1084 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

Your temporary fix only lasted four months.

[Nebelfeuer]

Oh not sure but does killing yourself by overheat score a point for the enemy team? If not you might want to make it so to prevent abuse of the mechanic in a game that goes over the full timespan.

100%heat threshold is a good idea. besides.

[Orzorn]

Please, for the love of ComStar, just try out increasing PPC heat to 10, and ERPPC heat to 15 before doing this.

This system will cause far more problems than it solves, I believe, as people can just fall back to things like 2 ERPPC, 1 Gauss and other sniping classics. I doubt the extra firing of one more ERPPC will make up for the 12 extra heat we would have if ERPPCs were 15 heat. We're going to see 3 ERPPC/ 1 Gauss Highlanders and all that other stuff just to avoid the heat of 4 ERPPC.

And its not as though Large Lasers needed the nerf. They were in a good place and felt like strong, but not always ideal weapons. SRMs, in their current state, certainly didn't need the nerf. If having 2.0 damage is a bit too much, then just individually raise the heat on them.

This system adds another layer of undue complexity where none is needed. Please rethink it.

[Ozric]

Master Q, on 11 July 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

The problem is CONVERGENCE.

in your opinion.

Repeating the same things over and over is spam.

[Dr B00t]

DeathofSelf, on 11 July 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

What about the stalkers that mount 2 PPCs and 2 ERPPCs? Can they still fire all 4 without penalty?

no...read the new post paul made about heat threshold

[Sable]

so many pages so this might have been asked already but will the awesome be receiving a mech quirk to allow for the additional ppc without a heat penalty or is it just screwed now with extra heat?

Also when the Warhawk (masakari for the freebirths) clan mech comes out its primary variant has 4 er ppcs.... will this also receive some kind of quirk to allow for its 4 pccs without the exponential penalty or is that pretty much screwed now too?

Edited by Sable, 11 July 2013 - 03:15 PM.

[Dr B00t]

arg....o well..glad steam sales are up and running...

are you frakking kidding me? 2 months of junk srm's and you finally get around to thinking about a hotfix?




way to be "aggressive"

p.s. hotfix means usually a fix done quickly in case you haven't heard the term before

[Varrin Coursca]

Make 2.0 damage/missile permanent + hit detection. The ERPPC shouldn't be a superior brawling weapon to an SRM6.

While you're at it, fix pulse lasers, please.

[Varrin Coursca]

It would appear you, gentlemen, are the ones on an island. Your heat scale idea isn't helpful and I think a large number of your players from a variety of skill levels have all said this. Please, start listening to the very intelligent and well-articulated suggestions in the Game Balance sub-forum instead of making a completely arbitrary game mechanic that doesn't solve the core problem: convergence.

[Raso]

So what you're saying is there's still little reason to use anything other than a few PPCs and Gauss and that, further more, you guys made it so that the combo of 2 ERPPC + 1 Gauss (which is already used by a majority of players) is utterly unaffected?

Bravo. You guys are truly the kinds of weapon balance. Game of the year, right here, guys! Best in Show! Before you know it PGI will be using their 1337 programming skillz to land the first manned mission on the Mars. God speed, PGI, may your prowess soar like no one before and paint with all of the colors of the wind.

[Talrich]

Re: Heat - Heat penalties do not address the problem.
Please consider a comprehensive solution: http://mwomercs.com/...oats-and-clans/
Alternately please consider a solution that addresses damage, not heat: http://mwomercs.com/...-20s-and-gauss/

Re: SRMs - Too bad hit detection issues will mean a change now, and a change later, but it seems silly to leave them weak due to a flaw elsewhere. I don't have Catapults, but I almost miss seeing A1's anymore.

Re: Heat damage at 100% - This doesn't affect me much, but I would have liked to see severe damage penalties applied at 120%, rather than negligible damage taken starting at 100%. Still, that's really the least of the game's problems.

[Milocinia]

Yes finally! These max alpha penalties look pretty good and the game desperately needs this.

Just need some fine tuning to the movement archetype system and some directional momentum with jump jets (hey even the animation isn't directly vertical) and you're getting there. That and also a bit of a buff to armour values or at least giving FF increased protection to make it worth having.

And for all those PPCwarriors telling me to "adapt or die" when I complain at you for being a cookie cutter player, well shut your whining and adapt or die ok? You're obviously not smart enough to create a heat efficient mech with sustained DPS like the rest of us.

[MischiefSC]

Side note -

The 12 v 12 environment makes the PPC sniper meta drastically more significant. You can't brawl a 12 man horde and 8 or 9 snipers just dissolve people in the open. A passable PPC lineup right now is simply unapproachable. LRMs, conversely, are less so - more AMS. I watched a flowing river of LRMs evaporate as it passed over 8 or 10 mechs worth of AMS to drop 1 or 2 LRMs onto a 6x PPC Stalker putting the finishing touch on what the seething row of poptarts in front of him was doing.

Just bump PPC heat. Alpha or not it's out of whack now with projectile speed, damage on hit, weight to damage ratio, etc. etc. etc. PPC/ERPPC, just move their heat up. The test server has really hammered that home.

[Corison]

Armatures, yet more random 'fixes" to a system you broke to start out with. Address the real issues, stop putting poorly thought-out band ****. Fix the pinpoint targeting in a game never designed for it.

[Scarcer]

I'm all happy and giddy with all the work PGI is doing; but I do NOT approve of the new weapon stacking counter measures.

Sure they may help, but this is evidence that you're incapable of properly balancing the weapons.

In the first place bring high heat back to the PPC. It's just way too accessible as it is.

The mech's are already doing double the damage they are supposed too.

Otherwise...

Asside from SSRMS, the weapons were better balanced pre-open beta.

If you really want to play with numbers to avoid boating;
give PPC's etc more heat discharge, while at the same time increase the rate of heat dissipation.

What you should see is 2 ER-PPC's filling up 3/4 the thermal capacity, but ready to fire again in 4 seconds.

These funky stacking punishment numbers are a lazy way out.

[Lindonius]

OMG you're actually going through with this??? I thought you had come to your senses and realised that this mechanic is completely counter-intuitive for the new players that you so desperately crave?

[redacted]

[redacted]

PS - I especially love how you released a "champion mech" that you charged real money for and then nerfed it into uselessness less than a month later. Well played.

PPS - I also absolutely GUARANTEE that you're gonna cattle truck this up in it's implementation as well and that we see hordes of heat issues with weapon loadouts that are supposed to be unaffected by your new clown shoes system.

Edited by miSs, 13 July 2013 - 10:42 AM.
ad hominem

[Nebelfeuer]

Sable, on 11 July 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

so many pages so this might have been asked already but will the awesome be receiving a mech quirk to allow for the additional ppc without a heat penalty or is it just screwed now with extra heat?

Also when the Warhawk (masakari for the freebirths) clan mech comes out its primary variant has 4 er ppcs.... will this also receive some kind of quirk to allow for its 4 pccs without the exponential penalty or is that pretty much screwed now too?

You might want to get rid of the idea that a mech that carries a big weapon loadout is supposed to fire it repeatedly together.
Look at the stockloadouts and you will notice that most mechs are not capable of alphastriking repeatedly without getting heatissues. Though the method is differend the result will be closer to original rules in effect fo a good part of the weapons.

The current aproach may not be the best but it at least goes into the right direction and at least incentives to try differend loadouts then pure boating and pinpoint alphastrikers. It will probaly need a few adjustments like the ER/PPC fix anounced for the later patch and AC/gauss intergration and a few value adjustments but it might work out in the end.
An aproach closer to TT rules(heatchart+values and/or convergence) might solve the desired probles more efficiently though.

[arghmace]

To those of you who fear that 2.0 SRM damage will make the SplatCat king of the hill again:

1. In the past SRM's did 2.5 + splash which meant something between 3.0 - 15.0 dmg per missile depending on the mech you were shooting at.

2. We used to have a missile formation that could hit a single location. But now it is completely impossible for all the missiles to hit one location regardless of range.

3. Back then we didn't have BoomJagers and all these pop tarts. Was even Stalker introduced yet?

4. Back then PPC's weren't nearly as overbuffed as now

5. Back then HSR wasn't implemented, which made all long range projectiles bad.

6. EVEN back then when SplatCat did huge damage due to splash bug they were easy to kill from range by any player of any worth.


Unless PPC's are balanced down (this heat scale mess does nothing of the sort) they will still be way better than SRM's even after setting the dmg to 2.0.

Edited by arghmace, 11 July 2013 - 04:07 PM.

[keith]

Nebelfeuer, on 11 July 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

You might want to get rid of the idea that a mech that carries a big weapon loadout is supposed to fire it repeatedly together.
Look at the stockloadouts and you will notice that most mechs are not capable of alphastriking repeatedly without getting heatissues. Though the method is differend the result will be closer to original rules in effect fo a good part of the weapons.

The current aproach may not be the best but it at least goes into the right direction and at least incentives to try differend loadouts then pure boating and pinpoint alphastrikers. It will probaly need a few adjustments like the ER/PPC fix anounced for the later patch and AC/gauss intergration and a few value adjustments but it might work out in the end.
An aproach closer to TT rules(heatchart+values and/or convergence) might solve the desired probles more efficiently though.

this is not TT this is mechwarrior. i don't want 10 sec turns with dice rolls. i want my pin point shots, my skills to be shown. if i miss it because i had poor aim. this system forces u into a play style because of penalties. THAT IS WRONG. if i could go up behind paul and smack him upside the head and say bad, i would. this is a horrible system. has been said before and it being said again. PGI is being dumb if they go through with this.

[EchoMike]

Nothing about increasing PPC/ER PPC heat? Common give at least +1, just 1!