132 replies to this topic

[Clit Beastwood]

FFSstavros, on 11 July 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

As a primarily light/scout pilot I have to get on this bandwagon, sorry.

Between seismic and ALPHA, I'm just not having much fun and definitely not "keeping up with the Joneses" in terms of K/D of any other class.

It is bad enough that I put LRMs on an X-5 just to get some lucky shots in

Hm - don't run in straight lines, when you're behind someone and shoot them in the back (which you should be doing), break left since most people turn right when they get back shot. move move move. Spend lots of time in testing grounds doing headshots. If you can keep a laser on-target at 150kph on a mech's head hitbox, you'll notice your overall game improving. Sometimes all you have time to do is wave your lasers across something - this isn't the end of the world, don't slow down or stop just because you may not get a full damage load. Oh, and move move move I played a spider almost exclusively for the first month or so I played the game - once I learned how to survive in that, I was able to survive in equally fast better armored lights. seriously though, testing grounds. The first mech you get to kill in testing grounds is a commando - don't try to kill it, try to take its arms off one at a time at varying ranges. Do high-speed passes. Do it while jump jetting - practice practice practice.

[Gamgee]

I haven't played in a long time now. Just the occasional pop in to see how horrible balance is getting. Every time I go in game it's worse and worse.

[Gamgee]

This is what it's like to be a light in this meta.

[Void Angel]

Captain Stiffy, on 11 July 2013 - 03:34 AM, said:

Oh yes please, let's nerf something else hell let's nerf the whole damn game because some whiner kid is bad.

They will.

What a bunch of ad hominem, straw man bullcrap. Remedial logic coursework is available at your local institute of higher learning. Avail yourself.

Mudhutwarrior, on 11 July 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

This is crazy. I drive and atlas and spiders are still a huge threat. Thing is why spend all that cash for a defensive system when I can just as soon plunk down short money on a lite and be the biggest threat on the battlefeild. Anyone who drives assults with any sense would concour. If your driving a spider and are sad you cant always suprise your victims I have no sympathaty for you. Had a match the other day where a very good spider pilot wiped out 4 assaults. Seismic had no bearing on the fight. Movement and tactics did. It took forever but he won the match for his team. My advice is if you want to drive one of the cheapest mechs in the game and compete with ones costing 10-15 million a pop you need to learn how to drive it. Lite pilots have gotten any threat to them nerfed in this game over and over while enjoing lag protection and messed up hitboxes. It has to stop. Learn to scout and be an asset to your team instead of expecting pgi welfare constantly.

If you are an Atlas pilot and find spiders to be a "huge threat" despite your posession of a sensor that extends beyond the effective range of most light weapons, I have no sympathy for you. Your pitiable attempts to poison the well aren't going to work on me - because I am an Assault pilot with sense, as well as a Spider pilot. Since you'd know this if you read even the second paragraph of my post, the kindest explanation I can proffer is that you think insults will help shore up your utterly indefensible position. The idea that none of the light pilots in this thread, myself included, have bothered to "learn how to drive" our Battlemechs is an absurdity you cannot possibly justify - you're just assuming it's true because you feel it needs to be true in order for your conclusion to be true. This is called "ideological reasoning," and it is not a valid mode of thought. This means you're wrong. Your opinion is unfounded, and even the thought process by which you came to that opinion is incorrect.

Novakaine, on 11 July 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

Jebus ya can't have it both ways.
And not everybody has one hanging off thier lower actuator.
Stop the crybombs before they nerf it into another near useless piece of junk.
Just stop it.

Someone doesn't like having to look behind them, I'll wager. Stop substituting namecalling for thought and lies for reasoning. Just stop it.

Edited by Void Angel, 11 July 2013 - 02:45 PM.

[Void Angel]

Let me be clear here; I do not believe that the Seismic Sensor is game-breaking for Lights. Light chassis are not "dead," nor does a module with a mere 400m range "replace" the scout role - as one poster pointed out (amidst a flood of otherwise incorrect reasoning,) the Seismic Sensor is a powerful addition to the scout role.

Some of you obviously disagree: fine. This is your right, and, like Voltaire, while I may disagree with what you say, I will defend to the death your right to say it. I will not defend, nor should you expect anyone to tolerate, a certain way of expressing your opinion. Disagreement is permissible. Disagreement in the form of namecalling and personal attacks is not.

[Rashhaverak]

Seismic should only work if the mech attempting to use it is stationary. The only way to get an accurate ping is if you have two points of measure sufficiently apart to allow effective triangulation. One sensor implanted in each foot does that just fine. However, when you are picking up and stomping down one or more of those feet, you should loose the ability to effectively detect and triangulate ground based seismic vibrations.

Being able to detect Seismic vibrations while moving at speed is a flaw and causes the sensor to be overpowered. Limiting it to stationary mechs would make it still very useful to mechs, both heavy and light, and effectively balance it.

Edited by Rashhaverak, 11 July 2013 - 02:37 PM.

[Void Angel]

Every time you offer up a "real-life" reason as primary justification for a balance-related change, the ghost of Osama ********* drowns a puppy.

[Corvus Antaka]

yup. we need a scale based on wieght/range detection and a muffle module to hide from the sensor and not make it a must have module.

[Rashhaverak]

Void Angel, on 11 July 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

Every time you offer up a "real-life" reason as primary justification for a balance-related change, the ghost of Osama ********* drowns a puppy.

The real life reasoning is not the primary reason to make seismic a "standing still only" sensor. The primary reason is that it would be an effective fix. Other proposed fixes, such as nerfing the range, are less ideal. It is simply a happy coincidence that the proposed fix actually makes sense and conforms to actual real world physics.

[William Mountbank]

My seismic works just fine 20m up in the air, which says much about the thought behind it.

In terms of how it affects my Spider - well, the ERPPC was always a great choice for that chassis, and now it's the best choice since it really behoves one to stay 400m+ from the enemy herd. Even so, it still takes 5 shots before the average Atlas Pugger starts finding me a threat, and 10 to 15 before I could even get close to a kill from behind. It takes so long to wear an Atlas down that I don't think I've ever finished one that way - either by that time they've steamrollered our team and the other 7 Highlanders turn around to find me, or some Highlander on my team turns up and kills the Atlas from the front in the same time it took for me to get him to yellow armour from behind.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Lights are scouts and harrassers not fighting mechs so this is moot. You all have the speed to get in, stike and get out while illuminating the target for the heavy assaults to move on them. I for one think PGI broke this with their lack of awards for souting roles. Thats really the issue.

Seisemic can be overcome with simple strategy like stop starts to create ghosting on the sensor. In the middle of a fight you cant spend the time to watch the display so if played right it becomes inneffective against a smart player. This is all about lites wanting to charge in with no impact instead of learning how to work around it. Seismic forces the lite pilot to think. Thats the issue here.

[xhrit]

DuoAngel, on 11 July 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

My thoughts: 1) sensor should detect heavier mechs from longer ranges and lighter mechs from shorter ranges - this has to be implemented AFTER and only AFTER hardpoint size restrictions (to prohibit installing PPCs on lights)

There are stock light mechs that mount ppcs. What you are suggesting will never work.

[Lugh]

You guys are going to HATE it when they re-add collision to the game in any form.

[Satan n stuff]

Void Angel, on 10 July 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

OP

You've actually got the best possible light mech to use against seismic sensor, as you can simply jump out of range and as long as your mech doesn't hit anything you won't show up on seismic until you land. You still need to worry about players being able to see you while you jump and a smart player can see which way you jumped but that's only accurate to about 30 degrees and you can just hover to avoid going above cover. You might not make it outside of seismic range in one jump but if the other mech makes a wrong turn you'll be out of range soon enough anyway.

[ICEFANG13]

Lugh, on 12 July 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

You guys are going to HATE it when they re-add collision to the game in any form.

Why? Do you think that living light mechs consistently get within 400m?

BTW, you're gonna hate that 2.0 missile damage killing you. I'm assuming you suck, like you assume we suck, because the game is very much in favor of heavier mechs right now.

Mudhutwarrior, on 12 July 2013 - 03:56 AM, said:

Lights are scouts and harrassers not fighting mechs so this is moot. You all have the speed to get in, stike and get out while illuminating the target for the heavy assaults to move on them. I for one think PGI broke this with their lack of awards for souting roles. Thats really the issue.

Seisemic can be overcome with simple strategy like stop starts to create ghosting on the sensor. In the middle of a fight you cant spend the time to watch the display so if played right it becomes inneffective against a smart player. This is all about lites wanting to charge in with no impact instead of learning how to work around it. Seismic forces the lite pilot to think. Thats the issue here.

Speed to get in and out huh?

Ok so 400m, lets say, you have a real effective range of 90m, and that's 310m you have to get through. Then lets say, even though I'm pretty sure speed is capped at 150, the fastest mech, a Jenner, is going 152.7KPH, which translates to 42.416667 (42.5) m/s. At 310m is takes 7.3 seconds. That's not fast, that's easily long enough for a competent pilot to alpha you.

Oh I forgot, its actually double, since you have to run away. So its 14.6 seconds, almost a quarter minute. Don't worry you have the armor to take the pathetic alpha, lights don't they just die.

Did you just tell people to start stop in a light mech, while they know where you are? Reminds me of what I say (as in they can't hear me) to other lights who stop completely to fight me.

"Oh he knows what he's doing, light mechs, speed advantage? Probably an ace pilot."

[Zolaz]

A light isnt a heavy or assault, so dont play the mech like you are one. Just like in boxing, there are weight classes for a reason. Lights like brawling mediums need to stay out of the thick of things. You stay at the outskirts of the fight and then get on an enemy mechs back and donkey punch it.

If you are smart you hide in the shadow of something that is perceived as a greater threat. Let the Stalker or Jager come out and take the hits. Then you get on his back. Trust me, people are going to be shooting at the Stalker or Jager blasting into them over your Spider.

So, the secret is ... dont go fighting someone bigger than yourself, by yourself. If you are in Spider hell, it is because you put yourself there.

[ICEFANG13]

Zolaz, on 12 July 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

A light isnt a heavy or assault, so dont play the mech like you are one. Just like in boxing, there are weight classes for a reason. Lights like brawling mediums need to stay out of the thick of things. You stay at the outskirts of the fight and then get on an enemy mechs back and donkey punch it.

If you are smart you hide in the shadow of something that is perceived as a greater threat. Let the Stalker or Jager come out and take the hits. Then you get on his back. Trust me, people are going to be shooting at the Stalker or Jager blasting into them over your Spider.

So, the secret is ... dont go fighting someone bigger than yourself, by yourself. If you are in Spider hell, it is because you put yourself there.

Why would you bring a Hunchback that goes 80 when you can bring a more armored more weaponized heavy mech that goes about as fast? Why would you bring a mech that needed speed to flank but takes about 15 seconds of constant detection when he tries to?

I'm also gonna say, that Stalker's a Jagers shouldn't be coming out, both are support firepower mechs, and that's all they are allowed to do. No tanking of any kind.

See how nice that is? Isn't that great for me to tell you what your play style is?

Which mech is the flanker mech? I thought that was Commando and Jenner? Maybe I have it wrong?
"The Jenner's primarily laser armament and phenomenal speed helped to make the the 'Mech extremely well suited as a guerrilla fighter."

[Metallis]

I am going to have to step back a little from my earlier post. But just a little. My opinion was based on incomplete data, meaning that I was on the receiving end of not having a seismic sensor. Being a light pilot using speed and stealth to do my dirt be it scouting, harassing or capping. Not having the seismic sensor put me at a disadvantage. In the past if I was rounding that corner and ran into a group of mechs I at least had a chance to escape being that they were just as surprised as I was.

Last night I bought my seismic sensor for my Commando 2D. And I am here to tell you, I was a scouting god! Not only was I stealth with my ECM but now I had early warning detection well before I was in range of any moving hostiles. I was able to call out target numbers, type and locations well early in the match to give my PUG teams heads up notice and get them in position to attack.

My life expectancy was increased because I was no longer running into a group of mechs around the corner. Hell I was able to find lone strays who were going one on one with one of my teammate and was able to assist in killing the mech. Out of about 10 PUG matches I won 8.That not a bad ratio with a PUG group.

Now I have not run the mod on any of my non-ECM lights yet, so this analysis is not yet complete. I also have not run with my group of friends that I sometimes 4-8 man with. I am very interested to see how that goes

But I will say this about the Seismic...it's too damn powerful!!!! It needs to be tweaked down a bit. I'm a decent light pilot. In the hands of a good light pilot....people would learn to fear lights more.

I just wanted to revise my earlier statement a bit. That lights (with ECM) using seismic sensors are very viable and capable threats if used correctly.

Edited by Metallis, 12 July 2013 - 09:38 AM.

[Void Angel]

Mudhutwarrior, on 12 July 2013 - 03:56 AM, said:

Lights are scouts and harrassers not fighting mechs so this is moot. You all have the speed to get in, stike and get out while illuminating the target for the heavy assaults to move on them. I for one think PGI broke this with their lack of awards for souting roles. Thats really the issue.

Seisemic can be overcome with simple strategy like stop starts to create ghosting on the sensor. In the middle of a fight you cant spend the time to watch the display so if played right it becomes inneffective against a smart player. This is all about lites wanting to charge in with no impact instead of learning how to work around it. Seismic forces the lite pilot to think. Thats the issue here.

Again with the inexplicable assumption that I don't know how to play my chassis, even to the point of suggesting tactics that I actually mention in the original post. Your entire straw man diatribe boils down to, "You're just lazy! you want to "charge in" with no consequences, that's all. It's easy to get around a motion detector that goes out to half of base sensor range, anyway; it's simple! You're just stupid, and can't think up easy tactics like I can." Go sell it to the farm; we're full up on horse manure around here.

Lugh, on 12 July 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

You guys are going to HATE it when they re-add collision to the game in any form.

"Hee haw! Hey, Cletus! Didj'all hear how they got this newfangled modjule what let's 'em see movement out ta half sensor range?"
"Sheeoot, Jebediah, you gonna be hurtin' if they put them thar collisons back in."
"... Cleetus, are you drinkin' anti-freeze again?"
"Hael no, Jeb, I'm drinkin' moonshine!"
"Cletus..."
"Tha' antai-freeze is just fer flavor!"

[Void Angel]

Metallis, on 12 July 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

My life expectancy was increased because I was no longer running into a group of mechs around the corner. Hell I was able to find lone strays who were going one on one with one of my teammate and was able to assist in killing the mech. Out of about 10 PUG matches I won 8.That not a bad ratio with a PUG group.

Now I have not run the mod on any of my non-ECM lights yet, so this analysis is not yet complete. I also have not run with my group of friends that I sometimes 4-8 man with. I am very interested to see how that goes

But I will say this about the Seismic...it's too damn powerful!!!! It needs to be tweaked down a bit. I'm a decent light pilot. In the hands of a good light pilot....people would learn to fear lights more.

I just wanted to revise my earlier statement a bit. That lights (with ECM) using seismic sensors are very viable and capable threats if used correctly.

Holy Carp! Someone modified their opinion on the internet!

Seriously, though, I agree that the module is very powerful for lights, and is an excellent scouting tool as well (no more getting /faced in the tunnel before I can get out of Dodge.)

I also agree that it's just too useful - especially against lights. Eventually, the scouting phase is over, and it's time to fight - lights have limited firepower and durability in this phase, but lots of speed and agility. These factors necessitate flanking and hit-and-run tactics, which is what the Seismic Sensor cripples.