hear it.

What did those poor cat girls ever do to you?

[Clit Beastwood]

I use my jump jets a lot in a spider, so I'm only touching the ground occasionally. When I do this, people seem to home in on me less. Just a thought.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Fierostetz, on 11 July 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

I use my jump jets a lot in a spider, so I'm only touching the ground occasionally. When I do this, people seem to home in on me less. Just a thought.

Exactly. Been jumped several times in that mannner with adv seismic. Ways around most everything in the game past synch drops and kill teams. If anyone has a tactic aginst them I would appreciate.

As an aside to my previous 4 assult kill refrence they all had very minimal damage and not one was cored. Fight took near 4 to five minutes and the spider wiped the floor with them. I suck so I would have been the first to go if I was still alive. Got a lot of respect for the spider with a good pilot. I see them as one of the biggest threats ont he feild in a fair fight. By fair I mean cheese builds and alpha boats. As far a seismic goes its better to spend the cbills and get it yourself. Takes a while to get used to it in play and much longer to counter. Its far from any nerf priority in my book.

[Volthorne]

Fierostetz, on 11 July 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

I use my jump jets a lot in a spider, so I'm only touching the ground occasionally. When I do this, people seem to home in on me less. Just a thought.

It's hard to fly 400m in anything not mounting 10 JJs. Just a thought.

[FFSstavros]

As a primarily light/scout pilot I have to get on this bandwagon, sorry.

Between seismic and ALPHA, I'm just not having much fun and definitely not "keeping up with the Joneses" in terms of K/D of any other class.

It is bad enough that I put LRMs on an X-5 just to get some lucky shots in

[Clit Beastwood]

Volthorne, on 11 July 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

It's hard to fly 400m in anything not mounting 10 JJs. Just a thought.

Jet, land, pause while your jets recharge.. run forward a few steps, jet, land pause. sneaky sneaky ninja spider!